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Thread: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    If nothing more than an improved EVF, then Leica has just put sales $ into Sony's hands, handsdown. One would expect much more than that for around $7k versus the improved A7R2 for around $3k. Anyway you hack it that is double the price for what-better EVF, lower MP sensor, better menu perhaps, maybe better ergonomics, greater ISO-unknown as yet, faster AF-unknown as yet, high priced zoom lenses and an Otus sized 50/1.4.

    In today's world with Zeiss bringing out superb FE lenses, Leica's quality edge had been diminished if not forgotten by many.

    I do hope reviewers have something phenomenal up their sleeves because this could be embarrassing. I know many tout the S-007, but after a years wait that is also too little too late and with that being the flagship model every other Leica has to have a sensor way lower than the S's lame 37.5 MP, ergo 24MP. I like most agreed with the MP mantra until I got the 645Z.
    Thanks Lou.
    Could you elaborate just a bit what excites you about the 645Z and what you use it for.
    Which other cameras do you currently use?
    TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    It would be complete marketing genius to fake a rumored camera that is disappointing only to blow everyone away with the real thing. I thought they would do that with the Vario, but then they actually released the Vario.
    Similarly a French publications leaked the X-Vario prior to the official release.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Lou.
    Could you elaborate just a bit what excites you about the 645Z and what you use it for.
    Which other cameras do you currently use?
    TIA.
    K-H
    I mainly use the 645Z for landscape. Many of the older lenses even work wonders on this 51Mp beaut such as the FA 150/2.8 and the A 35/3.5. Even the 75mm (60 equiv) brand new cost me only $600. The 35 lens has even worked well for street work as it's a 28mm FL equivalent. The new 645 lenses are not cheap, but my favorite is the 28-45, roughly a 22-35mm equivalent. The 55/2.8 is super sharp and the 90 Macro is also sharp as heck. All these last lenses are weather sealed and have huge o-rings at lens base. The body has 72 weather seal points and recently at the North Grand Canyon in a sideways rain storm it was flawless whereas most other users around were almost afraid to use their Phase, Canikons for fear of the obvious. The only other guy who like me did not care has the A7R and by now should also have the new one.

    I still have the RX-1 and also now the Q. Personally, I like 35mm FL best for street.

    Then I have the M-P and M246. Due to my failing eyesight I use the EVF most often and just carry extra batteries. I have reduced my inventory of M and R lenses considerably and probably will continue to do so.
    Last edited by algrove; 20th October 2015 at 12:44.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    I find it a bit strange to come out with a lens system based on 2 zooms and only one prime.
    To me, Leica is all about image quality, and I don't see how the initial lens line-up is going to be at the forefront of IQ for mirrorless.
    Had they come out with one zoom (the 24-90 range is cool), PLUS a trio of 35mm, 50mm and 85mm Autofocus summiluxes, then yeah, maybe. Why didn't they do that ? They already have killer optical designs for FF primes for the M, and they didn't leverage on those. Tst, tst, tst.

    Now, it's a battle of A7R + Batis + the few nice Sony/Zeiss against the Leica SL with a Zoom. I don't think Leica is going to win that one...
    What you mention (that they already have killer optical designs), is exactly the reason why they went for zooms... They have plenty of primes to use on it via adapters.... That way they attract faithful to the firm customers into the new camera too...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I love new camera releases, certainly brings out interesting responses from people, especially before we have heard from anyone who has actually held the thing, makes me laugh!

    Who knows, this could have high ISO performance like the A7s with more resolution, it could play well with other leica lenses, I happen to agree with the above that if it works with exiting lenses then releasing zooms that compliment is a smart idea. It does have a similar form factor to the Sony but that's nothing new, canon's look like nikons, I don't think it's a bad thing.

    Anyway, it's just a camera, buy it, don't buy it, the world will still spin!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Ok its on order ....

    multifunction grip solves my issue with ergonomics

    emphasis on camera speed most important has to be responsive to do 11FPS

    camera looks good from other angles more like the Q

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    The Leica SL | getDPI Jono's test...

    <edited to point to his review on our forum>
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Would be interesting to know if the focus point is movable in the EVF as other DSLR's. That would certainly make for an interesting proposition vis-a-vis M lenses. Lots of questions now that announcement is official but must be patient...

    Addendum: I've now read Jono's review. Super job as usual! I'm going to go out on a limb and predict this thing will sell like hotcakes. Probably not in my future, however, as I do need more mp's for my landscape work and then what would I do with my M-P? Well, lots of time to think about that.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Just seen the review and I think it's fabulous ...
    Bart ...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    $12,400 with the 24-90mm lens. The only thing that exceeded my expectations is the price. Complete madness.

    Oh and that zoom. It's bigger than a house!
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Adapter for S lenses is interesting, twin sd cards is interesting, it's possible it could be a reasonable backup camera to stick on existing lenses. Decent battery life as well, these are quite key things but I'm not likely to buy it as I have what I want.

    It looks a decent package of features and capabilities though.

    Mat

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    10 bit 4:2:2 video out via HDMI at up to ISO 50,000 is also interesting...in my experience Leica is much more conservative about their ISO than Sony, so it could be pretty usable at that max ISO. It's also Cinema 4k versus UHD...I guess they are probably using the Super 35mm crop like in the A7RII, but perhaps full frame? If so, it could be more interesting. Around 7000-8000 US or so is pretty steep though, it must be said! You can just take your pick of used S bodies for less than that these days.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Seems like a great camera that many won't be able to afford which is something of a shame on some level.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    It's a bit of a big b*st*rd, isn't it?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Leica website page.

    https://no-detour.leica-camera.com/e...t_Announcement

    I'm quite impressed actually, move away from the mp war and it appears to have a lot of great features, it certainly looks like it can handle a lot of situations, video specs look good too, PL mount, S mount, M and R too, it does look like it could be a winner for people who want all those things.

    Mat

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    It's a bit of a big b*st*rd, isn't it?

    LouisB
    Haha, Louis, you might need to man up, it's a camera, not a 3 bed semi!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    The best cure for GAS.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    If it was 42mpx or even 36 it would make more sense to me but it's way out of my budget range and terrible ROI for me. Not even on a good day could I justify it but I wish those that can, happy shooting.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    The best cure for GAS.
    No the worst the accessories would eat you alive. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Will it come in chrome ...
    Bart ...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Take a look at the Gizmodo & Leica rumors review for some actual experiences. AF claim for instance is not true.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    It's a bit of a big b*st*rd, isn't it?

    LouisB
    Yeah the 24-90 takes a 82mm filter. I wonder if the 90-280 will take a 82, 86, 95, or 105mm filter.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I am not sure whether I am interested in a zoom lens that weighs more than 1 KG...

    Also the camera body is not exactly light...

    I believe I will stick with the S2, M9, Q and T for the time being...

    Bold move from Leica but also given the price I don't see it being very successful straight away, perhaps once more primes become available....

    A killer 35mm or 50mm could make me re-evaluate everything though...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Cheapest accessory - LCD protector -$25.

    Body cap $48.

    Battery $250.

    Pass.

    I still have my SL2 and the battery has not been replaced in years. still going strong.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    The S adapter is more important than it looks at first site... It means that the Sinar entrance to the mini view camera market (like the Actus) will be fully electronic having this as an MFDB and S series lenses... It also means that Hasselblad H & Contax 645 lenses will be fully compatible... It may also mean that a future model that will be able to export RAW video will be able to serve as an excellent cinema camera (in combination with a Sinar view camera or without one) able to compete with RED & Arri....
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Will it come in chrome ...
    No it's in Gold only, or should be at that price!!
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    For me, its the EVF and s-adaptor that attract me. Because now i know someone like fringer will make a S-FE adaptor, may even allow for leaf shutter....

    Edit: So....heres an idea..... S glass vs otus......
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHDR View Post
    For me, its the EVF and s-adaptor that attract me. Because now i know someone like fringer will make a S-FE adaptor, may even allow for leaf shutter....

    Edit: So....heres an idea..... S glass vs otus......
    It will be hard to compare because of the format and speed change. A more apt comparison would be the 50/1.4 Leica for this camera vs the Otus. Of course the 50 is still forthcoming apparently.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Viewfinder resolution... Leica claims "SXAG, 4.4 MP".

    That's of course up to interpretation. My guess is that's a typo, should be SXGA. Today's convention is to actually count number of dots, so that would be 4.4 million dots. What's called SXGA+ is 1400x1050 or 4.41 million dots, so that would be my guess.

    So it's still far from FHD which I would consider a minimum to match a good optical viewfinder.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I can see the 11 fps appealing to some and also those familiar with the S system.

    As for M and R lenses, since they are all manual, I see limited need for this body with them. That said if someone wanted to rid themselves of M digital bodies, then they could the best of all Leica worlds I suppose. I will have to actually touch it and see how the grip feels since with every Leica camera since the M9 my hand grip feels better when using a grip.

    Anyone seen official Leica US pricing on body and the 2 zooms?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I can see the 11 fps appealing to some and also those familiar with the S system.

    As for M and R lenses, since they are all manual, I see limited need for this body with them. That said if someone wanted to rid themselves of M digital bodies, then they could the best of all Leica worlds I suppose. I will have to actually touch it and see how the grip feels since with every Leica camera since the M9 my hand grip feels better when using a grip.

    Anyone seen official Leica US pricing on body and the 2 zooms?
    Only the 24-90 will be available this year I believe and they're running about $12,500 (body and lens.)
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    As one who makes his living with an S, T & M, I actually see this as a likely welcome and useful tool that covers a LOT of bases, especially (for me) since it tethers with LIS as well.


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    Last edited by rsmphoto; 20th October 2015 at 13:38.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    The Leica SL | getDPI Jono's test...

    <edited to point to his review on our forum>
    Mat, thanks for that correction. I think I first saw it on a Leica site but Jono's images look much better on this site, not tongue-in-cheek either, seriously.

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    A very logical camera from Leica, and a camera that offers most of what mirrorless haven't included so far. If I could afford it, I would buy it. I suppose somebody will make an F-mount adapter soon, enabling me to live with Nikon glass to start with.

    I don't understand the complaints about the price. This is around what a Nikon D3X sold for new, and 2008 dollars were more expensive than the 2015 variety that people use nowadays. And this camera does include features that neither ancient or current Nikons nor the toys from Sony offer. The Canon EOS C was more than twice the price of the Leica when it was launched three years ago.

    The lens isn't much heavier than the Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8, and although the Nikkor is f/2.8 all the way, it stops at 70mm. Having 90mm included makes the Leica a very versatile lens. The Sony 24-70mm f/4 is obviously much lighter. That's normal for lenses with a smaller aperture and shorter reach. The A-mount 24-70mm f/2.8 is almost as heavy as the Leica.

    If you ask me, this is the first all-out professional mirrorless camera for those who can't live without full frame. And although I can't afford one, I know that I will count my pennies on a daily basis, just in case I stumble over 7,000 dollars that I mysteriously had forgotten about
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Intensely disappointed. This is probably the ugliest camera that Leica has produced, ever.

    I can stomach poor screen resolution, quirks of electronics, but an ugly camera like that? No way. Then I will just get the ugly Sony instead.

    It is a total shame, if we remember the modern classic design of the M9-P, the absolutely zenith of aesthetics of digital cameras. Can we even put those two cameras together and claim they have the same inheritance? Or if we look at the beauty of the S cameras, which absolutely stand for the best aesthetics a DSLR can achieve.

    Moreover, if a mirrorless camera is that big and heavy with monstrous lenses, why not just get a Nikon D810 with more pixels and established reliability? What is the point of going mirrorless to deal with EVF?

    The entire design team has to be fired.

    I am feeling that something is changing in German industry. Think of VW, BMW and so on. They are becoming somewhat obsessed with the idea of gaining market shares, no longer satisfied with their niche.

    Sad.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Lovely review, thank you Jono. Will have to keep on buying the lottery then.
    Just one thing; I liked the grain in the wedding party shots but I find there was more in the 1600ISO shots than in the 5000ISO image. Perhaps shot at 6400?

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    And this camera does include features that neither ancient or current Nikons nor the toys from Sony offer.
    "Toys" that are very sophisticated and immensely joyful to use.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Suffice it to say that opinions about Leica tend to be strong and divided...
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I've got to agree: the Sony is ugly.
    The SL ? Wonderful modern design, I like it.
    No I'm not disappointed
    Bart ...

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    After seeing the actual size of the SL and studying all the features in more detail, I must say it does no longer look to bad, maybe actually a very good move by Leica. I would have opted for a more S-like design though and I need to hold one to see how it really feels in hand, but one of the most appealing features for me is that it is considerably larger than the Sony A7-series. So it might be better to hold and definitely allows for a larger battery which some reviewers already managed to squeeze out more that 700 shots - so far world class for mirrorless battery life.

    I have no issue with 24MP etc., I like what I see from the EVF side, I am still kind of skeptical if it will become a big success just because of the price - BUT the biggest drawback for me is the native lens ecosystem. This is pretty lame and I mean there need to be several high speed SL primes available to make this a compelling system. Sure you can now mount old R lenses and M lenses, but then again this only gives MF and this is not really what I would expect for such a high price.

    And finally the price - sure it is a Leica but around €10.000.- for a camera and standard zoom lens this is very high and when estimating what a system with 3 primes and 2 zooms results in this becomes soon a no go for me. And I guess I will not be alone here ...

    Still not convinced!

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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Is it just me or has the whole photographic world become accustomed to expensive (almost disposable in 5 years) camera bodies?.
    I've always known Leica as expensive (pre M8), then outrageously expensive as digital M progressed. But to my mind this SL and the Zoom for $12.5K is off the scale.
    Good luck to those who are brave enough to drop the serious wedge, I hope your expectations are met and exceeded for this price bracket.

    In saying the above, still congrats to Leica on their new system, the controls and minimalist approach in the design I quite like. However I am unlikely to ever be in a position to ever consider or even own any Leica equipment again.
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    I've got to agree: the Sony is ugly.
    The SL ? Wonderful modern design, I like it.
    No I'm not disappointed
    It is close to the PEntax K01, very industrial.
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  44. #194
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    So - Leica nuts will buy it and price sensitive riff raff Sony shooters will decry it as being too expensive - nothing new here...move right along folks
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  45. #195
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    From a purely aesthetic point of view, the M9-P/Monochrom was the pinnacle of beauty, really pieces of art.

    The bulk of the 240 was already going toward a more functional/geeky, less pretty direction. I get the 240 for the improvements, but always hated the bulk and added weight.

    The Q, which I was initially really intrigued by all its functionality and almost pulled the trigger, repelled me when I handled the real machine at a store. Aesthetically, it is such a huge step back from the M. It is more square, more hollow, more sterile looking. (Moreover, the EVF, albeit better than most, is still no comparison with a OVF.)

    And now this?? SL?

    What is going on? What has gone wrong?

  46. #196
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Owning several M , S and T lenses the SL looks like a great body where I could use all my lenses. But then I think S lenses balance best on S body, M lenses work best with rangefinder and T-lenses give me 16mp on the much smaller T-body.

    The images from Jono look great though. I have not yet come to a conclusion, if this camera makes sense for me. It would make sense if native SL lenses and sensor would be close IQ to the S system , so I could replace the S with a SL.
    I would have to handle the zoom to see how big it the range of 24-90 seems very flexible.
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  47. #197
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    A very logical camera from Leica, and a camera that offers most of what mirrorless haven't included so far.
    Do you mean, like:

    1. Light weight
    2. Compact size
    3. IBIS
    4. Phase detect AF
    5. Tilting LCD
    6. High resolution sensor
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  48. #198
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    I could not believe they did this at first. Then I read Jono, BJP, K Dowling and Reid and I see the allure -to some. All round I do not see the crispness in M images that I see in the 28-90 SL lens images on any site.

    Then I find out it is heavier which for me is going in the opposite direction I want to go. Then lenses after about a year and then only 3, that turns me off for now. Now I know I'm not a pro and proud of it!

  49. #199
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I could not believe they did this at first. Then I read Jono, BJP, K Dowling and Reid and I see the allure -to some. All round I do not see the crispness in M images that I see in the 28-90 SL lens images on any site.

    Then I find out it is heavier which for me is going in the opposite direction I want to go. Then lenses after about a year and then only 3, that turns me off for now. Now I know I'm not a pro and proud of it!
    "Steve Huff says:
    October 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm
    Well, Reid is VERY VERY tight with Leica, same as a couple others who do reviews..(as in, borderline working for them in some ways) – you will never see a negative Reid leica review. If you want the name, have the cash, and only care about the name, then sure, go for it. I am sure it is lovely. If you want better specs, and performance while spending much less and getting the same body style in a smaller package, the A7RII is the one to beat in the full frame mirrorless game. If this were $3500 body and $2000 for the lenses it could have been a home run. But at $12500 for the body and slow large zoom… it’s a non starter IMO."

    Steve's take on the SL:

    » The New Leica SL Announced. My thoughts.

  50. #200
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    Re: Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Owning several M , S and T lenses the SL looks like a great body where I could use all my lenses. But then I think S lenses balance best on S body, M lenses work best with rangefinder and T-lenses give me 16mp on the much smaller T-body.

    The images from Jono look great though. I have not yet come to a conclusion, if this camera makes sense for me. It would make sense if native SL lenses and sensor would be close IQ to the S system , so I could replace the S with a SL.
    I would have to handle the zoom to see how big it the range of 24-90 seems very flexible.
    I have several S lenses and will be buying a new 120mm CS lens again, the previous one I sent back. I have three R lenses, my wife shoots her T and she has her lenses. It's logical for myself to buy the SL and use the new SL as a backup for my s2, and use my M and R lenses on a new weatherproof platform. The price is steep, but I expected the price to be high.

    I cannot decide if I want the SL more than I want to get the S007, in addition to my Trusty S2 I do not want to part with.
    I can envision myself using my S100mm. for people work in natural light on the SL. I want to use the S120 Makro on a new hi ISO sensor. I need to try the camera before making any decisions and I wonder if it will be readily available in shops.
    Yevgeny

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