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Thread: New S starts shipping

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    New S starts shipping

    Great price and specs, it is said to have 15 stops DR!

    Leica S (Typ 007) Starts Shipping with Lower Price of $16,900 | Red Dot Forum
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    Re: New S starts shipping

    That is an extremely sensible price drop. Contrary to the actual performance of the camera and lenses, this system doesn't sell well (and yes I have seen #s). It's way too expensive! I think this system's strength comes from it's shootability in handheld situations. It sorta reminds of a Mamiya 7 even though it's an SLR. It's smaller than competitors and wouldn't be that different from a 5D in terms of shooting style.

    I really hope to see some aggressive pricing from Leica in their other lines. Hopefully this new rumored FF mirrorless will be affordable for your average wedding photographer like me. If it performs like the Q and costs less than the M, I might be in..
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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Good news, I am definitely getting one even though my S2 is still working fine. The high ISO capability should be a game changer. I am just hoping that Leica have spent their "extended pre-launch time" not just fixing the video function but also making sure that colours are at least as good as those that come out of the S2/S006.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    [QUOTE=Speedgraphic;656654

    I really hope to see some aggressive pricing from Leica in their other lines. Hopefully this new rumored FF mirrorless will be affordable for your average wedding photographer like me. If it performs like the Q and costs less than the M, I might be in..[/QUOTE]

    Agressive pricing for a new FF mirrorless Leica system would also put me back into their game again. There is hope ....

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by baudolino View Post
    Good news, I am definitely getting one even though my S2 is still working fine. The high ISO capability should be a game changer. I am just hoping that Leica have spent their "extended pre-launch time" not just fixing the video function but also making sure that colours are at least as good as those that come out of the S2/S006.
    Well, I think the colours are fantastic - But I've not used an S2/006, so I'm slightly at a disadvantage. The high ISO and DR is definitely a game changer, I've been shooting with it since early July, and the files, DR and responsiveness are really knockout.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Agressive pricing for a new FF mirrorless Leica system would also put me back into their game again. There is hope ....
    Hmm - Well Peter, I'm not sure that a small German company is ever going to be in a position to manage aggressive pricing for equipment manufactured in Germany - compared to companies who manufacture in Thailand/Vietnam/China or even Japan. It's like asking Porsche to make a car competitive with Toyota prices - nice idea, but it isn't going to happen (unless they also make it in the far East).

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hmm - Well Peter, I'm not sure that a small German company is ever going to be in a position to manage aggressive pricing for equipment manufactured in Germany - compared to companies who manufacture in Thailand/Vietnam/China or even Japan. It's like asking Porsche to make a car competitive with Toyota prices - nice idea, but it isn't going to happen (unless they also make it in the far East).
    It could be realistic though. If they concentrate on the essentials and stop polishing a metal block for the looks, it may even be possible.
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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I think the colours are fantastic - But I've not used an S2/006, so I'm slightly at a disadvantage. The high ISO and DR is definitely a game changer, I've been shooting with it since early July, and the files, DR and responsiveness are really knockout.
    So Jono,

    Since you have the ear of those who control the Magisterium in Solms perhaps you can pass on the following.

    I purchased one of the last S006 cameras ... last week . It was delivered to me this past weekend with a new unopened 70 2.5 Asph lens ... with older firmware. The camera suggested a FW upgrade which went without problem... then:

    After about 8 shots the lens quit autofocusing ... had the dreaded whirring infinitum sound without any focus movement in AF.

    I started with a S2-P, moved to a S 006 and returned to the same only to find that with an end of product 2nd generation S and one of the first lenses offered in the system Leica cannot get QC right.

    North of 13K and the lens will not AF ... there are numerous examples of this on REDDOTFORUM S lens threads ... recently.

    Rather than enter the dreaded off to Solms vortex for an extended period I sent the whole kit back .... this makes the A7RII complaints look minor.

    There is something wrong with the AF system of the S lenses and until it is aired and addressed I will not be back.

    Otherwise a good system with great lens element but at this point poor execution.

    I think I will go with the Q based on your review.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Have folks seen MR's initial review?

    https://luminous-landscape.com/leica...ssions-review/

    I would be curious to get my hands on some DNGs including long exposures.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I think the colours are fantastic - But I've not used an S2/006, so I'm slightly at a disadvantage. The high ISO and DR is definitely a game changer, I've been shooting with it since early July, and the files, DR and responsiveness are really knockout.
    Hi, Is it possible for me to obtain a DNG to see the quality of the file? I am really interested in the S007. I currently own a S006 and 4 lens. It's my Second S006 (I left S to move to Alpa and digital back, and now I am back again).

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    So Jono,

    Since you have the ear of those who control the Magisterium in Solms perhaps you can pass on the following.

    I purchased one of the last S006 cameras ... last week . It was delivered to me this past weekend with a new unopened 70 2.5 Asph lens ... with older firmware. The camera suggested a FW upgrade which went without problem... then:

    After about 8 shots the lens quit autofocusing ... had the dreaded whirring infinitum sound without any focus movement in AF.

    I started with a S2-P, moved to a S 006 and returned to the same only to find that with an end of product 2nd generation S and one of the first lenses offered in the system Leica cannot get QC right.

    North of 13K and the lens will not AF ... there are numerous examples of this on REDDOTFORUM S lens threads ... recently.

    Rather than enter the dreaded off to Solms vortex for an extended period I sent the whole kit back .... this makes the A7RII complaints look minor.

    There is something wrong with the AF system of the S lenses and until it is aired and addressed I will not be back.

    Otherwise a good system with great lens element but at this point poor execution.

    I think I will go with the Q based on your review.

    Same thing happened to me.. Exactly the same way (but the lens didn't AF right off the bat, and the second one didn't AF after updating). Third time though.. What a charm, it worked!

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by kimyeesan View Post
    Hi, Is it possible for me to obtain a DNG to see the quality of the file? I am really interested in the S007. I currently own a S006 and 4 lens. It's my Second S006 (I left S to move to Alpa and digital back, and now I am back again).
    Test images (DNG and Jpeg) here:
    http://en.leica-camera.com/Photograp...Typ-007/Images
    - ErlingMM

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by erlingmm View Post
    Does it use the same battery pack as the S?

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I think the colours are fantastic - But I've not used an S2/006, so I'm slightly at a disadvantage. The high ISO and DR is definitely a game changer, I've been shooting with it since early July, and the files, DR and responsiveness are really knockout.
    Hi Jonathan, lucky you! Are you going to publish your impressions?

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by kimyeesan View Post
    Does it use the same battery pack as the S?
    No. The S007 battery has a larger capacity battery. It is backwards compatible with the S2 and S006, but older batteries cannot be used in the new camera. All current chargers work though (standard and pro).
    David Farkas
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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Great price and specs, it is said to have 15 stops DR!
    I might not be too excited about that. From DPreview:

    Possibly the most significant feature of the new sensor is the quoted 15-stop dynamic range. Leica claims there has been no demand from its S camera users for greater resolution, but the increase from 13-stops of DR in the Type 006 to 15 stops will have a definite impact on the way images look. The DNG Raw files are recorded in 14bit with some interpolation applied to produce the quoted figures.
    Now the question is how close it can come to 14 EV of DR without interpolation...

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post


    Now the question is how close it can come to 14 EV of DR without interpolation...
    What difference does that make for a picture?

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    What difference does that make for a picture?
    It depends on the scene contrast...

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Low contrast flat files (good for 4K video) appear to be the norm. Leica is joining the fray by "cooking" the files to that end, it would seem.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hmm - Well Peter, I'm not sure that a small German company is ever going to be in a position to manage aggressive pricing for equipment manufactured in Germany - compared to companies who manufacture in Thailand/Vietnam/China or even Japan. It's like asking Porsche to make a car competitive with Toyota prices - nice idea, but it isn't going to happen (unless they also make it in the far East).
    Old argument for an old Leica. They opened up brand new facilities and have partnerships with electronics and software makers now (i.e. the Q). I think their capacity may be higher, and they really aught to grow up and find a way to make at least one product for professionals affordably. Make them in Japan, or China, keep the lenses German! Only die hard red-dot drunk fans will really have a problem with 'made in' markers that don't end in 'Germany'. Why they don't seem to want professionals (who are largely budget conscious as of late) using their equipment is beyond me. I have some pretty high hopes for the new rumored system personally. And in 4 years when the new S is affordable, I'll take a look.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    So Jono,

    Since you have the ear of those who control the Magisterium in Solms perhaps you can pass on the following.ts look minor.
    That Doesn't sound good, and I'm Sure you did right to send it back. I'll do what I can, but my contacts aren't really on the customer service side

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post

    I think I will go with the Q based on your review.
    The devil and the deep blue sea I'd say! The Q is a great camera though, and splendidly fulfils my mate Neil's definition of good technology: "not irritating"

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    That Doesn't sound good, and I'm Sure you did right to send it back. I'll do what I can, but my contacts aren't really on the customer service side



    The devil and the deep blue sea I'd say! The Q is a great camera though, and splendidly fulfils my mate Neil's definition of good technology: "not irritating"
    I talked with my dealer today ... still hoping to resolve this as the system is so strong when everything is working. I have files that are unapproachable by
    all the other cameras I have used.

    See how it all works out ... S006 S007 M246 or Q ... now the new Q rumored sounds like it may be ideal for us old eye guys.

    Bob

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I talked with my dealer today ... still hoping to resolve this as the system is so strong when everything is working. I have files that are unapproachable by
    all the other cameras I have used.

    See how it all works out ... S006 S007 M246 or Q ... now the new Q rumored sounds like it may be ideal for us old eye guys.

    Bob
    Bob, I've had my share of trials and tribulations with the S system also including more than one lens that suddenly stopped auto focussing. I've stuck with it because I share your impressions of its' strengths "when it is working", and the files themselves which are unmatchable. Fortunately, Leica USA service has been reasonably responsive, and my impatience has been tempered by the mellowness of aging

    I do not share the deep desire that the body be in-line with every technological advancement made by other manufacturers at least not for the way I use such a camera. The S remains my most used kit because it remains the most versatile system available due to the dual shutter in a DSLR form. That the super excellent lenses are such fast maximum aperture doesn't hurt either one not need use them wide open to realize the gain things like f/2 or 2.5 make for the very bright optical viewfinder the S is known for


    Now that the S(007) price is a bit more reasonable, I'll be watching for the file qualities of this CMOS based S and have started squirreling away the funds in case I decide to get one. I'm hoping to pull it off without selling my S(006) which I use in studio at ISO 100 most of the time anyway.


    - Marc
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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    See how it all works out ... S006 S007 M246 or Q ... now the new Q rumored sounds like it may be ideal for us old eye guys.
    Hi Bob
    Well, I have no terms of reference, but I thought the files from 007 were completely delicious, and at it's current price I can't really see a good reason for getting the 006 . . . . but never having shot with an 006 it's hard to be sure!

    All the best
    Jono

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    New S starts shipping


    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post

    (...)
    they really aught to grow up and find a way to make at least one product for professionals affordably. (...)

    (...) Why they don't seem to want professionals (who are largely budget conscious as of late) using their equipment is beyond me. (...)

    I don't think it's very likely (though I used to share your hopes when I was waiting for the R10 that never materialized).

    "Prestigious luxury" is a deliberate business model, and it doesn't go all that well together with "affordable". We can't have both at the same time.

    Which is why the key word in the below illustration is the word "promises" .-)




    crop of a screendump from: overgaard dot dk

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post



    I don't think it's very likely (though I used to share your hopes when I was waiting for the R10 that never materialized).

    "Prestigious luxury" is a deliberate business model, and it doesn't go all that well together with "affordable". We can't have both at the same time.

    Which is why the key word in the below illustration is the word "promises" .-)




    crop of a screendump from: overgaard dot dk

    Yeah, I know that's what they've been going for. It's a huge bummer too. I might describe a 5k iMac as a 'luxury' desktop computer, and an iPhone as a 'luxury' smart phone in some ways, but they're at least affordable for a middle class person who stretches their budget. Leica stuff is just outta the sphere of rational thought. The Q is expensive but used I could justify it, and with the recent $8k price drop on the S, and the perpetual discounts on M lenses, I am HOPING they want to dip the tinyest of toes into the "99%" market. I'm getting tired of wating for Fuji to make a FF X100. They seem happy to live in perpetual mediocracy.

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    Re: New S starts shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Yeah, I know that's what they've been going for. It's a huge bummer too. I might describe a 5k iMac as a 'luxury' desktop computer, and an iPhone as a 'luxury' smart phone in some ways, but they're at least affordable for a middle class person who stretches their budget. Leica stuff is just outta the sphere of rational thought. The Q is expensive but used I could justify it, and with the recent $8k price drop on the S, and the perpetual discounts on M lenses, I am HOPING they want to dip the tinyest of toes into the "99%" market. I'm getting tired of wating for Fuji to make a FF X100. They seem happy to live in perpetual mediocracy.
    "Rational Thought" is a relative term. How one perceives the value of any product is directly related to our needs/desires and to one's ability to pay for it. Either you can afford your "wants and gimmes", or you can't … OR, you place a priority on it and forego other items you may want or need. I was once in the former group and worked with two Leica M9s and two Hasselblad H cameras and most all of the lenses. After retiring, I slid into the latter group … so if I want the new S I'll have to forego other desires.

    I think there are too many relatively reasonably priced high-performance cameras like the D810, Canon 5D-III, and Sony A7R-II with new lenses coming to the forefront for Leica to compete with on price … or if they do try, it'll only be because of a more affordable red dot prestige rather than any real world performance advantage that would last longer than 6 months.

    I honestly do not think Leica is for those addicted to relentless techno-change. Personally, I evaluate each equipment choice as it relates to my day-to-day needs and ways of making photographs … not everyone else's, or some new laundry list of tech stuff that I don't actually need. If it fits me, it probably will fit me for a good while. I prefer a rangefinder for most "of the moment work" which is primarily B&W … and my MM fits that today as well as it did when I got it some years ago. Same for the S system which replaced the Hasselblads after I stopped doing so much commercial work tethered to a computer. These days, I do not need a new S(007), but may want it because my shooting has migrated to other interests where the (007) may fit better. However, the driving reason for having the S at all remains the same as the day I first got an S2P years ago … superb, fast aperture MF lenses with central shutters … and a dual card, dual shutter DSLR type camera. To this day, it stands alone in fitting my needs. Nothing else is even a consideration.

    - Marc
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