The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Leica dealer profit margin?

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hah! I saw that . . . but perhaps it only gives an indication on the profit margin on key chains?
Good one, Jono.

Whatever the dealer profit margin after packages, sales volume paybacks, etc, I'm still sure it's pretty slim. Most dealers are struggling—I can't imagine that would be the case if they were making fat markups.

G
 

D&A

Well-known member
This is a general rule of thumb and of course it varies greatly. On things like camera bodies and bikes, profit margin is slim. On items like lenses, flashes and aftermarket higher end bike wheels, helmets, profit margin is aometimes better. On smaller accessories like memory cards, camera straps, camera bags or say bike lights, bike gloves and clothes as such, profit margin is considerable. The camera body or bike gets one into the hobby or system and its additional sales to that consumet that support their hobby or system where the money is made.

Dave (D&A)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
On smaller accessories like memory cards, camera straps, camera bags or say bike lights, bike gloves and clothes as such, profit margin is considerable.
Astonishing deal on the Leica flash shoe cover. :LOL:
 

f8orbust

Active member
I wonder what is the purpose to officially discuss Profit margings of Leica Dealers on a Forum?
I'm sure used car dealers don't like valuations appearing in the dealer's Black Book® - but it empowers consumers so, in my opinion (obviously I'm not a used car dealer) it's a good thing.

No difference when it comes to camera gear - I want the best deal I can get, so if I know how much headroom the dealer has to move on price, so much the better.
 

aDam007

New member
I asked the question because I think my dealer is lying. I am thinking of getting a 007 plus a lens and would've thought that I get a discount to list, yes, even though it is Leica. My dealer then told me something about very, very thin margins and that he couldn't do it.

Problem is that I heard from M dealers in Germany that sell new lenses at 20% discount and even from the Swiss Leica general managers himself an example of margins around 30%.

Actually, this would be a very, very bad business to be in, if you sold Leica stuff and your marines would only be 10% or less. I just think it is a lie and wanted to know if anyone has more info on this.

Best,

P
If I'm dealing with my USA dealer I get 5% on ANYTHING Leica. I still use my HK dealer, but thought it was worth mentioning. Seeing how the profit margins are only 8% or so, my dealer must LOVE me to give me more then 50% of his earnings :D

And I'm not even paying his staff and etc.
 

aDam007

New member
Good one, Jono.

Whatever the dealer profit margin after packages, sales volume paybacks, etc, I'm still sure it's pretty slim. Most dealers are struggling—I can't imagine that would be the case if they were making fat markups.

G

I think the dealer is struggling because demand is lower then usual for cameras in general, never mind Leica (where sales are really slow).
Also depending on the region, Sony gives around 50% as a way to alleviate the need for Sony stores.
 

zone7

New member
I use Leica M but have bought everything used. My local dealer (a personal friend) handles Nikon and Canon. His profit margins are extremely low. In addition, manufacturers are not always "cooperative" with dealers. Nikon is very poor, Canon is better. I don't know about Leica. But I feel petty sure about this -- if we want to continue to have local camera shops, we'd best "bite the bullet" and be willing to pay a little more than Internet discounts, or we'll lose all local dealers (my small city once had half-dozen, now we have one).
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I think the dealer is struggling because demand is lower then usual for cameras in general, never mind Leica (where sales are really slow). ...
While I agree that sales are slow, everywhere, every dealer I've talked to says their margins have grown pretty darn slim too ... They have to sell more to make the needed income and need to do that in a slow market. It's a very tough game.

G
 

monza

Active member
It's usually 16% gross margin, with a few exceptions, accessories can be a lot more. There are also various programs for dealers who keep medium format gear on display. There are no kickbacks/co-op, but if invoices are paid early there are prepayment discounts.

I'll share a few from an obsolete two-year old price list.

Leica S: $21,950 $18.218.50 17%
Summarit-S 1:2.5/70 ASPH (E82) $4,995.00 $4,145.85 17%

S-Camera Battery 270.00 180.00 33.33%
S-Lens Cap E82 90.00 45.00 50.00%
Leica X Vario (Typ 107) 2,850.00 2,422.50 15.00%
Leica X Vario Hand grip 160.00 90.00 43.75%
X2, Black 1,995.00 1,695.75 15.00%

Leica M, Monochrom 7,950.00 6,678.00 16.00%
Leica M, Black Paint (Typ 240) 6,950.00 5,838.50 15.99%
50mm / f0.95 ASPH. (E60) 10,995.00 9,235.80 16.00%
50mm / f2.0 ASPH (E39) 7,350.00 6,174.00 16.00%
M9/M8/M-E Handgrip Black Paint 300.00 210.00 30.00%
M-Multi-functional handgrip (for M Typ 240) 895.00 751.80 16.00%
Leica Handgrip M (for M Typ 240) 300.00 210.00 30.00%
 

monza

Active member
Margins for Canikon are a lot less, but they have co-op advertising programs and other kickbacks.

Nikon DSLRs for example are generally invoiced at 10% margin
 

D&A

Well-known member
Its basically what I posted previously. Bodies have a smaller profit margin as compared to accessories. Still its a very competitive business and a lot of hard work goes into making a profit when all factors are taken into consideration.

On a seperate note? Monza it good to see you back. Someone posted they were trying to get in touch with you months ago amd I know many of us have missed your participation. Hope all is well.

Dave (D&A)
 

pfigen

Member
Here in the U.S., as of a few of years ago when the Supreme Court overturned approximately 80 years of precedent and allowed price fixing, Leica was one of the first to proudly jump on that bandwagon. The Leica rep I met at Samy's here in L.A. told me (and he was so proud that they price fixed) that it was to protect their "brand". Yeah. The sad fact is, is that Leica will punish dealers in the U.S. they find selling for even a dollar under MSRP. All of a sudden you just won't be able to get anything, as a dealer. I don't remember exactly what the margins are, but the only real way for a dealer here to discount is to throw in other items and not show them on the invoice, which probably screws with inventory control. My feelings are that once the dealer has bought the item, they should be able to sell it for whatever price they want. In another lifetime, I worked in a camera store. The single highest markup item that I recall were thread in glass filters. In the late '70's 52mm filters sold for $9.00 list and the dealer paid about $2.75 per. Larger filters scaled with price but maintained the margins. filters were always sold at list price. The store would often make more on just the filters - and you were heavily encouraged to sell at least one per lens - than on the whole camera sale. It's also the reason you can walk into you local shop and get a heavy discount on filters, if you know how to ask for one, and often pay substantially less than B&H.
 

monza

Active member
Price fixing? What court case?

You must be speaking of MAP, minimum advertised price.

Dealers can and do sell at any price they want. However there are (legal) rules for MAP.

Every camera manufacturer uses MAP.

Some dealers get around MAP by claiming an item is used or demo, when it isn't. Leica USA is aware of this tactic but to date has not done anything to end the practice. It's not apparent they could do so.
 
Last edited:
As others have said, the mark up is in line with other makes, the two year old price list above is similar to what I have too. What I'm more interested in is Leica's profit margin. Bear with me now, but I have an example. The Digital Bolex, kickstarted a few years ago and still selling pretty decently for a niche pro-product was started as a low-cost, raw shooting true digital cine super 16 camera. They said they were able to achieve this low cost because they used existing, off the shelf components and that their input was largely to do with software, firmware and essential design. They used a kodak CCD and a low-tech screen. They didn't have to do R&D on hardly any of the hardware parts at all. Sound familiar? It should. The M9 was built around the same premise, but what allowed the Digital Bolex to be sold very cheaply, I think they're around $3000 dollars now, somehow made the M9 the most expensive camera in it's class. Though the M9 made and makes a lot of people very happy and was capable of great images, it was basically a sham as far as cost goes. They could have sold them at 5D prices and still made a profit but no no, it's Leica. Superior blah blah blah until it has any of the myriad of problems associated with that camera. Again, M9, capable of fine images and made a lot of people happy. But hugely over-priced considering how it was developed and all the issues that came with it. I know, I know, Leica doesn't sell cameras, they sell mystique. I prefer to think of mystique as synonymous with bullsh*t but one man's trash etc etc... Meanwhile the 'pro' SL is useless for 'pro' video http://leicarumors.com/2015/11/15/leica-sl-typ-601-camera-log-gamma-problems-reported.aspx/
 

algrove

Well-known member
Also keep in mind to get dealer discounts dealers must buy a certain amount of merchandise each month, quarter or year to obtain whatever discount they get. Then take into account operating costs, etc, etc, etc and the net is not high. Why do you think less and less bricks and mortar cameras are still around?
 

monza

Active member
Don't forget the M9 was back ordered for a very long time after release. If they had sold them for 5D prices they would not have sold any more units, they would have just collected more back orders...
 
Don't forget the M9 was back ordered for a very long time after release. If they had sold them for 5D prices they would not have sold any more units, they would have just collected more back orders...
It would have been contingent on them building a proper supply chain. Leica manufactures demand by keeping products off the market as much as on. It's a dog and pony show to generate exclusivity. Would ANYONE really complain if they built up an Asian factory to build the camera bodies and produced their premium lenses in Germany? If so their priorities would be in need of serious re-alignment. Leica could put their cameras in the hands of many more shooters out there who I daresay have more interesting stories to tell than your average well-to-do hobbiest. Most people forget that a $3.5-5k FF camera is still VERY, VERY expensive, but do-able for most with a dream. But Leica wants to be just above do-able to keep the luxury market happy. I would bet you that they have a building full of Q's waiting to go out, but they just trickle them out slow as they can to make it look like they're so enormously popular that they can't possibly make them fast enough. Total. Bunk. But you know, part of the 'mystique.'
 

monza

Active member
As a former dealer, it was very frustrating. No matter how much harder I worked, there was no guarantee I'd make more sales...and because of their inability to properly match orders to individuals, a sale became a random event...

Exclusivity is certainly a factor but when the M9 came out they were not prepared for the demand, they should have actually sold it for MORE. They were going on ebay for $1500 above retail. Selling them at 5D pricing would have just irritated more dealers and buyers.
 

weinschela

Subscriber Member
Price fixing? What court case?

You must be speaking of MAP, minimum advertised price.

Dealers can and do sell at any price they want. However there are (legal) rules for MAP.

Every camera manufacturer uses MAP.

Some dealers get around MAP by claiming an item is used or demo, when it isn't. Leica USA is aware of this tactic but to date has not done anything to end the practice. It's not apparent they could do so.
The Supreme Court some years ago ruled that vertical resale price fixing was no longer per se illegal -- meaning no defense for it. Now it is handled under the "rule of reason" and if there is enough competition from other brands, it could be okay. But the states have their own antitrust laws, and many still apply a per se rule to any kind of vertical price fixing. MAP is technically not price fixing because it theoretically only covers what a dealer can advertise, not what it can sell at. In any event a seller can always exercise its unilateral discretion to decide whether to deal or not to deal. The bigger problem as I understand it for smaller dealers is minimum stocking requirements. Many cannot afford to keep that much money tied up in gear on the shelves. The discussion about gross margins is really beside the point because every dealer has costs it must absorb like rent (if they are brick and mortar) , salaries, etc.
 

tjv

Active member
I know for a fact it's no more than 12% on bodies, usually less, where I live. I worked in the retail business for years and wondered why we bothered selling Leica products when so muct time was wasted on dealing with faulty goods after sale. Canon margins were just as bad, often worse. Second hand and accessories is where the money is, no question.
 
Top