Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 82

Thread: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

  1. #1
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I'd been considering the Leica Q and, of course, the Sony RX1r was just announced.

    So I went on to Flickr (my go-to site for comparing lenses and cameras) to compare images and sensors. I looked at images produced by the Leica Q, the Sony RX1r (to mostly see how the 35mm f2 Zeiss fared on a AA-less camera), and the A7r II (to see how the 42 mp sensor stacked up). I also had files from when I went to the DC Leica store.

    Is it my imagination or are images from the Leica Q simply better?

    The images seem sharper and bokeh seems more velvety.

    Peter
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I hope at some point to shoot with the Leica Q, I'll have to rent one or something.

    I need to shoot with cameras and see the images in post for me to know if they fit my style of doing things, I can't always judge from the images of others, I need to see whats going on in my own monitor, if that makes sense.

    Someway, somehow I want to shoot with the Q, I think it is lovely, I got to see one at B&C Photo in Vegas a month back.

    I honestly don't think the Q will have better IQ then the Rx1R mII, but it might, and I would love to find out. I need to rent one.

    Chances are, you'll love either camera.

    the display at B&C:

    the HepKitty
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I'd been considering the Leica Q and, of course, the Sony RX1r was just announced.

    Peter
    Look forward to your images from the Q, Peter.
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    311
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    A 28mm lens will never be a 35mm lens, and a 35mm lens will never be a 28mm lens. Both lenses are of fairly equal quality, meaning top notch. The Q will work like you think a Leica should and the RX1RII will work as Sony's do. These are big differences in themselves, but don't lie to yourself by saying that the 28/1,7 is sooo much better than the 35/2. The Sony will be more useful where people are concerned, and the Leica will be more useful when you want a true wide angle. Even though I like the look of the Leica, and the way it controls, I am going with the Sony. A 35/2 cannot be denied. It's a perfect all rounder for me.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tysons Corner, Virginia
    Posts
    490
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    18

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I didn't mean to imply that the f1.7 28mm lens on the Leica was better than the f2 35mm ZEISS lens on the Sony, they are two different lenses with two different perspectives. It's just that after staring at a huge number of images posted of the Q and then a huge number of images posted of the RX1R (sans AA) to give me a sense of the 'rendering' qualities of the Zeiss f2 and then staring at huge number of images taken by the A7r II (with the best optics available), it seemed that the Q simply 'drew' better images.

    Both are great cameras. And the Sony is a grand less and offers a lot of features that the Q does not have. Likewise the Q offers features the Sony does not have.

    Decisions. Decisions. But, for me, at the moment I'm leaning a little more toward the Q.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I own both the original RX1 and Q. I'm definitely upgrading the RX1 to a RX1Rii, and I may end up selling the Q.

    The lens rendition is subjective, but it's worth noting that the Sony sensor blows the Leica sensor to the curb. The JPEGs of the Q are horrible (see thecamerastore review in youtube) and the dynamic range is lacking. Also banding becomes quite evident when shooting in high ISO's or pushing the files in post.

    As for the Q vs RX1Rii comparison, I think it ultimately comes down to what you value. If size/weight, tilting screen, and better files are important, the Sony wins. If ergonomics, AF/usage speed, and the Leica name are invaluable, get the Q.

    But more importantly, do you prefer 28mm or 35mm?
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I think both are good cameras but I have two issues with the Leica Q- the first personal and the second quite objective

    Personal one- its bit big for my taste. I prefer smaller and Sony does that. But again, that's just personal. I think the Q is well designed and Leica got the "fly by wire" right making it feel almost mechanical.

    Objective - the Q sensor bands at over ISO 6400 (or pushed ISO 6400). If I am going to pay $4k+ USD for the privilege, I want a no excuses sensor. The Sony carries that sensor.

    Other than that, I think both are pretty great.

    - Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 21st October 2015 at 00:48. Reason: Spelling.
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Also one thing to consider is the megapixels..

    First of all, does your computer have enough horsepower to handle 42mp files? If not, it's going to be a costly upgrade meaning the Sony could end up costing more.

    Second, that Zeiss lens hasn't changed sonce original RX1. Can it really handle the increased pressure from sensor/megapixels? I know with Leica X1 & X2 many people were saying the increse was too much for the lens. Here the difference is much more.

    Third, the sheer ammount of megapixels. The camera doesn't have any kind of stabilization system. I for one would not want to be handholding that beast. With my shaky hands, I'd end up screwing up 90% of photos with shutterspeeds less than 1/500..

    So the Q wins FOR ME by just having a much more reasonable amount of megapixels. I can actually use the camera.. and if need be, it has OIS.

    //Juha

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by jlindstrom View Post
    Also one thing to consider is the megapixels..

    First of all, does your computer have enough horsepower to handle 42mp files? If not, it's going to be a costly upgrade meaning the Sony could end up costing more.

    Second, that Zeiss lens hasn't changed sonce original RX1. Can it really handle the increased pressure from sensor/megapixels? I know with Leica X1 & X2 many people were saying the increse was too much for the lens. Here the difference is much more.

    Third, the sheer ammount of megapixels. The camera doesn't have any kind of stabilization system. I for one would not want to be handholding that beast. With my shaky hands, I'd end up screwing up 90% of photos with shutterspeeds less than 1/500..

    So the Q wins FOR ME by just having a much more reasonable amount of megapixels. I can actually use the camera.. and if need be, it has OIS.

    //Juha
    Your 1st point is reasonable for people with 5+ year-old computers. But they should be upgrading anyway.

    Your 2nd point is also valid and we'll have to wait for samples but I am quite confident that the legendary Sonnar lens will perform even better.

    Your 3rd point is ridiculous. 1/500? You must be trolling because I could shoot the RX1 handheld at 1/20. Besides, camera shake will affect a 42mp image just as much as a 24mp image at pixel level. In other words, if you resize the 42mp image to 24mp, and compare images with equal amount of camera shake, they will look identical. A blurry image is a blurry image, no matter how you slice it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    Your 1st point is reasonable for people with 5+ year-old computers. But they should be upgrading anyway.

    Your 2nd point is also valid and we'll have to wait for samples but I am quite confident that the legendary Sonnar lens will perform even better.

    Your 3rd point is ridiculous. 1/500? You must be trolling because I could shoot the RX1 handheld at 1/20. Besides, camera shake will affect a 42mp image just as much as a 24mp image at pixel level. In other words, if you resize the 42mp image to 24mp, and compare images with equal amount of camera shake, they will look identical. A blurry image is a blurry image, no matter how you slice it.


    On point number 3 I wouldn't say he is trolling, he admitted he has shaky hands so for him, He needs to use a faster shutter speed. For his needs the Q does probably make more sense, it is great that we all have options. I do agree with you that the original RX1 was rather easy to hand hold using some slow shutter speeds.

    My question is how good does the stabilization really work on the Q, as this might not be so great. I really want to test one of these at some point.
    the HepKitty

  11. #11
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    1,040
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Is it my imagination or are images from the Leica Q simply better?
    I actually think the opposite. I don't own either but have enjoyed examining them. I think the RX1 has been the most natural rendering digital camera ever. Film like but perhaps even better to my eyes. I don't know why I don't have one.

    Pricing for the RX1r II is probably too steep here in Australia, we still pay "Australia Tax" and we don't get things at the same price as the USA consumer. Maybe I'll try out a new old RX1r this time round.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    590
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I have both the Q and the A7rII (same sensor as the new Sony) and I find the Q files to me much sharper straight of the camera and the Sony's files need more work. The Leica Q combination of the 28mm f1.7 lens and sensor gives gorgeous detail, colour and bokeh and of course you have the leica analogue like controls and the best EVF I have yet used in a mirrorless camera. The sony of course is smaller with more mp's and a 35mm lens and tilting screen (about the only thing I would like the Q to have). I also find the the manual focussing on the Q is excellent with a proper DOF scale and I prefer the way Leica have implemented the use of focus peaking. So unless you need 42mp or more importantly really prefer 35mm then I would go for the Q.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    590
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    It's the files. One of those little details Sony can't be bothered to do properly.

    The RAWS are a joke. But soon they have a new one, but I doubt they help original A7 owners.

    That said the RX1r is highly regarded by many Leica shooters for it's image quality and especially bokeh. Everyone raves about the bokeh, which is so smooth.....I fall asleep

    MF has no feel and does not stay at a constant speed. AF of the 1 is terrible. Sony menus.

    But it's very small and can make superb images. Quiet. Good in the dim. If one prefer's 35 to 28 its a no brainer.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    On point number 3 I wouldn't say he is trolling, he admitted he has shaky hands so for him, He needs to use a faster shutter speed. For his needs the Q does probably make more sense, it is great that we all have options. I do agree with you that the original RX1 was rather easy to hand hold using some slow shutter speeds.

    My question is how good does the stabilization really work on the Q, as this might not be so great. I really want to test one of these at some point.
    I missed the shaky hands bit, apologies to Juha.

    The OIS works quite good on the Q. I could shoot at 1/5 with it turned on, although I really don't find situations where I need such slow shutter speeds. Leica recommends to turn it off for better IQ, so I really never use it.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    Besides, camera shake will affect a 42mp image just as much as a 24mp image at pixel level. In other words, if you resize the 42mp image to 24mp, and compare images with equal amount of camera shake, they will look identical. A blurry image is a blurry image, no matter how you slice it.
    Not really. Camera shake is innately a greater concern as pixel count increases. The need for exactness in focus (in lay terms) is simply greater when increased pixels. Thus, while a person may not have needed OIS on the RX1(r), he/she may have a greater need for it on the Rx1r II given its greater pixel count (i.e., 42.4 mp). This difference may not be problematic for some photographers, but it can be for others.

    I'm not saying that makes the Rx1r II a bad camera or better or worse than the Leica Q.

    While I had the Rx1r, I wasn't super comfortable with the Sony approach to menus and some oddities with firmware, which Sony should have corrected (e.g., inability to increase minimum exposure from 1/80 when using aperture mode, inability to save focal setting when powering up after sleep, which are both problems for street/social doc photography). Sony has corrected the first problem with the Rx1r II, but such small problems should IMO have been corrected a couple years ago with the Rx1r. I don't need 42.4 mp, don't like Sony's menus and approach to firmware fixes, and really find the Rx1r too small. When I had the Rx1r, I actually used a half-case simply to give it more bulk.

    In total--and I hate to say it--I fear neither the Q or Rx1r II can fill my needs. If the Q had an FOV of 35mm, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But I'm sure one of these cameras can make lots of others darn happy--and that's a good thing
    Last edited by ramosa; 28th October 2015 at 16:17.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by ramosa View Post
    Not really. Camera shake is innately a greater concern as pixel count increases. The need for exactness in focus (in lay terms) is simply greater when increased pixels. Thus, while a person may not have needed OIS on the RX1(r), he/she may have a greater need for it on the Rx1r II given its greater pixel count (i.e., 42.4 mp). This difference may not be problematic for some photographers, but it can be for others.
    Why "not really?" If you are resizing the images to 24MP in post, the results will be the same as shooting with the original RX1/R.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    Why "not really?" If you are resizing the images to 24MP in post, the results will be the same as shooting with the original RX1/R.
    Ming Thein well explains the "not really" here: Clearing up the myth of higher resolution, shot discipline and image quality once and for all ? Ming Thein | Photographer

    But, again, as I tried to stress previously, it may be a problem for some, but not for others. Most camera characteristics are pretty subjective and personal, as, for example, some can certainly handhold better at slower exposures than others.
    Last edited by ramosa; 31st October 2015 at 20:48.
    Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked for this post

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    All,

    Well, I finally got on a waiting list for the Leica Q. (I’m sure there’s a long wait ahead, which will give me time to sell off a few camera items.)

    Over the years, I have shot both Leica Ms and the Sony RX1r.

    In comparing the Leica Q to the Sony RX1r II, the Leica should be as good or better FOR ME in pretty much every way. Simpler function (with less need to enter menus and use preset function buttons), better haptics, better EVF, OIS when needed, and better autofocus and manual focus. Both cameras have great sensors, but I do NOT need—nor even want—more than 24MP. While some may prefer the smaller size of the RX1r II, I do not. For me, the Sony RX1r was too small, even when sheathed in a Gariz leather halfcase. Also, I really don’t like Sony’s tradition of being super sluggish when it comes to firmware fixes. (Sony may be turning a new leaf in this regard, per its provision of the new firmware with uncompressed raw for the Sony A7R II, but I wouldn’t bet on it.)

    If there were a true 35mm Leica Q, I’d get it instead, but I do shoot a good amount at 28mm (with a Ricoh GR) and can, at worst, crop down to 35mm when needed (though I wouldn’t feel comfortable cropping further to 50mm).

    Anyway, both cameras are excellent. It really comes down to personal preference.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by ramosa View Post
    Ming Thein well explains the "not really" here: Clearing up the myth of higher resolution, shot discipline and image quality once and for all ? Ming Thein | Photographer

    But, again, as I tried to stress previously, it may be a problem for some, but not for others. Most camera characteristics are pretty subjective and personal, as, for example, some can certainly handhold better at slower exposures than others.
    That was a good read, but I still feel that camera shake will affect both a 24mp and 42mp image equally. Ming goes on to talk about the "potential" issue with the difference in pixel pitch when resizing, but I've never noticed it in practice.

    And while we're on the subject of the Q, don't forget that IBIS/OIS will degrade images even worse than the theoritical issues that Ming talks about. I never use OIS on my Q because it is very noticable. Also, banding is a real problem at any ISO for the Q, versus the exceptional Sony sensor. So I feel the Q offers no real-world advantages over the RX1 when it comes to capturing clean images.

    Lastly, as a 35mm shooter myself, I'd like to warn you that the Q's actual focal length is much closer to 24mm than 28mm. I end up cropping the images ALOT. I love the handling of the Q but there are too many compromises for me to keep it any longer. So it will go when the RX1R II comes.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    To be sure I have this correctly in my mind

    What is the pixel pitch for the Q and what is it for the Sony RX1R2 or the A7R2? TIA.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    That was a good read, but I still feel that camera shake will affect both a 24mp and 42mp image equally. Ming goes on to talk about the "potential" issue with the difference in pixel pitch when resizing, but I've never noticed it in practice.

    And while we're on the subject of the Q, don't forget that IBIS/OIS will degrade images even worse than the theoritical issues that Ming talks about. I never use OIS on my Q because it is very noticable. Also, banding is a real problem at any ISO for the Q, versus the exceptional Sony sensor. So I feel the Q offers no real-world advantages over the RX1 when it comes to capturing clean images.

    Lastly, as a 35mm shooter myself, I'd like to warn you that the Q's actual focal length is much closer to 24mm than 28mm. I end up cropping the images ALOT. I love the handling of the Q but there are too many compromises for me to keep it any longer. So it will go when the RX1R II comes.
    Zonyuser:

    Good to get your reply. I hear you completely--and haven't been trying to ruffle your feathers. Sometimes, forum discussions lack for nonverbal communication cues that would be present if, instead, we were talking about this over coffee. Heck, I have learned from your comments, can sense your great interest in this all, and fully understand your opinion. Yea, the FOV remains my only concern. It's not a deal-breaker, but still present. You're right. It seems the Q is wider than 24mm. Some say 26mm--and I have read 24mm elsewhere. Similarly, the RX1r was really 31mm-32mm, instead of 35mm. (I wish these companies would be more precise. Ha!)

    Yes, if I get the Q, I wouldn't plan on using OIS unless it was really needed (per the potential degradation). You mention a banding problem on the Q. At what ISOs have you seen it? (I haven't shot with the Q, so your experiences on this camera are definitely appreciated.)

    Are you going to order the RX1r II on Thursday? If so, darn exciting.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    To be sure I have this correctly in my mind

    What is the pixel pitch for the Q and what is it for the Sony RX1R2 or the A7R2? TIA.

    12MP -- 8.45 um
    24MP -- 5.97 um
    36MP -- 4.88 um
    42MP -- 4.53 um

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by ramosa View Post
    Zonyuser:

    Good to get your reply. I hear you completely--and haven't been trying to ruffle your feathers. Sometimes, forum discussions lack for nonverbal communication cues that would be present if, instead, we were talking about this over coffee. Heck, I have learned from your comments, can sense your great interest in this all, and fully understand your opinion. Yea, the FOV remains my only concern. It's not a deal-breaker, but still present. You're right. It seems the Q is wider than 24mm. Some say 26mm--and I have read 24mm elsewhere. Similarly, the RX1r was really 31mm-32mm, instead of 35mm. (I wish these companies would be more precise. Ha!)

    Yes, if I get the Q, I wouldn't plan on using OIS unless it was really needed (per the potential degradation). You mention a banding problem on the Q. At what ISOs have you seen it? (I haven't shot with the Q, so your experiences on this camera are definitely appreciated.)

    Are you going to order the RX1r II on Thursday? If so, darn exciting.
    No problem at all. I feel the same way and appreciate your views as well.

    As for your question, the banding occurs in 2 instances. 1) When you try to push/compensate an underexposed scene using ISO 6400 and above. 2) In post, when you try to pull out details from the shadows. The DP review test (link below) may help you better illustrate the issue. I must say that the banding shows up unexpectedly sometimes, and that makes it hard to put a finger on the problem.

    Leica Q First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

    And yes, I'm ordering on Thursday. Hopefully they ship before Christmas

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    No problem at all. I feel the same way and appreciate your views as well.

    As for your question, the banding occurs in 2 instances. 1) When you try to push/compensate an underexposed scene using ISO 6400 and above. 2) In post, when you try to pull out details from the shadows. The DP review test (link below) may help you better illustrate the issue. I must say that the banding shows up unexpectedly sometimes, and that makes it hard to put a finger on the problem.

    Leica Q First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

    And yes, I'm ordering on Thursday. Hopefully they ship before Christmas
    Thanks for your input here! I had previously seen the linked article, but read it much more closely per your recommendation. Please let us know how you like the RX1r II. I know you can order it on Thursday, but don't know when it'll ship.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zony user View Post
    I missed the shaky hands bit, apologies to Juha.

    The OIS works quite good on the Q. I could shoot at 1/5 with it turned on, although I really don't find situations where I need such slow shutter speeds. Leica recommends to turn it off for better IQ, so I really never use it.
    No apolgies needed. I may have exaggerated a bit with 1/500, but I was definitely at the deep end with original A7r and it's 36mp already. A Leica M240 with it's 24mp was much more manageable.

    Naturally if you uprez a 24mp to 42, the shake will show up. But the point is that, you rarely need 42mp images and in their native sizes the shake will show up immediately on the 42mp. At the same time, keeping the 24mp image at it's native resolution it might not show up or at least wouldn't be as bad.

    This is for the most part about proper shooting technique and using tripods etc support when critical sharpness is needed, but I like the more relaxed setup of a 24mp and not having to worry about support so much. And in all honest, even 24mp is more than I would usually need.

    With these "rules" in mind and Q having OIS, it's simply easier camera to hand hold for "Joe average" like myself.

    //Juha

  26. #26
    Senior Member Show Performance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    As a Sony shooter and long time advocate of the RX1 (I've also had some hands on with the RX1RII), I was anxious to give the Q a try but it was vaporware here in Austin, TX. The fates rewarded my wait and somehow Ashwin's Q made its way into my hands yesterday via a sale to a good friend of mine.

    I'll be shooting the Q this weekend at the FFF music fest alongside my a7RII with the Batis.

    Initial impressions are that the Q is a very well sorted camera that can be shot quickly with great results. I understand why some would lust after its design and honestly, if I was going to buy a digital Leica this would be the one. The 28/1.7 does indeed draw beautifully as is apparent by almost any sample image we've seen but my first reaction on seeing the images in LR was "wow, it looks like it came from an RX1". Both cameras will reward with sharp subjects and excellent bokeh wide open, and both are wonderfully sharp stopped down.

    The differences between the cameras are significant though:

    The Q is considerably larger and heavier
    The Q has OIS
    The Q feels more like a traditional rangefinder
    The Q can seamlessly shoot at higher shutter speeds with electronic shutter - wish the RX1 had this
    The Q has a wonderful digital zoom feature that let's you effortlessly switch between 28/35/50 and have those FOVs preserved in RAW. The digital "frame lines" are a nice touch too.
    The Q's menu system is basic compared to the new RX1RII. I prefer Sony's tab system even if it could be better organized. Having to scroll through the Leica menus is tedious. This is subjective of course.
    The Q's EVF is nice but it renders shadows with a blue tint and highlights tend to be yellowish (especially indoors). I much prefer the more natural rendering of the RX1RII EVF. There is also a bit of smearing in the extreme corners of the Q's EVF - minor but it is there.
    The Q files are not as rich and malleable as the RX1's. If you believe DXO Mark, the original RX1 has the highest DR score of all the current Sony bodies and it just destroys the Q when it comes to highlight and shadow recovery. I'm seeing noise in Q files at 200 ISO in shadows that is nonexistent in the thousands of RX1 files I have edited. I'm a bit anxious about shooting the Q in concert low light scenes.
    The Q's AF is very quick although I got several missed focuses last night. Will be watching this closely. I have only tried the RX1R on the floor of Photo+ so can't comment too much on AF but it felt plenty fast and if it is as accurate as the a7RII system, then I will likely prefer it.

    Everything about the Q screams Leica with the only hint of Panasonic collaboration found in the battery compartment. I find it interesting how each brand has a unique signature from a UI perspective and Leica are masters at baking their DNA into everything from the physical design, materials and software. This completeness of the package is what helps Leica command the prices they do. At the end of the day, I guess I am a bit too plebian for the brand but applaud Leica for building the Q.
    Last edited by Show Performance; 5th November 2015 at 12:51.
    Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Senior Member Show Performance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    After three grueling days shooting the festival, things are more clear.

    I have a strong affection for most things about the Q, except for the sensor and EVF. I just can't live with the dynamic range performance and the odd white balance choices the Maestro system wants to make. Overcast skies were often badly blown out and unrecoverable while shadows lost detail when pushing, plus banding issues (see last photo). Not great at all.

    The Summilux renders beautifully but so does the 35/2 in the RX1 and I prefer that fov. The AF was very good for single point shooting - I captured fast action bmx and skate perfectly. As a street camera, I would seriously enjoy shooting fleeting moments with the Q if the light was right, but I find myself moving beyond the traditional focus methods and embracing the new magic that the a7RII system can perform - eye AF, subject tracking, etc. My assumption is that the RX1RII will inherit all of those features and performance. I also found myself wanting the tilt screen for many moments - raising the camera to eye level brings immediate attention to the shooter and I missed several candid opportunities.

    My favorite part of shooting the Q was the digital zoom feature with the accompanying frame lines. The implementation of that feature is just perfect. I really hope Sony does something similar.

    Oh, and lots of cute girls said "nice camera" so there's that. No doubt, the look and feel of the Q is outstanding.

    At the end of the weekend, I can say it was a fun experience but I'm firmly committed to the RX1's big brother with its smaller size, better EVF (more natural rendering), 35/2 lens, advanced AF system and much deeper files.

    And the girls like that cam too.

    full disclosure, I am a Sony Image Artisan but have been posting here for many years on a variety of cameras and platforms and everything I share is personal (unpaid or solicited) opinion. I love playing with all the tools and the Q is a fun one. If it had a Sony sensor in it, I would have a real problem.










    Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked for this post
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  28. #28
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Chad, if you had not pointed it out, I would have thought it was some sort of corrugated roofing on the last picture. It is actually quite nice!
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  29. #29
    Senior Member Show Performance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Chad, if you had not pointed it out, I would have thought it was some sort of corrugated roofing on the last picture. It is actually quite nice!
    Vivek,

    Unfortunately that is just black tarp. I agree, the effect is not so bad here but prefer not to worry about it showing up more conspicuously in other images. I haven't done any research on the problem but it struck me that the banding was likely from the electronic shutter - similar to issues with the a7RII in silent mode. The problem with the implementation of electronic shutter in the Q is that it is a default and the user doesn't have a way to turn it off (someone please correct me if I am wrong). So if that is indeed the cause of the banding, there is no remedy.

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,182
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    Vivek,

    Unfortunately that is just black tarp. I agree, the effect is not so bad here but prefer not to worry about it showing up more conspicuously in other images. I haven't done any research on the problem but it struck me that the banding was likely from the electronic shutter - similar to issues with the a7RII in silent mode. The problem with the implementation of electronic shutter in the Q is that it is a default and the user doesn't have a way to turn it off (someone please correct me if I am wrong). So if that is indeed the cause of the banding, there is no remedy.
    If I remember correctly the M240 had a lot of the same banding issues in mixed light while shooting in medium to high ISO (ISO1600+.) It was one of the other reasons I held on to my M9 for quite a bit longer.

    Hopefully Leica can issue a firmware update if that's the case of not being able to turn the electronic shutter off.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    The Leica of course. It just works.

    Sony has so many silly functions packed in among the real useful ones it is so uninspiring to try to work through.

  32. #32
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,862
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    No doubt the Q!

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,182
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    The Leica of course. It just works.

    Sony has so many silly functions packed in among the real useful ones it is so uninspiring to try to work through.
    I've found that living with a Sony is much easier than trying it in store. With the quick menu and the custom buttons I rarely go inside the main menu except to format memory cards.

    That at being said either camera is capable of producing great images. The bigger question to answer is do you want 28mm or 35mm IMO.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  34. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I'm looking forward to trying out the new Sony to see how the performance has improved. I owned the previous version and the images it produced were more pleasing to my eye than from my 35 Lux Asph and M9/240 although it did show noticably more distortion causing me the pain of ticking a profile box in Lightroom for future imports! It was just the speed of operation that let me down. 28MM isn't so much my thing.

  35. #35
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I'm torn on the decision. I currently have both. I shoot concerts, musicians, CD covers.

    My previous kit was Nikon D810, 35 SigArt, 50 SigArt, and Nikon 85. Obviously I'm close and not using the 70-200.

    I also used an M240 with either the 50 APO or 50 Nocti and the original RX1r. I really preferred the RX1r images over the 35 Lux FLE on the M240.

    Since the introduction of the Q and the SL. I sold everything else. The SL and 24-90 are absolutely amazing. I have been using the Q as my second wide angle body and just love the shooting experience.

    The Q is fast and just a dream to use ergonomically. This is where the dilemma comes in choosing between the Q and the RX1r ii.

    I prefer the 35 mm focal length over the 28mm. It's just how I see the world when framing in my head. The Q beats the RX1r ii in many areas. Better view finder, better micro contrast, preferred colors, more natural handling for everything except exposure comp. (no direct access without hitting the Fn button first), better battery life. When images are sized the same between the two cameras, I always prefer the Leica. The things in favor of the RX1r ii are the incredible detail you get from the 42 MP sensor and the ability to crop if needed.

    From a work standpoint the Q is much faster and more natural to use.

    From a personal camera to take with me traveling, it's almost worth giving up my preference for shooting the Q to have the smaller size and increased flexibility of the RX1r ii. The ability to crop and have the tilt screen are real advantages.

    I DREAM of a Q with a 35 MM lens, the 42 MP sensor, and a tilt screen. Then I would be in heaven.

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    I DREAM of a Q with a 35 MM lens, the 42 MP sensor, and a tilt screen. Then I would be in heaven.
    What would you be shooting then?
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,085
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    ...Oh, and lots of cute girls said "nice camera" so there's that. No doubt, the look and feel of the Q is outstanding...
    Chad, cute girls are my work, are my life, either with vogue or top notch agency or private. I never EVER heard a girl (cute or not) saying "Ho, this is a nice camera". This is a man thing, girls do not care about gear. I agree with what you say but this part is just utter overplayed IMHO.

    Keep cool and fly safe
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belgļe
    Posts
    1,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Chad, cute girls are my work, are my life, either with vogue or top notch agency or private. I never EVER heard a girl (cute or not) saying "Ho, this is a nice camera". This is a man thing, girls do not care about gear. I agree with what you say but this part is just utter overplayed IMHO.

    Keep cool and fly safe
    Ummmm, respectively disagree.

    You're obviously not hanging out with the right girls.
    my flickr
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  39. #39
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,085
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Ummmm, respectively disagree.

    You're obviously not hanging out with the right girls.
    The day girls start to worry about gear, I'll go with Men. I'm serious. Hopefully, this day is far away !

    Baiting ppl with the argument "girls like this camera" is so over the top than it trigger my inner misanthropy.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  40. #40
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I had a tough time deciding between both the RX1Rm2 and the Leica Q both of which were on pre- or back-order.

    I had used a RX1 which is how I got into owning my main kit which is a A7R, A7S and a variety of lenses. So, I knew what I would be getting with the RX1Rm2.

    I'd tried the Q several times, first time I was unimpressed but the second time I related. I remembered how simple my life was when I shot with M bodies both film and digital.

    I've also warmed to shooting with a fixed 28mm lens by using (and promoting to anyone who asks my opinion) the fantastic Ricoh GR (still the best value for money camera for serious digital photography out there, imho).

    So, in the end it was an emotional decision. I realised I wanted to shoot with a Leica, I wanted the unfussy controls and the wider lens (which crops much better to 1x1, imho).

    Both cameras are obviously fantastic. You cannot really fault them and basing arguments on specs will not help. Which camera will help you take compelling photographs?

    That's the question and deep down only you know the answer.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  41. #41
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    You cannot really fault them and basing arguments on specs will not help.

    Louis, When I find the RX1R II edges out the A7s in terms of DR and is close to it in low light performance (with no banding worries!), yes the specs do stand out.

  42. #42
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Louis, When I find the RX1R II edges out the A7s in terms of DR and is close to it in low light performance (with no banding worries!), yes the specs do stand out.
    That is interesting to know. I will probably upgrade to the A7RII next year and I wonder to what extent I will still want my A7S when that happens. I find myself reaching for the A7S more often than the A7R. I do agree about the banding issues on the A7S, very disappointing and has let me down at least once quite seriously, although only in artificial light.

    I think my point is that individuals can spend too much time worrying about specs and agreed that digital cameras all have their foibles, some are better at some things than others, but it is better to make a choice and enjoy it rather than spend too much time worrying about if you have the best out there.

    LouisB

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Point taken, Louis. I referred to the banding from Leica cams (poor low light capabilities) and not the one from A7s when the silent shutter mode is used.

  44. #44
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Point taken, Louis. I referred to the banding from Leica cams (poor low light capabilities) and not the one from A7s when the silent shutter mode is used.
    I've yet to see any banding in low light with the Q and I have shot up to 12500 with it. Did I get lucky or something? I got really bad banding at my nieces wedding using the silent shutter on the A7S and ruined a number of photographs not realising what was happening.

    LouisB

  45. #45
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    I am toying with the idea of adding a suitable WA converter to my RX1R II. It appears that the Sony SEL075UWA (0.75X) with a little mod is the best bet (source: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1369103). Since the converter itself swallows 1 stop, there is no chance of any practical use wider than f/8 (so, no match for the Q).

    Has anyone done exploration in this regard (RX or Q) with add on optical converters?

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    That is interesting to know. I will probably upgrade to the A7RII next year and I wonder to what extent I will still want my A7S when that happens. I find myself reaching for the A7S more often than the A7R. I do agree about the banding issues on the A7S, very disappointing and has let me down at least once quite seriously, although only in artificial light.

    I think my point is that individuals can spend too much time worrying about specs and agreed that digital cameras all have their foibles, some are better at some things than others, but it is better to make a choice and enjoy it rather than spend too much time worrying about if you have the best out there.

    LouisB
    Be patient as it could be called the A7RIII or IV model by next year.

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Since (from your posts on the Sony thread) you seem to have both the Q and the RX1R II, Lou, any experience with add on optical converters on either one?

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Since (from your posts on the Sony thread) you seem to have both the Q and the RX1R II, Lou, any experience with add on optical converters on either one?
    No, sorry, I like what each company developed. Got the Sony to see how a 42MP camera handles as far as my technique is concerned before thinking further of getting an ILC Sony A7xxxx. My main use will be for street use, like you.

    I must admit our weather has been so lousy that I have barely used the RX, but that should change soon. What I know is that my technique had better get better with the RX since I can often get sloppy with my technique when using a 24MP camera and seem to get away with that lousy technique.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I've yet to see any banding in low light with the Q and I have shot up to 12500 with it. Did I get lucky or something? I got really bad banding at my nieces wedding using the silent shutter on the A7S and ruined a number of photographs not realising what was happening.

    LouisB
    First of all, I think this issue was over hyped with the Q. It seems that with the original firmware, there was banding in shadows if you pushed them something like 3 stops. Have to say that if you need to push your shadows that much for correct exposure, you should be blaming yourself instead of the camera. And secondly this "issue" has apparently been significantly improved in the new firmware release to the extent that people previously complaining about it are now happy with it.

    So, I'm not surprised you've never noticed it! You're likely to know your exposure better than that

    //Juha

  50. #50
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Leica Q vs Rx1r II

    The price difference has become nearly insignificant here!

    ~ 500 Euros higher for the heavier Q.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •