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Thread: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Studio tests: Leica SL: Digital Photography Review

    Doesn't look so good in comparison to pretty much anything of this generation, especially at ISO 3200 & 6400. Surprised at how well the A7II did in comparison.

    In answer to an earlier question someone asked, I was specifically told by the folks working the Leica booth that leaf shutter functionality from the CS S lenses will NOT be added to the SL via firmware.
    Photos with the SL are taken with a zoom lens at maximum extension, stopped down one stop from wide open. Photos from the other three cameras are taken with primes lenses stopped down more than three stops from wide open. If this didn't lead to differences in resolution, I should throw away my prime lenses.

    As for high ISO, the D750 stands out from the crowd. The differences between the others are hardly relevant in real life, and I would probably not be able to tell who is who if I saw them with 5 minutes between them. If anything, the Sony shows slightly more noise than the SL at ISO 6400.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I am totally confused by these comparisons between the Sl and the A7R or A7II.Why not compare to the latest available Sony the A7RII? If you say because it is 42 versus the SL's 24 MP, then I cannot buy a new camera that has 24MP when other new cameras now are offering resolution in the 36-50MP. Even the FF Pentax is rumored to be 36MP minimum.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I am totally confused by these comparisons between the Sl and the A7R or A7II.Why not compare to the latest available Sony the A7RII? If you say because it is 42 versus the SL's 24 MP, then I cannot buy a new camera that has 24MP when other new cameras now are offering resolution in the 36-50MP. Even the FF Pentax is rumored to be 36MP minimum.
    Of course you can, but that doesn't change the fact that the Leica zoom will always struggle against the Zeiss prime, particularly at the far end of the zoom register. The least they could do was to mount Leica prime corresponding to the Zeiss when doing this test, and then re-do it once the native prime is available.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/995...amera-review/2

    Doesn't look so good in comparison to pretty much anything of this generation, especially at ISO 3200 & 6400. Surprised at how well the A7II did in comparison.
    The A7II is the same sensor and ISO performance as the original A7, but with IBIS. I never shoot my A7 over 1200 because to my taste it gets ugly. I'd rather just use fast glass and keep the ISO down. All reports I have heard are ISO is not as good as the Q, but OK.

    Having seen the work DPR does with their review cameras for many years, I don't take them seriously any more.

    I would guess SL ISO performance is similar to A7II. I don't hear rave reviews about A7r2 ISO either.

    If the A7r2 was not hamstrung by a quirky sensor cover, highly variable native glass, poor batteries, poor RAWS, awful interface I would be more impressed with the pixel count. It does offer the ability to crop well into any image, and it's ahead of the SL without doubt in that department. Otherwise, for me, it's a paper tiger.

    That's not to say I don't see great photography with all the Sonys here. I credit the shooters more than the gear.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The least they could do was to mount Leica prime corresponding to the Zeiss when doing this test, and then re-do it once the native prime is available.
    But then also the use of adapted lens could be questionable. Which lens M? R? Which adaptor? Any testing metod has some weak point.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Photos with the SL are taken with a zoom lens at maximum extension, stopped down one stop from wide open. Photos from the other three cameras are taken with primes lenses stopped down more than three stops from wide open. If this didn't lead to differences in resolution, I should throw away my prime lenses.
    It's not unreasonable to expect a (slow) $5000 zoom lens to perform on-par with a prime lens when shot at f5.6. If not, on what basis is the price justified?
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post

    That's not to say I don't see great photography with all the Sonys here. I credit the shooters more than the gear.
    Lately, your posts have become "interesting". You would diss Sony but would use their cameras every day. You would praise Leica but will not buy their new offerings.



    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    It's not unreasonable to expect a (slow) $5000 zoom lens to perform on-par with a prime lens when shot at f5.6. If not, on what basis is the price justified?
    Also, Jono said that it is their best zoom to date. Is everyone saying that my Zony lens is better than this?
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    In the DPR "studio test", they compare the Leica zoom vs best available primes on the other cameras, but they are also using the Vario-Elmarit at 90 mm, which is probably its sharpest focal length. So the comparisons are done at distances in which the test target fills the frame for each camera, with focal lengths ranging from 28 to 90 mm. That's a further source of confusion.

    Incidentally, check out Sandy McGuffog's blog at http://chromasoft.blogspot.co.il/201...-there-on.html , for information on what is corrected in software at the wide end of the Vario-Elmarit 24-90.

    scott
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I have been following the SL release and debate with a great deal of interest. I think Leica has been clever, as this camera is a fantastic compliment to the Leica S system. If the adapter for the S lenses works well (I know minus the CS shutter) then they will have created two very complimentary systems. I think the camera will help in the sales of Leica S cameras too. Investing in a Leica S with a 30mm, 45mm, 70mm and 100mm lens system is now even more attractive because their prime S lenses will work with the smaller and more portable SL. In fact it makes the CCD version of the S system very attractive because at low ISO's I'd assume the 006 and 007 to be very similar. Then for higher ISO, faster work the SL can be utilised. Price wise a S 006 + SL is about the same as a S 007. Just imagine the 70mm or 100mm S primes for portraits on the SL.

    Their biggest mistake is not having the adapters ready at launch. Thats a big mistake. I would have been all over this if they had the S adapter at launch. I currently run a P40+ and Phase System. I'm still seething about the non-compatibility of the XF, so this has really caught my attention.

    Also I am happy that this camera release has started to shift the debate about new cameras to issues that are more important (to me anyway). Camera interface; viewfinder; ergonomics; ease of use; and the key element, lenses. I'm so bored of pixel peeping and comparisons at 100%. Its not photography. Look at many of the historical photographers, half their greatest work is out of focus!

    Just an after thought, but you can see that Leica are starting to use elements of each camera system they release to inform their other systems. So the SL has lots of S DNA. I would wager that the next S camera is a mirrorless system with a big sensor. Especially if EVF technology gets better in the next couple of years (which is obviously will do).
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    As I said I was not too impressed by this new Leica zoom and I can look myself as soon as samples are provided, thanks to Jono and thanks to dpreview!

    It definitely shows weakness and there are many other zooms meanwhile around which are at least on par WRT IQ, but as they are not Leica zooms they are generally much cheaper. And a cheaper zoom one would tend to easier forgive some weakness.
    This is not just incredibly expensive. It is also massive and heavy, tipping the scale at just over 2.5lb. I have paid over dibs for Leica M lenses in the past due to their exceptional performance, but $5,000
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x6 View Post
    I currently run a P40+ and Phase System. I'm still seething about the non-compatibility of the XF, so this has really caught my attention.
    Not to pick on this line as you know your requirements best, but wouldn't a trade in for an XF and maybe a refurbished IQ 140 be more cost effective than selling your entire rig and building an S system from scratch?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Not to pick on this line as you know your requirements best, but wouldn't a trade in for an XF and maybe a refurbished IQ 140 be more cost effective than selling your entire rig and building an S system from scratch?
    In terms of the whole system, yes the cost would be higher. However on a body only basis a trade in to an IQ250+XF is a lot more expensive than a S 006+SL. I believe an IQ140+XF would be around the same price as a S 006+SL. Give or take 1,000. I appreciate that this is all exclusive of lenses. However I get two cameras and the possibility to use the same prime lenses. I also currently have a small camera system for walkarounds that could then be sold off.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Not to pick on this line as you know your requirements best, but wouldn't a trade in for an XF and maybe a refurbished IQ 140 be more cost effective than selling your entire rig and building an S system from scratch?
    No... Simply because an XF + IQ 140 would cost him a difference that would be as much as adding an S007 body and he would still have exactly the same IQ... While if he adds an S-body, will improve IQ & ISO performance than the P-40+ and then sell the current body and back and finance a couple of lenses (or even build a whole series of lenses if he goes for C645 or Hassy glass) and then even pocket the money by selling his Phamyia lenses too...

    But most important, he would avoid being trapped in a closed system that would require him to "bleed" again sooner or later and only use his lenses for a single purpose.... While with the S, he will be able to use the glass on a Sinar view camera (with full interface communication) add an SL to use as an MFDB on the Sinar and have a back up body too, have high quality video and probably finance all this (depending on the lenses value) by using the pocketed money from selling the lenses.

    I guess cost effectiveness is related to more things than been stuck with an expensive system that is designed to only perform better than a DSLR (in only some aspects) and is "closed" to what it does... It's a matter of perspective ...see?

    Just to give you an example (that has attracted a lot of customers to Leica and it will add even more with the introduction of the SL)... Ever wondered why Contax 645 S/H prices went of the roof after Leica releasing the C-adapter? It's not only because the majority (out of the best) wedding photographers are using it to shoot weddings with film... It is also because after the S-007 announcement the Leica dealers are full of pre-orders (ask a dealer to confirm this) from the same wedding pros world wide that can now integrate an S-007 into their system by only adding an S-007 body and get rid of their DSLRs altogether using the money to finance the S-007... Now Leica introduced the SL that will allow them to also shoot with their existing lenses, add a back up body and even add HQ video in their work... see?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I guess what I am saying is that the release of the SL improves the value proposition of both the S 006 and S 007 cameras. In general the higher the ISO the lower my requirements for megapixels. That's my requirement. So the SL fits in very well with the S 006/7. If only they had released the S adapter at the same time. Poor business decision.

    I will wait for the S adapter and test it for my purposes. If it's good, I'm in.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I've seen comment suggesting that the 24-90mm is not great at 90mm and others saying its where the lens is strongest. I'm a bit confused about that bit. PC Mag's test suggests its strongest right in the middle and deteriorated a bit between 70mm and 90mm.

    It is a max. of about f3.1 at 35mm and f3.6 at 50mm already. That does make it a fairly different proposition to a constant f2.8 and I cannot help but feel a regular 24-70 f2.8 would have been preferable (and smaller?). Here's the LinK: 24-90mm SL lens test at PC Mag. I've never really read their reviews before, but in comparing the Leica optic to Canon, Nikon and Sigma, I can't say anything stands out as exceptional about the optical performance of the Leica. I can imagine there are differences in look, but in resolution terms, the big brands' pro zooms are easily as good and in some cases better.
    Last edited by turtle; 29th October 2015 at 05:35.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    There are several downloadable raw files at http://dpnow.com/9567.html. Shots taken outdoor with the Vario Elmarit and with a Summicron 35 ASPH.
    The amount of distortion correction done by Lr/ACR on the basis of the exif data at 24mm is quite substantial.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I've seen comment suggesting that the 24-90mm is not great at 90mm and others saying its where the lens is strongest. I'm a bit confused about that bit. PC Mag's test suggests its strongest right in the middle and deteriorated a bit between 70mm and 90mm.
    Looking at the MTF graphs published by Leica it seems to me that 90mm is the sharpest focal lenght.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x6 View Post
    I guess what I am saying is that the release of the SL improves the value proposition of both the S 006 and S 007 cameras. In general the higher the ISO the lower my requirements for megapixels. That's my requirement. So the SL fits in very well with the S 006/7. If only they had released the S adapter at the same time. Poor business decision.

    I will wait for the S adapter and test it for my purposes. If it's good, I'm in.
    +1

    I guess you are 100% spot on... The SL looks to have been released as to miximize the S-006 / 007 sales and also the integration of S-user lenses with the Sinar cameras (with the SL used as an MFDB) for those who want to add a view camera ability in their system (since the interface required is the same as the SL to S lens adapter)... If Leica was after "just a mirrorless" they could have released a - cheaper to - Leica Q version without the lens....

    By the way, the rumor some try to spread that the S-lenses leaf shutter won't work with the adapter, is pure fiction that they made up... I had to call Leica and ask them about that, their comment was "pure fiction... none is authorized to comment on an unreleased product yet, as he can't possibly know what the project manager will come up with, we won't restrict capabilities out of any of our products if we can apply them"....

    You are right on the S-adapter delay, but I think that it has to do with the Sinar interface being developed in parallel to it... So I guess there should a small size (like Actus or Universallis) view camera coming soon from Sinar, with the SL in mind instead of an MFDB...

    The S-007 demand is "off the roof" at the moment from wedding pros that want to use their existing line of C645 lenses on it so the demand can't be damaged from the S-adapter absence and I suspect that SL will have a good start by the owners of R&M lenses as to keep it in demand until the release of the S-adapter... but again, it would be best for Sinar to have a finished product as to accurately adapt a view camera to it... isn't it?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ario Arioldi View Post
    Looking at the MTF graphs published by Leica it seems to me that 90mm is the sharpest focal lenght.
    I didn't know those were available, but after going over them, I think the best showing in either the infinity or the 1 m distance would be obtained at 50 mm and f/5.6. The mtf's do show weaker edges at the two extremes of the zoom focal range. So how do we get DPR to redo that shot?

    scott

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    The integration of Sinar in Leica gave birth to the sinar p MF-L adapter for sinar P tech cams.
    It's always good to have options and this is certainly great for people already having a Sinar P and a Pack Shot activity.
    But this has rather limited interest for other users (no wide angle option for the Sinar P + Leica S, it stops at around 60mm focal length if I recall).
    So a new Sinar system that would be compatible with a Leica body and offering real wide angle options (at least 24mm) and portability should be most welcomed. If no DB is used but a Leica SL body in place, would it only be physically possible to build such tool ?
    (the rear element of a Rodenstock 32mm (23mm eq. with a Phase One back) comes really close to the sensor)

    Only option that comes to mind is the 'Alpa FPS' like adapter from Sinar; Do you have other information ?
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    While zooms are typically weakest at the long end, this is not always the case - the Canon 70-200mm f2.8 L II being such an example.

    Out of interest, how many people here would have preferred a 24-70 f2.8 rather than the 24-90mm f2.8-4 for the SL? I wonder if there is more interest in the extra focal length or speed? I'd go for speed personally, but interested to know of many people would rather the extra reach (hence the popularity of the 24-105 f4 lenses from Canon/Sigma).

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    WRT sharpness it would obviously be weakest at the long end, this is normal. ..

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    In the DPR "studio test", they compare the Leica zoom vs best available primes on the other cameras, but they are also using the Vario-Elmarit at 90 mm, which is probably its sharpest focal length. So the comparisons are done at distances in which the test target fills the frame for each camera, with focal lengths ranging from 28 to 90 mm. That's a further source of confusion.

    scott
    Hi There Scott
    I haven't done the tests myself, but I'm sure someone (I think it was Ming Thein) said that 90mm was actually the worst focal length on the zoom, and that it was best around 50mm (why on earth did they use 90?)

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    I could never fall in love with the concept of adapted glass, no matter how hard I tried... BTW the same issues are there of course far all the adapted lenses to other mirrorless cameras, most prominently the A7-series. Nice playing around, but not more, at least for me. And almost all of the results I have seen show exactly this! But some folks are still happy with that approach.
    Well Peter
    There is the issue of the adapter not being made properly . . . . but of course that's just as likely with the camera's mount or the lenses. Admittedly it adds in two more faces - but hey, the Leica adapters seem to be really well made.

    If you're using an SLR with a mirror, then that's another variable.

    Of course, the real problem is that the lenses weren't designed for the camera, and the camera wasn't designed for the lenses, and I quite agree, that throws the whole thing out of the window - don't use adapted glass . . . . . . . . .

    Unless of course the adapter recognises the lens and behaves accordingly (populating the exif, applying lens corrections where necessary and adjusting the Auto Iso etc. on the basis of the focal length and aperture). The SL does this - both for M and for R lenses. So although you have the potential engineering issue with a badly made mount (surely a small risk in this day and age) you could consider in this case these lenses to be 'accomodated'.

    Seems to me that dPreview should have used a Leica 50 if they wanted a level playing field, and shooting the zoom at 90mm was certainly an odd decision.

    all the best

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    One mor test on Focus Numerique, with Imatest measurements and downloadable raw files.
    http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-...stiques-1.html
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Out of interest, how many people here would have preferred a 24-70 f2.8 rather than the 24-90mm f2.8-4 for the SL?
    I'd vote for a 24-90mm F4-2.8, would make a lot of sense, no ? (ok maybe not for the engineer that should design it )
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    +1

    I guess you are 100% spot on... The SL looks to have been released as to miximize the S-006 / 007 sales and also the integration of S-user lenses with the Sinar cameras (with the SL used as an MFDB) for those who want to add a view camera ability in their system (since the interface required is the same as the SL to S lens adapter)... If Leica was after "just a mirrorless" they could have released a - cheaper to - Leica Q version without the lens....

    By the way, the rumor some try to spread that the S-lenses leaf shutter won't work with the adapter, is pure fiction that they made up... I had to call Leica and ask them about that, their comment was "pure fiction... none is authorized to comment on an unreleased product yet, as he can't possibly know what the project manager will come up with, we won't restrict capabilities out of any of our products if we can apply them"....

    You are right on the S-adapter delay, but I think that it has to do with the Sinar interface being developed in parallel to it... So I guess there should a small size (like Actus or Universallis) view camera coming soon from Sinar, with the SL in mind instead of an MFDB...

    The S-007 demand is "off the roof" at the moment from wedding pros that want to use their existing line of C645 lenses on it so the demand can't be damaged from the S-adapter absence and I suspect that SL will have a good start by the owners of R&M lenses as to keep it in demand until the release of the S-adapter... but again, it would be best for Sinar to have a finished product as to accurately adapt a view camera to it... isn't it?
    I was told by no less than two representatives from Leica at the trade show that the leaf shutters WILL NOT BE ENABLED on the SL. The only thing that is fiction is your continued musings about non-existent future functionality with Sinar equipment. These products do not exist, and will not exist. Another fiction would be high S 007 demand. It's another slow seller. I do in fact have access to #s to support this. Wedding people are certainly not buying it because it makes no fiscal sense even for the highest paid among us.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    The integration of Sinar in Leica gave birth to the sinar p MF-L adapter for sinar P tech cams.
    It's always good to have options and this is certainly great for people already having a Sinar P and a Pack Shot activity.
    But this has rather limited interest for other users (no wide angle option for the Sinar P + Leica S, it stops at around 60mm focal length if I recall).
    So a new Sinar system that would be compatible with a Leica body and offering real wide angle options (at least 24mm) and portability should be most welcomed. If no DB is used but a Leica SL body in place, would it only be physically possible to build such tool ?
    (the rear element of a Rodenstock 32mm (23mm eq. with a Phase One back) comes really close to the sensor)

    Only option that comes to mind is the 'Alpa FPS' like adapter from Sinar; Do you have other information ?
    I think you've missed my point... If the SL will be used on a Sinar instead of an MFDB and the interface of S-lenses is applied as to have aperture control, then one would use his S-lenses (or Contax 645, or Hasselblad H via the appropriate adapter) on the front standard of the camera (since the image circle is much wider than what is required with the 24x36 sensor of the SL and there is nothing to block the light from hitting the sensor)... So one would use the Sinar S 24mm (or the Hasselblad 24mm) instead of an LF lens... The T-mount is 4mm (!!!!) wider than the Sony E mount... so the SL is expected to be perfect as to use it instead of an MFDB on a view camera even more so than the Sony A7 is...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    I was told by no less than two representatives from Leica at the trade show that the leaf shutters WILL NOT BE ENABLED on the SL. The only thing that is fiction is your continued musings about non-existent future functionality with Sinar equipment. These products do not exist, and will not exist. Another fiction would be high S 007 demand. It's another slow seller. I do in fact have access to #s to support this. Wedding people are certainly not buying it because it makes no fiscal sense even for the highest paid among us.
    Keep on the good work...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    I think you've missed my point... If the SL will be used on a Sinar instead of an MFDB and the interface of S-lenses is applied as to have aperture control, then one would use his S-lenses (or Contax 645, or Hasselblad H via the appropriate adapter) on the front standard of the camera (since the image circle is much wider than what is required with the 24x36 sensor of the SL and there is nothing to block the light from hitting the sensor)... So one would use the Sinar S 24mm (or the Hasselblad 24mm) instead of an LF lens... The T-mount is 4mm (!!!!) wider than the Sony E mount... so the SL is expected to be perfect as to use it instead of an MFDB on a view camera even more so than the Sony A7 is...
    Oh, okay I get it, would be great to see that coming.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    Oh, okay I get it, would be great to see that coming.
    Keep in mind, that all of this is made up. This is just complete conjecture on what could happen.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Keep in mind, that all of this is made up. This is just complete conjecture on what could happen.
    Of course it is... Leica doesn't want to sell the equipment they make... They make the products just to look at them... they'll never combine them together as any other maker does as to sell more of them!
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    I was told by no less than two representatives from Leica at the trade show that the leaf shutters WILL NOT BE ENABLED on the SL.
    Hi There
    I've no doubt that you were told (and I have absolutely no idea personally of the truth one way or another) but I am aware that the stuff of adapters is very much under NDA, and it seems to me really unlikely that someone at a trade show would break that NDA with such gay abandon. But hey - as I say, I know nothing about it (or I could say nothing). Seems to me that we need to wait for the official specifications of the S and R adapters before we can really know what their functionality is . .

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I know this was pretty far up on the post... But I looked at the Dpreview shots, and even though I think they're a rubbish website. I came away thinking that the SL is on par with all the other cameras as far ISO is concern. Even the A7s.

    The sharpness for a zoom is also on par with the other cameras.. I detect a slight bit more sharpness from the A7rII but I suspect it's really just resolution. And of course we have better lenses then the SL-zoom. So most of that will probably be negated by a better SL lens.

    The results are IMHO, favour the SL (especially considering the lack of RAW support and it being a first gen firmware) I'm MORE excited about the SL now, not less.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There
    I've no doubt that you were told (and I have absolutely no idea personally of the truth one way or another) but I am aware that the stuff of adapters is very much under NDA, and it seems to me really unlikely that someone at a trade show would break that NDA with such gay abandon. But hey - as I say, I know nothing about it (or I could say nothing). Seems to me that we need to wait for the official specifications of the S and R adapters before we can really know what their functionality is . .
    Completely agree. This is BS and highly doubtful. As when I asked (again, just like 3 days ago). I was told they could not disclose the information, but the adapter would be worth the wait. I take it that Leica isn't just adding AF and calling it a day.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There
    I've no doubt that you were told (and I have absolutely no idea personally of the truth one way or another) but I am aware that the stuff of adapters is very much under NDA, and it seems to me really unlikely that someone at a trade show would break that NDA with such gay abandon. But hey - as I say, I know nothing about it (or I could say nothing). Seems to me that we need to wait for the official specifications of the S and R adapfters before we can really know what their functionality is . .
    A calm voice amidst the storm.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    I know this was pretty far up on the post... But I looked at the Dpreview shots, and even though I think they're a rubbish website. I came away thinking that the SL is on par with all the other cameras as far ISO is concern. Even the A7s.
    A7 pural or A7s (only Sony could think up this silly camera designation)?

    It seems about as good as A7II, but the A7s or A7sII are in another league entirely. These are the best high ISO cameras we have ever seen, but the price is 10mp and the rest of the Sony issues.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    A7 pural or A7s (only Sony could think up this silly camera designation)?

    It seems about as good as A7II, but the A7s or A7sII are in another league entirely. These are the best high ISO cameras we have ever seen, but the price is 10mp and the rest of the Sony issues.
    I mean A7 plural. A general umbrella term though, which does somewhat encompass the A7s (but obviously the camera still has a good 2 stops on the SL and everything else out there).

    BUT if you think about it. The big argument with the A7rII is that you can downres and it looks closer to the A7s at the A7s mp count. SO why can't I take that theory and apply it to the SL?

    You have the option of selecting any camera you want, the A7s is on there, not the A7sII. But same sensor right?

    So it's not to far off once down-rezed based on the samples in RAW.. And that's first gen firmware. Leica tends to get better somehow over the course of a year. So WE MIGHT (with better firmware) see a 1 stop difference up to 12800 then at that point I think it'll probably jump to a two stop difference.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    As for spirited support - I formalised my order for a camera and 24-90 today - can't say fairer than that.
    Jono,

    Did you have the standard zoom lens for the T as well?

    Do you see much further use for that one in the future now that you will be obtaining the SL standard zoom as well?

    Thanks, Joris.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    The A7II is the same sensor and ISO performance as the original A7, but with IBIS. I never shoot my A7 over 1200 because to my taste it gets ugly. I'd rather just use fast glass and keep the ISO down. All reports I have heard are ISO is not as good as the Q, but OK.

    Having seen the work DPR does with their review cameras for many years, I don't take them seriously any more.

    I would guess SL ISO performance is similar to A7II. I don't hear rave reviews about A7r2 ISO either.

    If the A7r2 was not hamstrung by a quirky sensor cover, highly variable native glass, poor batteries, poor RAWS, awful interface I would be more impressed with the pixel count. It does offer the ability to crop well into any image, and it's ahead of the SL without doubt in that department. Otherwise, for me, it's a paper tiger.

    That's not to say I don't see great photography with all the Sonys here. I credit the shooters more than the gear.
    Well FWIW one big issue I see with the Leica sensor that Sony doesn't have is banding at high ISO. I saw it on the Leica Q when I tried it, and I see that dpreview reported/commented on that aspect already.

    I do think if Leica is going to charge the high price they do, the sensor needs to be more flawless than that, though certainly the lenses will be excellent.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well FWIW one big issue I see with the Leica sensor that Sony doesn't have is banding at high ISO. I saw it on the Leica Q when I tried it, and I see that dpreview reported/commented on that aspect already.

    I do think if Leica is going to charge the high price they do, the sensor needs to be more flawless than that, though certainly he lenses will be excellent.

    - Ricardo
    I would take banding over an exfoliating sensor anyday.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x6 View Post
    In fact it makes the CCD version of the S system very attractive because at low ISO's I'd assume the 006 and 007 to be very similar. Then for higher ISO, faster work the SL can be utilised. Price wise a S 006 + SL is about the same as a S 007. Just imagine the 70mm or 100mm S primes for portraits on the SL.
    +1... Quite right, the SL adds the complementary features to the S-006 that the S-007 has, so one may preferer the "ccd look" than the "Cmos look"...
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Out of interest, how many people here would have preferred a 24-70 f2.8 rather than the 24-90mm f2.8-4 for the SL? I wonder if there is more interest in the extra focal length or speed?
    I'd take the reach over the speed any day. I typically only use these zoom lenses for fairly boring event type work. With image stabilisation and decent ISO 2,500, I don't find F4 a limitation whereas I know that 90mm will be more useful to me than 70mm at the long end.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would take banding over an exfoliating sensor anyday.
    Meow You misunderstand this feature, Vivek

    It just means you get free new sensor every three years or so.

    It's another reason the bodies are not cheap. They look after them for years.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Meow You misunderstand this feature, Vivek

    It just means you get free new sensor every three years or so.

    It's another reason the bodies are not cheap. They look after them for years.
    Not sure if I should laugh or cry at this. You post a fact, Charlie but it is presented in a such way that equates VW to trust.

    Yes, I agree that their goof ups are factored into the price.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Not sure if I should laugh or cry at this. You post a fact, Charlie but it is presented in a such way that equates VW to trust.

    Yes, I agree that their goof ups are factored into the price.
    Just threw two Samsung tablets in the garbage because they were not charging any more. not even 3 years old. I wish Samsung would show the same responsibility.

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