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Thread: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    colors...I hope for subtile S colors. (IMO)
    The S do not have more "subtile" colors as, let say, a simple D800. In fact they are almost the same (I'm S user). Even thought it is a CCD, it is pretty neutral without any kind of characterisation, like a CMOS. The colors out of the Q are just aftermath Leica curve soup.

    With leica all is in the lens, really, and only in the lenses.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pricing, boutiqueness, ....
    That's been done already with the rebadged Panasonic digicams. I'm intrigued to see something entirely new from Leica.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    Yes, the Q is great. And I think the price point is fair for what you get. Again, I kinda wish Leica would have just added the necessary updates to the Q (half stop shutter, half stop aperture) and then just brought out a 35/75 or 28/50/90 versions. Update the flash to something usable and viola. I'm happy for the next 10 years + whatever S-system I decide to keep/use + the newest M available
    Agree the f stop & shutter clicks are quirks and not what we usually find with Leicas, but I have gotten a bit used to it and find the camera a joy to use in AF (that was why I bought it) just the same as when I first got the RX-1.

    You are right that if Leica comes out with a different FL versions it might just be the difference. Due to the Rx-1 having a 35, I believe that is why Leica used the 28 and might stay away from that FL (especially with the introduction of the RX1RII), but even a 50/75 combo might work. For me 35 is the sweat spot for street.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by aDam007 View Post
    Jose Villa wouldn't touch it (strictly film). But I agree.. I'd love to have a SL+45S and a SL+100S for weddings, if they really were small fast EVF S-sensor cameras. As it stands now, I'm considering two S bodies for weddings. I just can't decide if I think it's a good or a bad idea (weight wise). I use to run around with 2-3 1Dx cameras.. And that was hell.. 2x M-P240 cameras strapped to me, make my life a lot easier.
    He shot ads for Fuji when the XPro1 came out. He doesn't use that camera for his work (for obvious reasons), but if somebody came along with a digital camera that could match a Contax 645 he'd be open to trying it. I'm not saying he's going to give up on film completely but he'd at least try it. Especially since Fuji 400H keeps going insane price wise.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    One more day. Any new ideas for this announcement that we haven't already discussed?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    My opinion is that there will be no "new" camera from Leica... Whatever "new" Leica release (and whenever it will be announced) should be a FF version of the existing T...
    It is obvious that the T mount is able to bear a FF sensor and (being a mirrorless with a very wide mount - wider than Sony α7) it should be as capable (if not more) as the Sony α7 series of cameras with the new mini series of view cameras (Cambo Actus - Arca Universallis) to be used on them instead on an MFDB...
    If one thinks about it, it is of major Leica interest to have such a camera since one would expect from (the now family company) Sinar to enter & compete directly with the new developing market of the mini view cameras... One should also expect a 24mp FF sensor from Leica that would be a crop out of the new sensor for the S 007.
    Last edited by T.Dascalos; 19th October 2015 at 10:49. Reason: orthography

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    In case you have plans for tomorrow evening: don't forget to switch off the Internet ...

    Plans for tomorrow evening? No?
    Then get at 6pm (German time) yourself a drink of your choice and switch on the internet!
    Bart ...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Look who's got impatient ... first sample shot Leica SL
    Bart ...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    35 and 60 on dx would make sense for the T: I portrait focal length 90 equivalent and a standard 50 equivalent.
    The T mount is able to serve a FF sensor... It's only a wider image circle lens needed...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Look who's got impatient ... first sample shot Leica SL
    He seems to be as excited as many Leica aficionados are.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    One must wonder....
    1.Why would they ever invest on a new mount for an EVF mirrorless with 24x36 sensor, while they made the T mount (more than) wide enough to accept a FF sensor already?

    A "T" with a FF sensor it is then!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    One must wonder....
    1.Why would they ever invest on a new mount for an EVF mirrorless with 24x36 sensor, while they made the T mount (more than) wide enough to accept a FF sensor already?

    A "T" with a FF sensor it is then!
    Tomorrow we will know!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    He seems to be as excited as many Leica aficionados are.
    That's why he bought the company. Exactly what I would do if I were rich

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I sincerely hope for Leica that the camera is much better than their teaser campaign! It almost certainly has to be...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I'm curious if this camera will be of larger physical size by design to accommodate the larger lenses that would be implemented for this camera. How would prospective buyers feel about a camera that was of similar in size to a smaller FF DSLR? Would that be a deal breaker? I know it is/was for many that tried out the Sony FE System that expected Leica M sized or Micro 4/3 sized lenses.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Cat is already out of the bag. An Italian magazine posted shots of the camera and lenses but then quickly removed them (I'll bet they won't be getting a test sample soon!). Looks like a Leica A7R. Highest mag EVF yet. LUF has the threads. Personally, I'm sorta wondering why this camera was given the green light, but I suppose Leica had to move beyond rangefinder technology at some point.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I believe that many people have the wrong idea about Leica... IMO, Leica traditionally aims to offer the best IQ possible out of any manufacturer and it factors the assisting parameters (ergonomics, build quality, reliability, functionality) as high as no other maker. IMO, they try to price their equipment as low as possible, but -obviously- the quality parameters add to cost... The recent pricing policy on the S-series, is a proof of the above... They now offer better performance than ever at near half the price than when the product started its career...

    There was a very difficult path for Leica to retain its values (offering the best IQ possible) with them being late into the digital market as there was a (new) parameter involved in which they had no experience at all during the film days... that being the sensor! However... they seem to work highly on the matter as to not only catch-up, but surely to beat the competition as soon as possible and this shows again with the later introductions (S series & Q)... Another proof is that they have stick into the 6μm pixel size in all their exclusive sensors, which (I believe) they won't abandon unless they reach the level of performance that worths the Leica name... But none can argue that the more their recent products are appreciated, the better their pricing becomes!

    I believe that the new camera will have a sensor that will be very closely related to a cropped version of the S 007 series, which would mean that it would be among the best performing sensors in the FF market... As for the body pricing, I strongly believe that the build quality will justify it better than ever before and also that it can't be more than the Q (since it will have no lens) but it will be significantly less than the "M" series too (it being a "T"-series that is the introductory interchangeable lens series). Never the less, I believe that all the later Leica introductions will be of surprisingly high sensor performance from what people expect having older Leicas in mind and that the next generation of sensors will be second to none in the market. I believe that the rate they introduce new sensors one being better than the other is a proof of that and that this rate won't slow down soon...

    As a conclusion, I am sure that they won't be satisfied unless their sensors are on par with the same level of quality that accompanies the rest of the parameters they offer in their cameras and that their pricing will become better and better, as their market section keeps expanding with out ever making a compromise in quality... it's the Leica tradition! ...it's what kept them alive and kicking butts!

    P.S. I also believe that they have big plans for Sinar... and since Sinar is expected to soon enter the "mini view camera" market that is aimed to use mirrorless cameras instead of a digital back, I believe that this camera is designed to perform this task as a major target behind the design... a parameter that has being highly (and constantly) ignored by the participants in this discussion.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Cat is already out of the bag. An Italian magazine posted shots of the camera and lenses but then quickly removed them (I'll bet they won't be getting a test sample soon!). Looks like a Leica A7R. Highest mag EVF yet. LUF has the threads. Personally, I'm sorta wondering why this camera was given the green light, but I suppose Leica had to move beyond rangefinder technology at some point.
    http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/look...l-with-lenses/
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Well the good news if it is T mount is that the Leica M to T adapter should still work!! So one benefit for the T users out there...doubt too many will be using the T lenses on an SL though...
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    My opinion is that there will be no "new" camera from Leica... Whatever "new" Leica release (and whenever it will be announced) should be a FF version of the existing T...
    It is obvious that the T mount is able to bear a FF sensor and (being a mirrorless with a very wide mount - wider than Sony α7) it should be as capable (if not more) as the Sony α7 series of cameras with the new mini series of view cameras (Cambo Actus - Arca Universallis) to be used on them instead on an MFDB...
    If one thinks about it, it is of major Leica interest to have such a camera since one would expect from (the now family company) Sinar to enter & compete directly with the new developing market of the mini view cameras... One should also expect a 24mp FF sensor from Leica that would be a crop out of the new sensor for the S 007.
    I guess I should now say "bingo"!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    First pictures you can see here

    Look here! First images of the new Leica SL with lenses!!! - mirrorlessrumors

    You also can vote how you like the design - my vote was "Ugly as hell" an I mean that!

    Come on Leica, why do you have to copy Sony???? You really can do better!!!
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Copied Sony? Maybe the outside but not the inside of the camera.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    So far my reaction is .....Oh No!

    I wasn t looking for a break thru ..just an excellent Leica with EVF ...this looks like another camera built from the “parts bin” .

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    Come on Leica, why do you have to copy Sony???? You really can do better!!!
    I wish they did. No swivel screen and the flexibility. Also, it would not be funny if the touch screen gets activated with a nose while using the EVF.

    Oh, the size of that 50mm!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    And if it looked like a mini-S, then we'd be saying "Copied Panasonic!". I'll suspend disbelief until some trusted reviews come out. The appeal of the Q, and S for that matter, is not in the pictures OF the cameras. User experience and lenses!

    --Matt
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    And if it looked like a mini-S, then we'd be saying "Copied Panasonic!". I'll suspend disbelief until some trusted reviews come out. The appeal of the Q, and S for that matter, is not in the pictures OF the cameras. User experience and lenses!

    --Matt
    Panasonic's G6 looks like a mini-S

    http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pa..._Lumix_DMC_G6/

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    So far my reaction is .....Oh No!

    I wasn t looking for a break thru ..just an excellent Leica with EVF ...this looks like another camera built from the “parts bin” .
    It looks about like a rebadged Sony A7R2 without 42MP, IBIS, and tilt screen.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Panasonic's G6 looks like a mini-S

    Panasonic Lumix G6 review | Cameralabs
    Well, a design like the G6 would have appealed much more to my taste! But I know tastes are different

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Copied Sony? Maybe the outside but not the inside of the camera.
    Yes, on top of the design failure they do inside not even come close to the Sony A7rII

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Wow, some strong reactions here already! I'm waiting for an actual review... come on Jono, what's your take? ???

    Kind regards

    Brian
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    This reminds me of every Apple launch ever. It's ugly! It's not innovative! It's too expensive!

    Then reviews come out.

    Then people use them.

    Then they're the best.

    I HOPE Leica is copying Apple in targeting the photographer experience subject to excellent results, even if the specs aren't in first place. And if the lenses are S-quality?

    When do the review embargoes end? At the announcement? At midnight?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I'm interested in the hands on reviews by neutral sources although I think what people in the Leica camp don't say is telling as well. No doubt the EVF and menu system will be agreeable with those with Leica roots (especially after how polarizing views on the T system are.) I hope it brings about another option for Leica users with eyes that aren't good enough to manually focus fast M lenses but want to stay in the Leica ecosystem...

    I'm also sort of wondering if Sony will attempt to rain on the parade today like they did with the Q announcement as well.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Of course we will “wait for the reviews” but ergonomics are important . How the camera feels in my hand and balances is important to me . I absolutely hate small body and large lenses . This isn t new stuff .....I don t favor the M bodies with the Noctilux for example while I enjoy the Q .

    When the S2 came out with 70S lens ...I could close my eyes and pick up the camera , feel the shutter vibration . I could look thru the finder and see with great clarity . The Nikon D810 has terrific ergonomics and the Df doesn t .

    Maybe with a grip but this looks to have the form or the Sony (which I don t like at all) and large lenses . Look at the relative size of the 50/1.4 Summilux .

    If I needed the EVF to focus ...(critical to many ) ....or I was waiting for a Leica with AF ....maybe . But this looks to be a very high cost alternative .

    I ve had every Leica SL since the first one and have been bugging my dealer for this camera for months .....so far disappointed by initial design decisions on form and lens size .

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    24mp. Contrast detect AF. Very large and variable aperture zooms. What is admittedly probably a great VF. $10,000 for a kit. Are you out of your MINDS???? Just throw them up for sale in Hong Kong, Dubai, and Monaco. This thing is DOA in the USA. I'll keep saving my pennies for the RX1RII.


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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Wow, some strong reactions here already! I'm waiting for an actual review... come on Jono, what's your take? ???

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    My problem is with the look of this camera and the feel which will obviously result somehow from that look. As others already mentioned, this is FF and once you use FF lenses, especially telecoms, then it becomes immediately important how easy such a camera can be held and operated. The Leica S has that, the Leica R8 and R9 had it, as well as the Leicaflex SL from 1960's. So Leica definitely knows how to build ergonomic and also good looking cameras!

    And now this??? This is why I am upset. And this could have been the differentiator for me against Sony and their FE line of cameras. Which would mean much more to me than having the greatest and latest sensor with most MP and most AF points - I actually do not care so much.

    So I was actually expecting a kind of a mini S, maybe if the wanted to do something nostalgic give it a bit more the look of a mini S on Leicaflex SL steroids. But not another tiny body with obviously tiny battery and hence short battery life.

    But maybe I am just wrong and the new camera turns out to be the all singing and dancing queen and handles even superbly albeit the look we have so far, but my hope is not high ....
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    This reminds me of every Apple launch ever. It's ugly! It's not innovative! It's too expensive!

    Then reviews come out.

    Then people use them.

    Then they're the best.

    I HOPE Leica is copying Apple in targeting the photographer experience subject to excellent results, even if the specs aren't in first place. And if the lenses are S-quality?

    When do the review embargoes end? At the announcement? At midnight?
    I think only the Q has experienced that. The T was met with head scratches. Reviews for X cameras are full of apologies for poor performance because the reviewers get charmed by one thing or another, and now you never see them in the wild. The M doesn't count because it stands apart. Sort of the same with the S. Those are expensive enough that if you want one you don't need a review to tell you to buy a 645Z instead, you're gonna get the Leica. Leica hasn't been able to achieve 'best' status at anything except the things they do, that nobody else is doing. Especially now that Zeiss is making Otus lenses. Like, I love the M, film M's, the mono, and the Q. But the rest, and now this SL... are the design teams full of yes men? Because that's how you end up with cameras with a ton of compromises that you except your 'loyal fans' to simply ignore.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Wow, some strong reactions here already! I'm waiting for an actual review... come on Jono, what's your take? ???

    Kind regards

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    just add proper TTL and leaf shutter.....then leica automatically won over half the studio pro's lol
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    This appears to be a Sony A7 body with a Leica T mount and the Q internals for a mere $6,900 Euros. The lenses do not appear to have a manual aperture ring and do appear to be huge. I agree with others that this is one camera Leica is not likely to have to worry about demand exceeding production. Even if they had done the Q body with the T mount and a couple of primes they would have had a better market prospect.

    Frankly, I don't care what the reviewers say about it I would not pay over $10K for this camera with a lens. Thank goodness Leica didn't price the Q as badly. Bottom line this is not a Q killer (I know they would not want to kill the Q) nor is it a Sony A7RII killer.
    V/r John
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    This appears to be a Sony A7 body with a Leica T mount and the Q internals for a mere $6,900 Euros. The lenses do not appear to have a manual aperture ring and do appear to be huge. I agree with others that this is one camera Leica is not likely to have to worry about demand exceeding production. Even if they had done the Q body with the T mount and a couple of primes they would have had a better market prospect.

    Frankly, I don't care what the reviewers say about it I would not pay over $10K for this camera with a lens. Thank goodness Leica didn't price the Q as badly. Bottom line this is not a Q killer (I know they would not want to kill the Q) nor is it a Sony A7RII killer.
    I agree. How much sharper could the zooms be? How much more pleasing, the SOOC file color? (I think BTW that Sony has great color, same with Nikon and it doesn't matter because VSCO & Mastin Labs are the great levelers). Is anyone looking at A7RII files and thinking, Leica would do 10x better? I really expected Leica to offer something different here. Leica needs to fire some people.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    I agree. How much sharper could the zooms be? How much more pleasing, the SOOC file color? (I think BTW that Sony has great color, same with Nikon and it doesn't matter because VSCO & Mastin Labs are the great levelers). Is anyone looking at A7RII files and thinking, Leica would do 10x better? I really expected Leica to offer something different here. Leica needs to fire some people.
    On some levelI feel somewhat jaded because this is the camera that I wanted say 3 or 4 years ago when I was still primarily a Leica user. I think that they missed the price point completely but I'm sure that this will be a capable product albeit not "cutting edge."

    It sort of shows that the niche market and boutique prices have their place but I sort of view these products on the same marketing plane as the celestial Hasselblad cameras. Capable photographic equipment but at unrealistic prices due to the label. Everyone has to compete in the market IF THERE'S DIRECT COMPETITION whether it's boutique or not.

    This could be a real commercial winner in the $3500-4500 range for the body but spec wise it's still going to get compared to the A7II as much as the A7RII on features. That camera retails for around $1500 and for a little more with the kit lens. Maybe Panasonic will offer a sensibly priced version like they did with the 4/3 cameras.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I find it a bit strange to come out with a lens system based on 2 zooms and only one prime.
    To me, Leica is all about image quality, and I don't see how the initial lens line-up is going to be at the forefront of IQ for mirrorless.
    Had they come out with one zoom (the 24-90 range is cool), PLUS a trio of 35mm, 50mm and 85mm Autofocus summiluxes, then yeah, maybe. Why didn't they do that ? They already have killer optical designs for FF primes for the M, and they didn't leverage on those. Tst, tst, tst.

    Now, it's a battle of A7R + Batis + the few nice Sony/Zeiss against the Leica SL with a Zoom. I don't think Leica is going to win that one...
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    On some levelI feel somewhat jaded because this is the camera that I wanted say 3 or 4 years ago when I was still primarily a Leica user. I think that they missed the price point completely but I'm sure that this will be a capable product albeit not "cutting edge."

    It sort of shows that the niche market and boutique prices have their place but I sort of view these products on the same marketing plane as the celestial Hasselblad cameras. Capable photographic equipment but at unrealistic prices due to the label. Everyone has to compete in the market IF THERE'S DIRECT COMPETITION whether it's boutique or not.

    This could be a real commercial winner in the $3500-4500 range for the body but spec wise it's still going to get compared to the A7II as much as the A7RII on features. That camera retails for around $1500 and for a little more with the kit lens. Maybe Panasonic will offer a sensibly priced version like they did with the 4/3 cameras.
    Yes. People forget that $4500 dollars is a lot for a mirrorless, even if it is full frame. This product is not unique. I am guessing but I bet it will perform in line with what's available already, with slightly better lenses in their class than average. I shoot with a mirrorless camera professionally (I use an A7II & a D750 at my weddings), and this is too expensive for me, tax write off or no. This should certainly cost $5,000 with the 50mm lens. That would still be boutique pricing, but I could at least justify it on some level.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Only a few minutes, will we have been duped by the pre-announcemnt images?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    If nothing more than an improved EVF, then Leica has just put sales $ into Sony's hands, handsdown. One would expect much more than that for around $7k versus the improved A7R2 for around $3k. Anyway you hack it that is double the price for what-better EVF, lower MP sensor, better menu perhaps, maybe better ergonomics, greater ISO-unknown as yet, faster AF-unknown as yet, high priced zoom lenses and an Otus sized 50/1.4.

    In today's world with Zeiss bringing out superb FE lenses, Leica's quality edge had been diminished if not forgotten by many.

    I do hope reviewers have something phenomenal up their sleeves because this could be embarrassing. I know many tout the S-007, but after a years wait that is also too little too late and with that being the flagship model every other Leica has to have a sensor way lower than the S's lame 37.5 MP, ergo 24MP. I like most agreed with the MP mantra until I got the 645Z.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Only a few minutes, will we have been duped by the pre-announcemnt images?
    I sure hope so if by duped you mean something better and more imaginitive will be the real SL.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    This camera seems to follow the losing philosophy of the X series where they repackage the same electronics in a different body with minor tweaks. It doesn't appear to have worked very well there. Q's with different FL lenses would have been a better strategy, I think. The Q is a clear market winner, why not leverage off of that (other than that they don't seem capable of producing many)? Dealers I have spoken with are furious at Leica over the poor availability of the Q. They finally produce a camera buyers want and they can't get them to sell. Don't worry dealers you will have plenty of SLs to sell.
    V/r John
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I sure hope so if by duped you mean something better and more imaginitive will be the real SL.
    Unfortunately, I doubt it. Why pull the images and article without explanation unless Leica insisted on it?
    V/r John
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    It would be complete marketing genius to fake a rumored camera that is disappointing only to blow everyone away with the real thing. I thought they would do that with the Vario, but then they actually released the Vario.
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