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Thread: New camera system from Leica ?

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    Arrow New camera system from Leica ?

    Could this really be true ?

    Link => New camera system from Leica

    source: leicarumors.com

    Bart ...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Could this really be true ?

    Link => New camera system from Leica

    source: leicarumors.com

    I believe this is going to happen. I made mention of this in my "Open Letter" thread from a couple of months back... The Q has been successful. The T system was not as successful, depite some really innovative design concepts. I think the new system makes perfect sense, but I am doubtful that it will be a RF system, but rather an alterative. Will they call it an M, though? Hmmm....Fingers crossed that it'll happen. My hope is that it takes M lenses with 6 bit coding to make everything play well; that it has a sensor similar to the Q's sensor. And if Leica's smart ,they start adding AF motors to their M lenses or optics, to keep the lenses compact and recoup all of the tech and R&D that's gone into manufacturing M lenses. I would not be surprised if M lenses of the future can be both RF coupled to a traditional RF and work on an AF mount...like I said, fingers crossed!
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Indeed, no RF system - that wouldn't make sense.
    But a FFAFILC that takes both AF- and M-lenses ? Sounds like a dream made in heaven !

    All the best.
    Bart ...
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Will consider a 2nd or 3rd iteration - to be safe.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Wouldn't surprise me if something appears along this line especially after being the thought that has gone into the Q. For me the problem though will probably be the cost of this new system and as much as i maybe really great and dare I say it innovative having just gone into semiretirement will probably be out of my price range.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Indeed, no RF system - that wouldn't make sense.
    But a FFAFILC that takes both AF- and M-lenses ? Sounds like a dream made in heaven !
    Maybe not a mechanical RF system per se (which I agree would be totally unnecessary) but perhaps a pop-up EVF (with Leica Q resolution) to provide live view and/or focus peaking and some form Electronic RF for manual focusing (should you need it) as Fuji has implemented bringing the best worlds of both (although focus peaking may be the new RF so even an electronic RF may not be necessary but who knows). Or, something the clever elves in Wetzlar have cooked up altogether with some help from Panasonic to implement it.

    I'm sure folks like Sean Reid and Jonathan Slack have been secretly putting this concept through its paces!

    We'll find out in time...

    (Until then we can sing, "See you...in Sep-tem-berrrrr"

    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    It is what I've expected to come along. When has always been the question, to me anyway.

    That said, I'm so delighted with the M-P, X, M4-2 ... and hopefully the MM246 soon ... I don't know that it will affect me much one way or the other for the next several years.

    I enjoy new cameras and lenses a lot. I enjoy photography a lot more than that.

    G

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It is what I've expected to come along. When has always been the question, to me anyway.

    That said, I'm so delighted with the M-P, X, M4-2 ... and hopefully the MM246 soon ... I don't know that it will affect me much one way or the other for the next several years.

    I enjoy new cameras and lenses a lot. I enjoy photography a lot more than that.

    G
    Might our friend Double Negative be correct? He posted a few months ago:

    http://lavidaleica.com/content/future-leica-m-cometh
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Might our friend Double Negative be correct? He posted a few months ago:

    http://lavidaleica.com/content/future-leica-m-cometh
    One other thought is that Leica will bring back the R system....but that'd be a stretch as well...
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Please also take into account that announced this year does not necessarily mean that it also will be delivered this year...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Might our friend Double Negative be correct? He posted a few months ago:

    http://lavidaleica.com/content/future-leica-m-cometh
    If this is true and the camera is priced around the current Q (or better yet A7RII), I'll pre-order the damn thing.

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    Cool Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    They regularly announce new cameras, but a new complete system would be a major. Kinda like golf there are lots of tournaments few majors, but the annoument of a new major is news. However it would only be news to me if its to quote Bill Gates don't show me something I've seen , show me something I've never heard about! That's an announcement I would consider to be news.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    One other thought is that Leica will bring back the R system....but that'd be a stretch as well...
    Yes, it would be.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    The R system never really left...it just mutated into the S system!

    An interchangeable lens system based more on AF and modern technology makes sense to me...I think the M system is becoming increasingly untenable for Leica...as the resolution of the sensors grow, the ability to create a mechanical rangefinder and lens system with the necessary precision and focus accuracy is a daunting and expensive task...it is hard enough to peg maximum sharpness every time on the M9 (and I am pretty good at it!), but on a 36-50mp M body it would be quite a task...having live view can be helpful, but the RF will remain the main method of working, and few people's eyes are good enough to accurately focus the sharpest lenses wide open on very high MP bodies. Even with the S and a SLR viewfinder, I find that the AF system is more accurate than my (still fairly young) eyes. This is assuming perfect calibration of the rangefinder and perfect matching between the lens and body. Those tolerances are really tough to achieve, especially if you imagine a future M with the 50mm APO Summicron and a 35-50mp body.


    They are also probably noticing more and more of their customers are being attracted to using their lenses on cameras like the Sony A7 series, even though they often don't work very well. I would not be surprised if they made a camera that would take a series of new AF lenses like the one in the Q, while also providing a good adaptability for M lenses. It would also have a sensor that used microlenses or some other technology to keep the performance of the M lenses up to native standard (M lenses work extremely well on the T for example...none of the edge issues they have on Alpha bodies). The M series will continue, but probably in the way that the film M's now work. They are still available, but not really being updated. I would not be too surprised if they announce another M after the current one, and then let that be the last one, at least with a fully mechanical rangefinder and MF lenses.

    Anyway, I don't have any secret knowledge, but something like this happening seems like it is in the cards...if not now, then within a few years.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Could this really be true ?

    Link => New camera system from Leica

    source: leicarumors.com

    This seems quite easy. Just make a Leica Q with an M mount. Add AF lenses.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    When I saw the thread title, my first thought was: "YES!....they are releasing a digital R System with modern AF lenses....finally!! :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    The R system never really left...it just mutated into the S system!
    As one of the diehards who still has a nice collection of R series lenses and R cameras, I wish I could agree with you Stuart. I would love to own a Leica S and if R lenses could be used on a S body I might actually have saved my $$ to get one, but of course, that's not possible.

    No, I think that the Leica R system (a real 35mm R system) is dead and gone (but not forgotten).

    Gary
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    They are also probably noticing more and more of their customers are being attracted to using their lenses on cameras like the Sony A7 series, ...
    Really? That is news!

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    When I saw the thread title, my first thought was: "YES!....they are releasing a digital R System with modern AF lenses....finally!! :-)



    As one of the diehards who still has a nice collection of R series lenses and R cameras, I wish I could agree with you Stuart. I would love to own a Leica S and if R lenses could be used on a S body I might actually have saved my $$ to get one, but of course, that's not possible.

    No, I think that the Leica R system (a real 35mm R system) is dead and gone (but not forgotten).

    Gary
    Well, I think it is basically the same case as Canon abandoning FD completely when they went to EF. It was a painful transition for many and alienated a lot of customers, but ultimately it worked for the brand. I think Leica looked at the market and felt that making a premium SLR would work better for them if they if they could more easily differentiate themselves from Canon and Nikon. The Leica R system was a hard sell for many, particularly at the end...costing more and having lower resolution, smaller sensors than what Canon was doing at the time, and without AF to boot. The R lenses of course were spectacular, and the bodies much more enjoyable to use on film, but taking the system into the future required a fairly radical change. In making the S system, they did that. Building it from the ground up allowed them to make it much better than it would have been had it been based around the R mount, which was designed fifty years ago. Now the S system is facing a few problems that the R faced back in the day...(higher cost for lower resolution and lower technical specs than their Canon/Sony competitors), but hopefully they will sort it out quickly.

    As much as I love the M, I think it probably needs a similar treatment. I would love to see the traditional M mount continue in an MP style series, but I think Leica would do very well to take what they have learned in the S, T and Q systems and apply it to the M.

    Vivek -- is that sarcasm because people have been adapting lenses for a long time, or sarcasm because they do not work well on the alpha series? I am not saying that Leica was not aware of it before, but it is reaching catastrophic levels these days...
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Stuart, it is sarcasm (not directed at you) and I agree that catastrophic level was breached a while back.

    They lost Doug Herr. That ought to tell something.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    When I saw the thread title, my first thought was: "YES!....they are releasing a digital R System with modern AF lenses....finally!! :-)



    As one of the diehards who still has a nice collection of R series lenses and R cameras, I wish I could agree with you Stuart. I would love to own a Leica S and if R lenses could be used on a S body I might actually have saved my $$ to get one, but of course, that's not possible.

    No, I think that the Leica R system (a real 35mm R system) is dead and gone (but not forgotten).

    Gary
    R Lenses got a new life and appreciation thanks to the Sony A7R and now the A7RII.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    R Lenses got a new life and appreciation thanks to the Sony A7R and now the A7RII.
    ...and Leitax. Can't forget those people.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    R Lenses got a new life and appreciation thanks to the Sony A7R and now the A7RII.
    "Speaking" as a recent purchaser of an a7II, show me an interchangeable-lens Q with the option of using R lenses with proper full-aperture metering and auto-diaphragm and you'll have my attention.
    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    I am afraid that is a tough request for the moment as you suspect.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I am afraid that is a tough request for the moment as you suspect.
    Technically it's not. An adapter with a ring motor for the diaphragm lever, aperture sensing levers translated to an electrical signal transmitted to the body, power to the adapter for the motor. The challenge is commercial, not technical.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    I am eagerly looking forward to Ming' reviews.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am eagerly looking forward to Ming' reviews.
    Myself, I am looking forward to Jono's, Ming's, Sean Reid's, Steve Huff's, and LuLa's takes...all are usually informative and give a well rounded perspective. The only issue that I have with Ming's reviews are that he makes every camera produce beautiful, crisp images.

    All of that said, I do hope that Leica has a few interesting cards up their sleeve. Though I agree, if they are to produce a mirrorless ILC lens camera with AF, I would hope that they'd allow it to adapt M lenses, and not just R lenses....I only worry that if they bulk it up too much to keep lens size small, the flange distance will not permit m lens use...fingers crossed, and hopefully Leica comes prepared to innovate and maintain its marketspace while providing us with exceptional tools.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Stuart, it is sarcasm (not directed at you) and I agree that catastrophic level was breached a while back.

    They lost Doug Herr. That ought to tell something.
    Vivek, I wasn't aware Doug had moved onto something else. Do you know what he switched to?

    - Marc

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Vivek, I wasn't aware Doug had moved onto something else. Do you know what he switched to?

    - Marc

    I believe he is now also using a Sony A7II with a Nikkor AIS lens, or something close to that.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Will consider a 2nd or 3rd iteration - to be safe.
    WOW - that is fascinating news!
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Myself, I am looking forward to Jono's, Ming's, Sean Reid's, Steve Huff's, and LuLa's takes...all are usually informative and give a well rounded perspective. The only issue that I have with Ming's reviews are that he makes every camera produce beautiful, crisp images.
    But perhaps that's the point - reviewing cameras on the basis of their image quality really is like angels dancing on the heads of pins - of course, they're all slightly different, but given a similar format it seems to me that it's definitely 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I think that the facilities ergonomics and usability is much more relevant . . . . but of course everyone has different requirements.

    All this makes it difficult for reviewers to be relevant . . . . .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I believe he is now also using a Sony A7II with a Nikkor AIS lens, or something close to that.
    I'm not sure that he's all that happy about it though - I reckon a suitable Leica system would bring him back pretty quickly!

    All the best
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Doug is using a Canon FD 500/4.5

    john
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    The only issue that I have with Ming's reviews are that he makes every camera produce beautiful, crisp images.

    I wish I could get slammed like that.
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    I wish I could get slammed like that.
    Me Too

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Vivek, I wasn't aware Doug had moved onto something else. Do you know what he switched to?

    - Marc
    Like K-H said, he is shooting with an A7 II with Canon Lenses and others.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post

    All of that said, I do hope that Leica has a few interesting cards up their sleeve. Though I agree, if they are to produce a mirrorless ILC lens camera with AF, I would hope that they'd allow it to adapt M lenses, and not just R lenses....I only worry that if they bulk it up too much to keep lens size small, the flange distance will not permit m lens use...fingers crossed, and hopefully Leica comes prepared to innovate and maintain its marketspace while providing us with exceptional tools.
    I would guess it is the T 's registry just like what Sony did with their E mount.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Me Too
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I believe he is now also using a Sony A7II with a Nikkor AIS lens, or something close to that.
    I'm using a Sony a7II with R lenses and a Canon FD 500mm f/4.5 L. If the new Leica is anywhere near compatible with R lenses I expect to be carrying a lot less weight in my wallet (not that it's heavy now).

    The R8/DMR has put on a lot of weight recently and the a7II's IBIS, EFC and zebras are very handy. It takes me a while to fully get into a camera's groove and with the recent bad air quality, drought and seasonal lull in wildlife activity I haven't had as much practice with it as I'd like. The a7II is a good camera, and the potential for excellent image quality is there. The Canon 500mm L is for those times when I can't get close enough to use the 280 APO.

    Anna's Hummingbird photo made with a7II & Canon FD 500mm f/4.5 L:


    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    It's hotting up ... Leica SL (Typ 601) to be Announced Soon

    source: digicame-info

    I like in particular this statement:
    High ISO performance, probably the best in the industry , better than Sony a7S ?
    Bart ...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    $8,000 is a lot of cash for a first generation Leica digital camera.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    $8,000 is a lot of cash for a first generation Leica digital camera.
    You forget the bling factor though Vivek - people have to pony up for bling - I'm wetting my pants just thinking about coughing up 50-60K for a new range of autofocus M glass/image stabilization/EVF hybrid and all the the gizmos that I don't have now - an are really negatively impacting on my typical shooting experience - my cat and dog are getting prepped now for all the shots I have planned - sheeesh I might need to buy a new Porsche to match the set!! Well of course I do...

    You know - I threw out all the photographs I ever made with old gear - when Sony brought out their wiz bangers- they all somehow were so last years photography ...shameful to have to post pics whose metadata showed just out of sync with what you have to have to make a decent shot!
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  42. #42
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    $8,000 is a lot of cash for a first generation Leica digital camera.
    $8k - Just a guess I think , still - it won't be reasonably priced for sure.
    BTW - what is 'Auto Focus in Camera' ? Some kind of screw-driver mechanism la Pentax ?

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Unless possibly its autofocus is ala Contax AX body where the film plane (or in this case the digital sensor/platform) moves back and forth to achieve focus. If this was the case, any lens mounted would achieve focus this way and therefore almost any lens mounted would in effect become an AF lens.

    Body though I suspect would be rather chunky as was the AX although the Contax worked splendidly. Even allowed most lenses to focus closer than its usual minimum focusing distance, often into macro territory.

    If Leica could pull something like this off that was both ergonomic and within a reasonably priced range, I suspect they'd please a lot of people. As it is, its probably wishful thinking (and some pipe dreaming).

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    I think that will become just another very expensive system from Leica. Why in all the world should they suddenly change, especially if it is true what we all expect - FF, mirrorless with excellent EVF, great sensor like Q, Af lenses with Leica quality etc.

    But what will turn me down is when they start again like with the T system - new body and 4 initial lenses, lot of promises for more glass and then - NOTHING ....

    Just my 5c

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    The T is an oddball, so is the Q.
    Perhaps they've got it right this time with the SL !

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Unless possibly its autofocus is ala Contax AX body where the film plane (or in this case the digital sensor/platform) moves back and forth to achieve focus. If this was the case, any lens mounted would achieve focus this way and therefore almost any lens mounted would in effect become an AF lens.
    Dave (D&A)
    There was a heated but not very well-informed debate in the Olympus forum about how the promised firmware coming for the E-M1 will implement focus bracketing (automatically!). A 5-axis image stabilization system has to have enough actuator degrees of freedom to also move the imaging chip in the z-direction, although there is no need for this "6-th axis" in image stabilization at fixed focus. And it was eventually noticed that the chip has to move by as much as the lens would move to achieve a range of focal settings, and this for the longer lenses could be a cm or so, not easy to accommodate in a narrow camera body. How much motion did the Contax AC achieve? over what range of distances could it focus this way?

    scott

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    I know it is an old debate but I just have to say it: I just wish so much it would have an OVF. But I am afraid it will have one of those TV-viewfinders.
    I can tolerate EVf in small cameras like the T where we dont have enough space/room for an OVF.
    But for a FF camera...my dream would be a downscaled Leica S.

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Unless possibly its autofocus is ala Contax AX body where the film plane (or in this case the digital sensor/platform) moves back and forth to achieve focus. If this was the case, any lens mounted would achieve focus this way and therefore almost any lens mounted would in effect become an AF lens.

    Body though I suspect would be rather chunky as was the AX although the Contax worked splendidly. Even allowed most lenses to focus closer than its usual minimum focusing distance, often into macro territory.

    If Leica could pull something like this off that was both ergonomic and within a reasonably priced range, I suspect they'd please a lot of people. As it is, its probably wishful thinking (and some pipe dreaming).

    Dave (D&A)
    Hmm, I wonder if it'd be that bulky given that it probably won't have a mirror box.

    - Marc
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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    There was a heated but not very well-informed debate in the Olympus forum about how the promised firmware coming for the E-M1 will implement focus bracketing (automatically!). A 5-axis image stabilization system has to have enough actuator degrees of freedom to also move the imaging chip in the z-direction, although there is no need for this "6-th axis" in image stabilization at fixed focus. And it was eventually noticed that the chip has to move by as much as the lens would move to achieve a range of focal settings, and this for the longer lenses could be a cm or so, not easy to accommodate in a narrow camera body. How much motion did the Contax AC achieve? over what range of distances could it focus this way?

    scott
    I've found an informative article that mentions a movement of 10 mm.
    Link here

    source: photo.net
    Last edited by Knorp; 24th September 2015 at 23:24. Reason: typo in link corrected
    Bart ...

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    Re: New camera system from Leica ?

    Interesting, and complicated. Your link didn't work right for me. Maybe this is better:http://photo.net/equipment/contax/ax
    Article from 1998!

    scott
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