Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

[JorisV]

It's logical for myself to buy the SL and use the new SL as a backup for my s2, and use my M and R lenses on a new weatherproof platform.
Yevgeny

I wonder how much the S-adapter is going to cost and how well balanced the S lenses will be on the SL.

If the experience is good this could be an interesting upgrade path for existing S2 owners.

 

[Yevgeny NP]

I wonder how much the S-adapter is going to cost and how well balanced the S lenses will be on the SL.

If the experience is good this could be an interesting upgrade path for existing S2 owners.

My belief is that the adapters shall be free with the camera, which will be shipped with one heavy zoom. A lot of people will want to use the adapted lenses. The full frame AF primes for the SL are the S primes.

I also think that Leica owe us free SL-R adapters for their failure with the R10!! It's not forgotten by R-users.

The R and S adapters shall be included in the kit with that zoom APO lens. If not, it's a joke of a system camera!!!

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

"Toys" that are very sophisticated and immensely joyful to use.

The "toy" word was a trap, to see if you were awake, Vivek :ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Do you mean, like:

1. Light weight
2. Compact size
3. IBIS
4. Phase detect AF
5. Tilting LCD
6. High resolution sensor

No, I mean:

1. Fast frame rate
2. Great build quality
3. Good ergonomics
4. Top LCD
5. Deep buffer
6. Proper connections, including full size HDMI and flash sync
7. 4K, both types
8. Reasonably sized battery
9. 2 SD cards
10. All the goodies in one model (No R or S needed for improved this and that)

As for:

1. Light weight (It's lighter than the D810, D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D all of them, etc.)
2. Compact size (It's smaller than all of the above as well, but probably large enough for my hands.)
3. IBIS (It lacks IBIS like most pro cameras. It would be nice to have, but I've never had it nor missed it.)
4. Phase detect AF (Yup, would have loved that)
5. Tilting LCD (My guess: They thought it wouldn't be strong enough for the intended use. There are arguments going both ways.)
6. High resolution sensor (Higher resolution than D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D III, A7s II etc.)

 

[msadat]

actually if leica ships the m and s adapters with the camera at no extra charge, it makes much more appealing for everybody. they will sell more cameras, and lenses of all sorts.

to charge 7k for a body that sony redoes every 6 months is too much.

 

[msadat]

also the viewfinder for sure made in japan, and i think we will see it in the next olympus em1 and fuji xt-1

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

to charge 7k for a body that sony redoes every 6 months is too much.

But that's the whole point. Buying Sony to do most of what this camera does, you would first have had to buy an A7 for the 24MP two years ago, then an A7s 18 months ago to do 4K video, but you needed a $2K recorder for that, and then again an A7r II to do most of those things with one camera, although the Sony won't do 11fps even if you feed it with grain fed beef and Baron Philippe de Rothschild Mouton Cadet at every meal.

Did I mention the tiny batteries of the Sony?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Oh, and Ming's review is up:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21/premiere-review-2015-leica-sl-601/#more-11859

 

[ohnri]

No, I mean:

1. Fast frame rate
2. Great build quality
3. Good ergonomics
4. Top LCD
5. Deep buffer
6. Proper connections, including full size HDMI and flash sync
7. 4K, both types
8. Reasonably sized battery
9. All the goodies in one model (No R or S needed for improved this and that)

As for:

1. Light weight (It's lighter than the D810, D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D all of them, etc.)
2. Compact size (It's smaller than all of the above as well, but probably large enough for my hands.)
3. IBIS (It lacks IBIS like most pro cameras. It would be nice to have, but I've never had it nor missed it.)
4. Phase detect AF (Yup, would have loved that)
5. Tilting LCD (My guess: They thought it wouldn't be strong enough for the intended use. There are arguments going both ways.)
6. High resolution sensor (Higher resolution than D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D III, A7s II etc.)

Almost every one of these features from both lists have been available for some time in the excellent Samsung NX1.

Plus, more than one lens.

It looks like an intriguing camera for owners of Leica glass that want a mirrorless solution.

Hopefully, it will push Sony and the other camera makers to up their game just by its mere existence.

-Bill

 

[msadat]

you can only compare this camera to the a7rii, the others are older model.

But that's the whole point. Buying Sony to do most of what this camera does, you would first have had to buy an A7 for the 24MP two years ago, then an A7s 18 months ago to do 4K video, but you needed a $2K recorder for that, and then again an A7r II to do most of those things with one camera, although the Sony won't do 11fps even if you feed it with grain fed beef and Baron Philippe de Rothschild Mouton Cadet at every meal.

Did I mention the tiny batteries of the Sony?

 

[Zony user]

No, I mean:

1. Fast frame rate
2. Great build quality
3. Good ergonomics
4. Top LCD
5. Deep buffer
6. Proper connections, including full size HDMI and flash sync
7. 4K, both types
8. Reasonably sized battery
9. All the goodies in one model (No R or S needed for improved this and that)

As for:

1. Light weight (It's lighter than the D810, D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D all of them, etc.)
2. Compact size (It's smaller than all of the above as well, but probably large enough for my hands.)
3. IBIS (It lacks IBIS like most pro cameras. It would be nice to have, but I've never had it nor missed it.)
4. Phase detect AF (Yup, would have loved that)
5. Tilting LCD (My guess: They thought it wouldn't be strong enough for the intended use. There are arguments going both ways.)
6. High resolution sensor (Higher resolution than D4s, EOS 1D X, EOS 1D C, EOS 5D III, A7s II etc.)

To be fair, you said "a camera that offers most of what mirrorless haven't included so far" And now you've including DSLR's in your response. Not sure about "good ergonomics" either. There are multiple reviews already claiming that the grip puts alot of strain on the wrist. And no tilting screen makes this a poor choice for videographers.

The biggest issue I see though, is that there is only one AF lens to choose from. And boy is that glass huge!

 

[peterb]

I dunno...seems to me a bit chunky, like the first Leica SLR. Only after the third iteration did Leica finally get into the groove of designing a camera that started to feel more human scaled.

As it stands right now with its lenses, suddenly my Canon 6D with the Sigma 35mm Art lens doesn't seem so big.

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

Hey it's cheaper than an r9 and a dmr.

 

[rsmphoto]

Intensely disappointed. This is probably the ugliest camera that Leica has produced, ever.

I can stomach poor screen resolution, quirks of electronics, but an ugly camera like that? No way. Then I will just get the ugly Sony instead.

It is a total shame, if we remember the modern classic design of the M9-P, the absolutely zenith of aesthetics of digital cameras. Can we even put those two cameras together and claim they have the same inheritance? Or if we look at the beauty of the S cameras, which absolutely stand for the best aesthetics a DSLR can achieve.

Moreover, if a mirrorless camera is that big and heavy with monstrous lenses, why not just get a Nikon D810 with more pixels and established reliability? What is the point of going mirrorless to deal with EVF?

The entire design team has to be fired.

I am feeling that something is changing in German industry. Think of VW, BMW and so on. They are becoming somewhat obsessed with the idea of gaining market shares, no longer satisfied with their niche.

Sad.

Hmm, interesting, I never really cared what a camera looked like. It was how it handled, operated, and what I could (and can) create with it that has always mattered.

 

[Zony user]

I posted this another forum also, but at this point I think it's quite obvious that Leica's new partner is Samsung, who can make sensors, processors, and LCD's in-house. Everything about this camera, including the high frame/buffer rates, screams "full-frame NX-1" to me. The biggest give-away was the Korean print on the base-plate of the Leica Q.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Almost every one of these features from both lists have been available for some time in the excellent Samsung NX1.

Plus, more than one lens.

It looks like an intriguing camera for owners of Leica glass that want a mirrorless solution.

Hopefully, it will push Sony and the other camera makers to up their game just by its mere existence.

-Bill

What I find troubling with regards to Sony's answer to this is that they have already, within a time frame of two years, launched 6 - six - more or less overlapping versions of the A7. Still, this single model from Leica seems to be a better all-round option.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

It's lighter than a D810 by a whopping 1.16 oz. and with the 24-90 it is actually heavier than the D810 with the stellar new 24-70.

It's too big, too heavy and way too expensive for what it is.

Yup, it's basically the same weight as the D810, a camera that I'm very comfortable with. The lens having 20mm more reach is a huge bonus, meaning that I will often be able to skip a separate portrait lens. In many ways, it mimics the PanaLeica 14-50mm f/2.8-3.5 for 4/3, my all-time favourite zoom lens.

And for what it is:
It's a 24 megapixel, 11 fps camera with a 4 megapixel viewfinder that also shoots 4K video (both formats) and 120 fps 1080 HD video. I would like to see other cameras that do this at a lower weight/smaller size, with the same build quality and weather sealing.

 

[lambert]

Hmm, interesting, I never really cared what a camera looked like. It was how it handled, operated, and what I could (and can) create with it that has always mattered.

Well, there's plenty to handle at 2kg or 4.4lbs with lens. Perhaps this person has really small hands:

Image from DP Review

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Well, there's plenty to handle at 2kg or 4.4lbs with lens. Perhaps this person has really small hands:

Image from DP Review

If size and weight were prime concerns when developing this camera, they wouldn't have paired it with a 24-90mm f/2.8-4.0 lens, a lens that is bound to be large, particularly when Leicas quality requirements are added. This camera is clearly aimed as a tool for working photographers. Unless Canon or Nikon comes up with something similar at half the price, I'm rather sure that this will become a success. A Leica style success, but a success nonetheless.

Remember when the S2 was launched? Not many saw the logic in that camera. Now, it's a well established part of the camera landscape.

 

[biglouis]

I just don't get the value proposition for a professional.

My niece got married on Saturday. The professional was toting a bog standard Nikon pro body and had a smaller spare (probably a D610 or similar). Her main lens was obviously a 24-70 type zoom (a Sigma from the look of it) and she had what looked like the monster Nikon WA zoom for group shots.

Unless my maths is wrong the total of her kit including strobe is probably equal to, or even less than the SL+24-90. What Wedding Pro except those doing the top end weddings is going to be able to afford two SLs (for safety) and two lenses?

Then there is the disaster recovery issue. If her camera had failed on the day then she had a cheaper similar body for backup but with an equally good sensor. If her camera had failed before the wedding she could hire a body for the day/weekend which will be compatible with her bog-standard lens collection.

So, I can only assume the SL is aimed at wannabe professionals and not real professionals.

Actually, thinking about it I'd modify that and say it probably does have a place for videographers with deep pockets. But it is competing with the Panasonic GH-4 'whatever' which professionals I have talked to use as the 4K standard, some use the Sony A7S which has the iso sensitivity advantage and just got a whole lot better in the M2 version, so again why buy a £10K system - what on earth would be the ROI?

There is nothing I can see in this system which would compete with or replace the value proposition of my Sony kit at the best mirrorless ILC on the market. There is the Leica build and ergonomics but the premium is ridiculously high.

The strangest contradiction in product management terms is that the Leica Q which is by comparison a third of the price but has the same sensor would probably make a good second camera for a wedding pro for reportage and grab shots. I have an order in for one (no deposit, so no pressure) but I'm now seriously thinking of getting the Sony RX1R mk2 instead.

Sony is basically thrashing Leica and I seem to meet some of my Leica forum chums here at GetDPI who can no longer justify the benefits of a Leica system over the value proposition of Sony - especially as each iteration of their body/sensor works better and better with legacy Leica glass.

Anyway, if a pro out there can explain the value proposition I am genuinely interested and not just trolling.

Just my two cents!

LouisB