Wide Angle shooting M9 V M240 - experiences appreciated

[Godfrey]

Godfrey, I'm happy with my SonyA7R - as long as I use Sony lenses - sure I have a Sony to M adaptor- but I get the same file from M9 using 35/50/70/90 lenses and worse files when using 28/21...don't get all the angst about shutter this and that problems with the Sony tbh - but then again anyone who shoots tech cameras or MF clunkers is probably used to a loud shutter ...

well you are one who says that less problems with wides on 240 than M9 ..so that is a different input

The shutter sound wasn't the issue with the A7 for me. The overall awkwardness and feel of the camera bugged me, and the viewfinder was only "pretty good", not great like the Olympus E-M1. I just didn't like it all that much.

Regarding the bolded bit above, I have less problems with the wide lenses I have used (Color Skopar 21, 28, 35, Ultron 28/2, Nikkor 18/3.5 AI-S, Leica Summilux 35 v2) on the M-P than I had using the same lenses on the M9. That's all I've got and had to work with, I can't answer for any others. The Elmar-M 24 in particular I didn't have when I had the M9, but it performs beautifully on the M-P; I've since sold the Color Skopar 21 and Ultron 28.

G

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Hi Scott and thanks for your reply - although I have to say I don't know what an SX28 or the other Leica lenses are that you refer to? Mate I am an old school Leica shooter so I own Summilux/Summicron/ Elmar/Elmarit named lenses...LOL
In the photo I am looking at what F/stop and what focus point at what ISO?
I see definite softness/smearing in the right hand side wall bricks going backwards from the viewer - so that is why I ask what f/stop and where was the focus point.

Thanks for your input - much appreciated

-Pete

Sorry, posted in haste. This is shot with the recently introduced 28 Summilux, which has floating elements for close work and all sorts of Karbe team magic. I shot at f/2.8 and focussed on the lettering on the walls of the diner (or perhaps on the sign on top which is a few feet
further back. At 2.8 I wasn't worried about the deep bricks, but I wanted to catch the signs and balloons and the sidewalk texture in the foreground, and it did that pretty well.

SX for Summilux and SEM for SuperElmar are common shorthand for the newest 21, 24, 28 lenses, and the 18 is called a SuperElmar as well, although it renders more sloppily than the 21 and 24.

scott

PS: If anyone knows how to make the original as well as the web-sized version of a shot publlc in flickr, please let me know. You can't test links from your own id with flickr, as it lets me do things that an outside viewer will not be allowed. I load groups of pics into the "camera roll" and then select from them to form albums. Albums are supposed to be public, no?

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Peter
Did not pay enough attention to your comments to realize you are not a landscape kind of guy. Sorry. For street I love the 35 FLE first and foremost followed by either the 50 or if needed the 28. Had the cron but now like the Elmarit 28/2.8 for its size. Friends say the new 28 Lux is dynamite, but a bit pricy. I have the 21 lux and very much like it for certain street uses. This is but one example.

View attachment 94213

I love street and find the challenges enormous, but that's why I like it so much.


http://blog.leica-camera.com/photog...y-and-unpredictability-in-street-photography/

I recently sold my P45+ and V setup to migrate to the 645Z and have not regretted the move, but I always come back to a Leica either M-P or M246. I am getting nice landscape results from old glass on the M246-especially my old 90/2.8 225g Tele-Elmarit even though I often use the 90/2.8 Elmarit-M more often on the M-P. I will try the Sumarron 35/2.8 next which should lend itself to good street shooting, but perhaps the silver look could attract attention.

Lovely picture, great light on both faces, and it makes the point about rendering a scene in depth -- it's not just about sharpness.

BTW, when you were using the P45+ as a back on Hasselblad V's, did you try the SWC body? That's an awesome combination.

scott

 

[algrove]

Yes, I had the SWC and 503CW for the P45+ back. SWC was my go to landscape MF camera. Compact and stunning quality even in today's world.

Regarding the image above I focused as fast as I could in the bench graffiti before the scene changed and one or both looked at me.

 

[rich_]

My Voigtlander 15mm v2 shows more magenta corners on my M240 compared to my old M9. But the liveview really helps with framing. I don't use my external VFs anymore.

 

[Seascape]

Yes, I had the SWC and 503CW for the P45+ back. SWC was my go to landscape MF camera. Compact and stunning quality even in today's world.

Regarding the image above I focused as fast as I could in the bench graffiti before the scene changed and one or both looked at me.

Interesting to hear your comments on the P45+ with a SWC.

I have a P45 and have tried it on 2 copies of SWC's and in both cases the IQ at the centre to about 2/3rd's of the way out was fabulous, but the outer third of the image got quite soft. I have read elsewhere that the P45 sized sensor and the SWC weren't a good match, and my experience seemed to confirm that.

I must say that I loved the compactness of the kit, it just felt so right for walk around street shooting, and on a medium format digital sensor…….very attractive :thumbup:

 

[Godfrey]

Example of 'Lux 35 v2 on the M-P:

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/27485-fun-w-digital-m-images-post655077.html#post655077

This lens produces magic.

G

 

[jrp]

Live view will change your life if you are using wide angle lenses, more so, if you wear glasses.

 

[PeterA]

Example of 'Lux 35 v2 on the M-P:

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/27485-fun-w-digital-m-images-post655077.html#post655077

This lens produces magic.

G

Nice photograph Godfrey - don't know if the 'magic' you refer to is the subject matter/memories as much as the lens though ..?

 

[PeterA]

Live view will change your life if you are using wide angle lenses, more so, if you wear glasses.

Glad to hear you enjoy live view functionality but for me it isn't a big deal for hand held shooting - in fact more of a distraction in my experience!

 

[PeterA]

Interesting to hear your comments on the P45+ with a SWC.

I have a P45 and have tried it on 2 copies of SWC's and in both cases the IQ at the centre to about 2/3rd's of the way out was fabulous, but the outer third of the image got quite soft. I have read elsewhere that the P45 sized sensor and the SWC weren't a good match, and my experience seemed to confirm that.

I must say that I loved the compactness of the kit, it just felt so right for walk around street shooting, and on a medium format digital sensor…….very attractive :thumbup:

OT - but an Alpa + 35Schneider on a 30-40 megapixel back delivers better edge to edge performance than the equally sexy looking SWC combo:thumbup: To be expected though the Zeiss Biogon lens wasn't formulated for digital capture and teh inevitable scrutiny at pixel level...After 40 megapixels we enter the world of mucking around as far as the 35 or wider LF lenses go..Still - what a sexy combo eh?

 

[Godfrey]

Example of 'Lux 35 v2 on the M-P:

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/27485-fun-w-digital-m-images-post655077.html#post655077

This lens produces magic.

Nice photograph Godfrey - don't know if the 'magic' you refer to is the subject matter/memories as much as the lens though ..?

In this technical discussion thread, I was referring to the way this lens renders out-of-focus vs in-focus elements of the scene. Wide open is a tiny bit soft and flarey, but at lens openings from f/2 to f/4 the rendering seems very sharp with tremendous dimensionality. At full resolution, subjects seem to be in a 3D space, to my eye.

The subject matter/memories of this photo are vivid too, but I think the technical qualities of the lens' imaging are exceptional as well.

G

 

[silver92b]

I don't have experience with the M9, but I do have a good bit of experience shooting with wide and ultra wide angle lenses with the M240. The 35mmf2 ASPH 'cron and the 28mm f2.8 Elmarit are wonderful with the M240. The interesting thing is the results with the CV 24mm Color Snapshot and the CV 15mm F4.5... In B&W they wonderful from wide open to whatever step down you choose. Basically, set them properly and they are in focus from very close to infinity. With the EVF you can see exactly what is in the picture. Shooting in color is problematic because of the magenta fringing along the sides
The M240 is quite good for wide angle shooting, particularly because of the LV option and the EVF. I sold my CV lenses because of the CA issues but I miss them, so I just pulled the trigger on a new CV 15mm f4.5 VIII presumably they have corrected the CA/magenta fringing issue. I hope so and will post photos as soon as I get it in my hands

This was shot with the CV15mm f4.5 Super Wide Heliar

 

[PeterA]

I don't have experience with the M9, but I do have a good bit of experience shooting with wide and ultra wide angle lenses with the M240. The 35mmf2 ASPH 'cron and the 28mm f2.8 Elmarit are wonderful with the M240. The interesting thing is the results with the CV 24mm Color Snapshot and the CV 15mm F4.5... In B&W they wonderful from wide open to whatever step down you choose. Basically, set them properly and they are in focus from very close to infinity. With the EVF you can see exactly what is in the picture. Shooting in color is problematic because of the magenta fringing along the sides
The M240 is quite good for wide angle shooting, particularly because of the LV option and the EVF. I sold my CV lenses because of the CA issues but I miss them, so I just pulled the trigger on a new CV 15mm f4.5 VIII presumably they have corrected the CA/magenta fringing issue. I hope so and will post photos as soon as I get it in my hands

This was shot with the CV15mm f4.5 Super Wide Heliar

Yes B&W removes a lot of colour issues for sure ( LOL) ...lovely photo btw , the newer elmarits were made for digital shooting much more than previous versions...my 28 cron is a bit smudy at edges on M9 and ( OT a lot smudgier on Sony)...good luck with your newer version CV...
-Pete

 

[fotografz]

Hi Peter!

Personally, for my style of "of the moment" photography verses more studied work like landscapes, I've never gotten along with a M and wide angle lenses beyond 28mm (maybe a 24mm using the outer edges of the viewfinder).

I'm not a fan of VF appendages hanging off the M camera, electronic or otherwise … nor use of LV on a M240 LCD when handholding, (a M on a tripod is counter to the spirit of "of the moment" spontaneous M shooting IMHO).

While I do have a M21/1.4 ASPH, I tend to use it on the Sony A7R using an adjustable Voigtlander adapter which allows much closer focus distances than the M. The A7R EVF does show the coverage … but the lens is hardly an optical technical tour d' force in the corners on that camera. Remains to be seen how it performs on the new a7R-II, but I'm not holding my breath. The A7R itself is okay, but the delay from "shoot to capture" makes it a non-choice for how I tend to shoot for the majority of the time.

I now pretty much shoot exclusively with the M Monochrome … leaving color work to the S(006) … or my cell phone (which I carry when shooting the M Mono :ROTFL

BTW, I did test a M240 for a couple of weeks after selling my M9P in anticipation of the M240 … bad move on my part. Should have kept the M9P for the look and feel of the files which I never had a problem with. No foul meant toward the M240 and those who love it … I just never loved the files no matter how much I played with them.

Maybe the Leica M320 will bring me back to a M color camera?

If the Leica Q had been a 35/1.4 ASPH FLE lens, I may have jumped on it. 35mm is my most used M lens by a wide margin.

- Marc

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter!

Personally, for my style of "of the moment" photography verses more studied work like landscapes, I've never gotten along with a M and wide angle lenses beyond 28mm (maybe a 24mm using the outer edges of the viewfinder).

I'm not a fan of VF appendages hanging off the M camera, electronic or otherwise … nor use of LV on a M240 LCD when handholding, (a M on a tripod is counter to the spirit of "of the moment" spontaneous M shooting IMHO).

While I do have a M21/1.4 ASPH, I tend to use it on the Sony A7R using an adjustable Voigtlander adapter which allows much closer focus distances than the M. The A7R EVF does show the coverage … but the lens is hardly an optical technical tour d' force in the corners on that camera. Remains to be seen how it performs on the new a7R-II, but I'm not holding my breath. The A7R itself is okay, but the delay from "shoot to capture" makes it a non-choice for how I tend to shoot for the majority of the time.

I now pretty much shoot exclusively with the M Monochrome … leaving color work to the S(006) … or my cell phone (which I carry when shooting the M Mono :ROTFL

BTW, I did test a M240 for a couple of weeks after selling my M9P in anticipation of the M240 … bad move on my part. Should have kept the M9P for the look and feel of the files which I never had a problem with. No foul meant toward the M240 and those who love it … I just never loved the files no matter how much I played with them.

Maybe the Leica M320 will bring me back to a M color camera?

If the Leica Q had been a 35/1.4 ASPH FLE lens, I may have jumped on it. 35mm is my most used M lens by a wide margin.

- Marc

Hi Marc

Glad to hear you like the 35 on the mono ( B&W hides a myriad of issues that these high resolution cameras bring up as far as colour goes for sure) - I have the original CCD version and it is my favourite snap shooter - saves all that mucking around in post - which to be quite frank bores me to tears...so many plug in formulaic ready made 'looks' that people use these days - when good light is free of charge? LOL

Joking aside - give me fat light and pretty much any camera - and the sparkle is there - but wides in 35mm format are always problematic...was going through some old files - reorganising ( again) back-up to back-up - and was amazed at the colour I used to get from my original 1DS Canon DSLR - no other DSLR apart from the DMR delivered such nice files...hence my reluctance to part ways with the M9 which is a tad better - although harder work tbh.

I wonder how people can hand hold 25+ megapixels tbh - unless you are shooting fast speed too easy to get fuzzy shots - the M9 18 is hard enough...maybe that is why peopel ar into teh high ISO thing - they can shoot faster speeds to nail a shot - but all higher ISO shots look flat to me - no pop.

Anyway thanks for sharing some of your experience - long time Leica nut that you are! -

-Pete

 

[k-hawinkler]

"I wonder how people can hand hold 25+ megapixels tbh"

IBIS! With WATE.

 

[fotografz]

Peter, I know exactly what you mean when I look back at color work with some older digital cameras. They may have fell short in some regards, but frankly those were rare instances in the scope of things.

Truth be told, I never thought of the Leica M as a 35mm color solution anyway. I rarely shot color with a film M … probably did more color shots with the M8/M9 than 35 years worth of shooting with film Ms.

BTW, I agree that ISOs over 800 or 1000 starts losing the magic pretty fast … except with the Monochrome.

Good to see you on the forum.:thumbup:


- Marc

 

[KeithL]

As much as I love using my M9 I find accurate framing with wide angle lenses to be a PITA. What good is edge to edge performance without accurate framing? The M240 with EVF transformed critical framing and widened the scope of the M system. I can now shoot my architectural based work with an outfit that is a fraction of the heft and girth of the medium format outfit I used previously.

It's changed my life

 

[uhoh7]

As much as I love using my M9 I find accurate framing with wide angle lenses to be a PITA. What good is edge to edge performance without accurate framing?

What finders were you using? I was very silly at first and got a frankenfinder, which did not help me at all. But I shoot alot of UWA, so I bit the bullet, and got the ZI18 and ZI21 finders. I would rather frame with them than my A7.mod EVF.

Next Step by unoh7, zm18 M9, at f/4 on the infinity stop.

Anyway the Zeiss finders are off the chart. I also have a nice CV 28 finder, but it's a joke in comparision. If my frame is really critical, I will just chimp it. AKA the M9's "Still Warm" view LOL I've grown very fond of the M9's LCD, small, tough, and fine to check focus and frame.

As M color: to my eye the newer M glass, Leica and Zeiss, is in a class by itself. SEM 21 and 28 cron are just sick in color.