Woohooo M8 firmware update!

[lambert]

I have two bodies, one upgraded and one not - the second one comes up in the next week or so, and I was still dithering about whether to do the shutter or not (I sometimes use 1/8000 in bright light).

Hi Jono,

I often shoot my 35/1.4 ASPH wide open outdoors and hit 1/6000+ regularly. Is the reduced shutter noise worth 1 stop? I think not. If shutter noise is an issue indoors, the new discreet mode may suffice. Just my 2 bobs worth!

Cheers, Vincent

 

[cam]

Terry,

i understand the discreet shutter -- that's why i didn't go for the M8 but was holding out for the M8.2.... the loudest (most objectionable) noise on the M8 is the mechanical recocking by far. even with the discreet mode it is still as loud, but at least you can control when it goes off now.

the new shutter *is* quieter, but i'm not sure it really makes a difference in most situations whereas being able to control the recock does.

Cindy,

if you love the 8000 (i am so jealous!), i honestly don't think the difference is large enough as i noted above. in a really quiet situation, the shutter still will be heard (though the new smoothness is sweet).

then again, i could be talking out my a$$ as i've not gotten to compare the two side by side. i've just played with both, concentrating on the sound as that is my biggest gripe with the Epson.

 

[Terry]

Terry,


the new shutter *is* quieter, but i'm not sure it really makes a difference in most situations whereas being able to control the recock does.

Which is exactly why I want to try both side by side after the firmware update. If the shutter itself isn't so different in sound/feel (I hear that the new one feels better) then I may keep my old one that goes to 1/8000 skip the upgrades all together and and sell the upgraded one.

 

[Chris C]

....... the loudest (most objectionable) noise on the M8 is the mechanical recocking by far.......

Cam - Not on my M8. The heavy clack of the shutter is far worse than the rewind and it's tone carries further too. If the shutter on my M8 was only as noisy as the rewind I'd be relatively OK with that. Set it to a 2 second exposure to separate the two sounds and get someone to fire it at a discreet distance. The shutter was always a terrible choice, but I'm glad the option of separating the two stages is being implemented.

.............. Chris

 

[robertwright]

vibration is another issue. I feel it really helps me on the slower end. the stock shutter + rewind has a huge kick. the new shutter plus the delay now is very welcome.

 

[jonoslack]

Hi Cam
Chris has it with the 2 second shutter release
The old shutter is much noisier than the new one - especially with the original click. I suspect that the firmware will make this more obvious rather than less.

Ho Hum

the new shutter *is* quieter, but i'm not sure it really makes a difference in most situations whereas being able to control the recock does.


if you love the 8000 (i am so jealous!), i honestly don't think the difference is large enough as i noted above. in a really quiet situation, the shutter still will be heard (though the new smoothness is sweet).

then again, i could be talking out my a$$ as i've not gotten to compare the two side by side. i've just played with both, concentrating on the sound as that is my biggest gripe with the Epson.

 

[cam]

Chris, Jono, it's funny what we all notice.... i found the old M8 shutter not bad at all in comparison to the R-D1 (which deaf people can hear). then again, i didn't find the new shutter all that awesomely quiet which was a let-down for me. i had some romantic notion that it all of a sudden would be quite stealthy -- which it's not. i still think the wind is the most objectionable part in terms of the noise (the manual recocking on the R-D1 is so much nicer in this regard).

for people that constantly use the 8000 and have gotten used to the old shutter, well, that's all i'm saying. it's an awful lot of money for something that is still quite audible unless you need it to be as quiet as possible (like me).

as robert mentions, the new shutter feels quite sweet. the smoothness allowed me to hold still for the press longer, but i have an issue with my shutter finger and i wasn't sure if it was just me.

i'm saying this all as a delicate punter who played around with both. i would have the shutter upgrade and, along with the discreet shutter, it may be enough to turn me. i say "may" as i need to walk around my streets here to see if it's quiet enough.... it's really the biggest issue i have with my Epson. there have been quite a few shots i've missed because of the shutter (there really is something to the frequency that makes it pop).

the proof in the pudding for you all will be Terry's testing the two side by side, hopefully in real world situations.... so i'll shut up now.

 

[jonoslack]

HI Cam

the proof in the pudding for you all will be Terry's testing the two side by side, hopefully in real world situations.... so i'll shut up now.

I think there's quite a few of us in this boat (with one old shutter and one new). Woody certainly is, and so am I.

Of course, the 2 second exposure isn't quite all of it, as you only get the shutter opening on the first click, but it does suggest that there is quite a difference between the two. Bottom line for me is that the new shutter seems very quiet (really in M7 realms) if you remove the pertoing of the rewind . . but the old one doesn't.

 

[cam]

d'accord.

i'm just kind of chuckling at the idea of being stealthy with a 2 second exposure anyways.... of course, you're not a wild-haired redhead with a single-mindedness who sticks out in the first place :ROTFL:

 

[robsteve]

vibration is another issue. I feel it really helps me on the slower end. the stock shutter + rewind has a huge kick. the new shutter plus the delay now is very welcome.

I am not getting the comments on the rewind vibration. I have seen it posted here and on the LUF. The shutter is closed by the time the rewind happens, so any vibration is not going to affect the image.

Robert

 

[jonoslack]

I am not getting the comments on the rewind vibration. I have seen it posted here and on the LUF. The shutter is closed by the time the rewind happens, so any vibration is not going to affect the image.

Robert

Quite right Robert - I had been thinking the same thing myself.

 

[cam]

no, but the actual shutter when depressed is smoother. you need a delicate touch to feel the difference

 

[robertwright]

I am not getting the comments on the rewind vibration. I have seen it posted here and on the LUF. The shutter is closed by the time the rewind happens, so any vibration is not going to affect the image.

Robert

..yes. I guess it's more psychological for me. when I am evaluating whether or not I made a good exposure in terms of camera shake I can look through the finder and watch the rangefinder patch and see whether or not it moves relative to the subject. With the rewind coming immediately after and the high energy shutter it was the worst of all combinations, I could feel the bottom plate vibrate relative to the camera, feel the energy, and watch the rangefinder patch bounce...depending on how many beers I have had....

the whole combination now of the lower energy shutter and delayed recock really gets it to where the film M's are, or other cameras like the mamiya 7, although that one is pretty hard to beat with a stick.

the other thing I noticed after the upgrade was the action of the release button seems different, it releases more towards the top of the action than the bottom. So you can just will the shutter over the hump to fire.

ok so I'm romaticizing:ROTFL:

maybe what I am saying is the original shutter was so bad...

thank goodness the firmware upgrade is applicable to all cameras. if it was upgrade only that would have stunk to high heaven.

 

[woodyspedden]

HI Cam


I think there's quite a few of us in this boat (with one old shutter and one new). Woody certainly is, and so am I.

Of course, the 2 second exposure isn't quite all of it, as you only get the shutter opening on the first click, but it does suggest that there is quite a difference between the two. Bottom line for me is that the new shutter seems very quiet (really in M7 realms) if you remove the pertoing of the rewind . . but the old one doesn't.

I am totally with Jono on this one. My original version has not only a noisy shutter but one where you can really feel the vibration. You just know that the mechanical resonances in the shutter system is causing fuzzy images.

The new shutter, to my hands and ears, is right there with my M7. It is so easy to squeeze off a shot, particularly using one of Tom Abrahmmson's devices, that you gain real confidence in getting a really sharp image. needless to say I love the upgraded one by a huge margin. However I am looking forward to the new firmware to feel its effects. Of course it should work on both shutter models but if it gets the job done on my original, and gets even close to the upgraded one I will be a super happy camper

Just my thoughts

Woody

 

[marknorton]

I'm pleased it's coming after the flak I took on the LUG for making a noise about it...

Not sure how useful it will be to those with the older shutter - if you use B, you can get a feel for what it will be like, still too noisy with that initial clack! transmitted into the body shell.

When Stefan Daniel said it would not be done because they had a P&L to protect, I modified the camera to implement the delay in hardware (though with 30 wires coming out of the lens throat, it wasn't pretty) and I abandoned it when I realised the M8 is still a noisy beast, discreet mode or not. You cannot, after all, make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

To my mind, it's a valuable extra to go with the new quieter shutter and should have been provided with the shutter upgrade all along. I'm pleased it's there now.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Bottom line on this whole thing and i still can't figure out why there is such a big to do about this. It changes absolutely NOTHING with the M8 except the separation of sound if you use it and most folks will not use it after the initial cool factor. I tested the M8.2 with it and obviously that new shutter is deadly quiet and you really don't even need it on that since it is so quiet. This will only be nice when you can actually take a shot than displace the sound somewhere else and when you do that it is not even close to your eye and could lose another shot. Nice but it is limited. Bottom line you want quiet than get a M8.2 or go for a upgrade. Makes a whole world of difference but only if you require it. Again nice feature and glad Leica threw it in the mix but it's only a gift if you use it and when on single mode it maybe more a PITA than what people think.

 

[Peter Klein]

Guy: I'm really looking forward to the discrete mode. Most of the time I'll have it off. But at a play or concert, if I can take a shot and then muffle the sound of the recocking under my jacket, it will be genuinely useful to me. Ditto in a quiet place. A short click often goes unnoticed, particularly if well-timed. The recocking noise lasts a lot longer. Out in the street, or among people talking in normal tones, you're right, why bother.

We'll know soon. The good news is that it's free, so even if it isn't so good, no great loss. In that case it will be back to film M and Tri-X for most of my classical musican pictures.

--Peter

 

[stevem8]

Guy is right on here. I agree 100%!

Bottom line on this whole thing and i still can't figure out why there is such a big to do about this. It changes absolutely NOTHING with the M8 except the separation of sound if you use it and most folks will not use it after the initial cool factor. I tested the M8.2 with it and obviously that new shutter is deadly quiet and you really don't even need it on that since it is so quiet. This will only be nice when you can actually take a shot than displace the sound somewhere else and when you do that it is not even close to your eye and could lose another shot. Nice but it is limited. Bottom line you want quiet than get a M8.2 or go for a upgrade. Makes a whole world of difference but only if you require it. Again nice feature and glad Leica threw it in the mix but it's only a gift if you use it and when on single mode it maybe more a PITA than what people think.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy: I'm really looking forward to the discrete mode. Most of the time I'll have it off. But at a play or concert, if I can take a shot and then muffle the sound of the recocking under my jacket, it will be genuinely useful to me. Ditto in a quiet place. A short click often goes unnoticed, particularly if well-timed. The recocking noise lasts a lot longer. Out in the street, or among people talking in normal tones, you're right, why bother.

We'll know soon. The good news is that it's free, so even if it isn't so good, no great loss. In that case it will be back to film M and Tri-X for most of my classical musican pictures.

--Peter

Peter it certainly will have it's use no question and better to have than not to have. If some folks understand it like you do than it will do exactly that, give you the chance to put it somewhere and not be heard. Some folks are expecting a quieter shutter and that is not the case at all and they just don't seem to understand to actually do that they need to buy a upgrade or a M8.2 and when you get to those even the discreet mode is kind off useless because that shutter is really quiet. You almost have to listen to hear it from 2 ft away. So discreet mode on the new shutter may not ever get any play. The pitfall here is you have to take the camera away from your eye and like you said muffle it in your coat, well that is at least a 5 second experience when something you may just miss not having it at your eye or ready position. That is the limitation I want folks to understand.

funny thing is I had a camera that did this and i can't remember which camera it was but I would put the camera behind my back and let it wind out. Wish I could remember which camera it was but yes it is useful and it is free. For the upgrade folks certainly a extra bonus

 

[Terry]

Peter it certainly will have it's use no question and better to have than not to have. If some folks understand it like you do than it will do exactly that, give you the chance to put it somewhere and not be heard. Some folks are expecting a quieter shutter and that is not the case at all and they just don't seem to understand to actually do that they need to buy a upgrade or a M8.2 and when you get to those even the discreet mode is kind off useless because that shutter is really quiet. You almost have to listen to hear it from 2 ft away. So discreet mode on the new shutter may not ever get any play. The pitfall here is you have to take the camera away from your eye and like you said muffle it in your coat, well that is at least a 5 second experience when something you may just miss not having it at your eye or ready position. That is the limitation I want folks to understand.

Guy,
I have the regular shutter and the upgraded shutter. I just put them side by side and was firing off the shutter. The old one is obviously louder but I still say the bulk of the noise/vibration isn't the shutter going off but it is the recocking of the shutter. Also, the Luigi case dampens the noise so the old shutter with a delay on the recock isn't so so bad (estimated the delay by using the 2 second shutter speed suggestion). The new shutter feels nicer but you feel it most when the recock comes later because of the recocking. I know the vibration doesn't matter because the shutter is closed but thats what I'm feeling side by side.