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Thread: Leica Service

  1. #101
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Marc, I haven't yet felt your pain, but...
    I recently purchased an S35 which had the Leica repair to the motor gear. I understand Leica is replacing the plastic gear with a metal one - quite similar to the problem I had with my 60's era Maserati's electric windows. However, I wonder if all repair facilities have the metal gear in stock and if some of the repairs consisted of replacing the gear with the same spec plastic component .
    But mostly the situation sucks and Leica's lack of forthcoming only exacerbates the issue.

    Actually Leica is using the same plastic gear AFAIK. A company in China will do a metal gear replacement if you'd like, but you forfeit any goodwill warranty with Leica Germany.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Adam,

    To me the CCD Leica cameras are no longer tenable .... perhaps something in the spec of the sensor covers
    allowed the corrosion to occur. But it seems not to be a random event but more pervasive in nature.

    Shame of it is that the color of the 006 is really really good ...

    But ... after running around Scotland with a Q and a recent change ... all my S gone ... I purchased a M-D. Thorsten Overgaard suggests that
    the color of the M60 and M-D might be different than that of the 240 ... perhaps due to lack of circuitry for live view? I find it stunning with the 50 APO Summicron ...
    and am very pleased to be free of the AF issues and hopefully concerns with corrosion of the sensor. Seems quite organic ... although the DR is
    not up to the S I can work around it. The purity of color with the APO is stellar.

    Hard to imagine what the course of the S would have been without sensor issues and if the cheap
    AF gear had not been used ... as this and the M CCD corrosion issue have overwhelmed Leica.

    For all their limitations Leica still has some amazing glass ...


    Bob

    Well I've mostly sold all my Leica gear (as I mentioned above). I will admit I prematurely sold my M240-P bodies out of anger mostly (I had quite a few). So I MIGHT get myself another color M since the M246 isn't an ideal camera for me (not sure if I want to keep the mono or not). The only M lens I have and will ever need is the 50APO (I know this now after owning 22 M lenses in one shot, and more then that in total if you count the amount of times I've purchased and sold M lenses).

    So it's good to hear that you think the M-D has something a little extra than the M240-P has. I'm curious to check it out, as I'm either going to get the new color M (whenever it comes out, but if it shares the same sensor as the SL I'll pass). Or I'm going to get the M-D because I like the idea of no screen. Or I'll get another M240-P since I really cannot see myself needing much more out of a camera.


    And YES the 50APO is beyond words

  3. #103
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    Re: Leica Service

    Bob,

    I cannot speak directly for the S006 sensors that display corrosion and their replacement sensor but from what I understand (and its been noted repeatedly by a number of sources), new replacement sensors and specifically the cover glass for the M9 series of cameras is newly designed and the afixing of the cover glass and the cover glass itself is different than the original sensor/cover glass. Of course time will tell but in the M9 replacement sensor case, its supposed to have addressed the corrosion issue.

    I am not refering to M9/MM sensors replaced previous to early 2016, (they were simply the same old sensors), but the ones being used now. There have been no reports to my knowledge that any of the current sensor replacements in the M9 series has corroded.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 21st October 2016 at 10:16.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Leica Service

    Dave,

    I do hope that you are correct concerning the long term viability of the new M9 repaired sensors. CCDs especially in that model
    do render color and light beautifully.

    I am more that pleased with the M-D sensor color and am pleased to have the larger battery. Without the LCD I am getting
    about 25% drop in battery at 450 exposures ... so perhaps 1200 per battery.

    The problems that Leica S camera and lenses have demonstrated are frustrating .... I almost gave up on
    Leica completely but they do have some great glass. I will stay with the M as the newer RF in the new bodies and
    overall feel to the camera is perfect for me. At this point less is more ... I do not need 8 lenses or four different systems.

    Bob

  5. #105
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    Re: Leica Service

    Bob,

    From yourself and others, I've been hearing about the improved color output of from the M-D camera. Thats good to hear as I and aome others were never much in favor of the color output from thr original M240. I will though have to conceed with firmware updates to thr M240, current output has definitely improved compared to when the camera was first relased but still far from what I personally prefer, the M9 series.

    Whats fustrating about the S system and specifically its lenses is its so darn good when it works properly but there comes a time along with a tip of the balance towards unreliabilty and dependabilty, when one questions whether its worth dealing with it all. Noatter how good a sysyem is, if you cannot depend on it consistantly when needed, it raises a red flag.

    Many years ago when I had a 1st generation Pentax DSLR that focused great under normal light situations, but would mis focus by a mile when shooting major stage productions with various kinds of lighting with wavelengths that would confuse and confound the af system. Most never experienced it since they weren't shooting under such conditions and simply said poppycock, but my working with Pentax at the time, had them eventually acknowledging its shorcomings. Bottom line, for my use it was simply deficient and unreliable and had to give up it and many of what was then highly prized Pentax optics. They of course have come a long way since then.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 21st October 2016 at 11:42.

  6. #106
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    Re: Leica Service

    Dave

    You are correct that there is a trade off point where reliability and frustration with use of a camera will force one
    out of the system ... in spite of all its good points. That was my decision with the S ... upgrade and still face
    lens failures or move ... and I do this as a release and a hobby. So while I do not have to meet anyone else's time
    frame or expectations I do value my time and when I get free to pursue this passion I want it to be as stress free
    as possible.

    It is interesting how Pentax has one of the best DSLRs out at the present time but they are now a bit hampered by
    lack of great lenses ... which at one point was their strength.

    I do like the color out of the M-D ... probably would like it out of the M240 at this point. I have just returned to profiling
    the camera and my Sekonic meter ... as there are occasional times I want to nail color and exposure ... as I find the dynamic
    range of the camera to be a bit less than that of the S cameras.

    I prefer to stay with Leica at this point and hope that with M lenses and CMOS M sensor I can keep away from NJ until the
    service issues are improved.

    Bob

  7. #107
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    Re: Leica Service

    Well said and planned out Bob. I know its not easy to abandon a well loved and appreciated system. Not only has reliability become a major issue with certain Leica products but now the service dept issues has compounded things greatly.

    Even if repair times are lengthy, an orderly and systematic approach is needed not only for the actual repairs, but a level of communication with the customer, so they don't feel like they and their equipment are stuck in a perminant black hole. We can only hope.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post

    Even if repair times are lengthy, an orderly and systematic approach is needed not only for the actual repairs, but a level of communication with the customer, so they don't feel like they and their equipment are stuck in a perminant black hole. We can only hope.

    Dave (D&A)
    And pray.


    Bob

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    Re: Leica Service

    Six months, still no estimate. "Because of the time difference the soonest we'll hear back from Germany is Monday".

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Six months, still no estimate. "Because of the time difference the soonest we'll hear back from Germany is Monday".
    The heck with the time difference, I think they are on a different planet.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Six months, still no estimate. "Because of the time difference the soonest we'll hear back from Germany is Monday".
    That's awful - I think part of the problem is having to play chinese whispers through a local office. . . . which doesn't necessarily mean that it's the private office's fault. Still - I always deal directly with Germany, and my experiences have been universally good.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Bob,

    I cannot speak directly for the S006 sensors that display corrosion and their replacement sensor but from what I understand (and its been noted repeatedly by a number of sources), new replacement sensors and specifically the cover glass for the M9 series of cameras is newly designed and the afixing of the cover glass and the cover glass itself is different than the original sensor/cover glass. Of course time will tell but in the M9 replacement sensor case, its supposed to have addressed the corrosion issue.

    I am not refering to M9/MM sensors replaced previous to early 2016, (they were simply the same old sensors), but the ones being used now. There have been no reports to my knowledge that any of the current sensor replacements in the M9 series has corroded.

    Dave (D&A)
    Hi There Dave
    I'm right with you on the M9 sensor replacements - I tested the colour sensor for the M9 (on my own old prototype camera), and the sense of relief at having fixed it was palpable - of course, there may be other troubles, but my sense is that they really have fixed it, and I'm confident in using my M9 and MM again without worrying. . . . . .

    Just this guy you know
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  13. #113
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Dave
    I'm right with you on the M9 sensor replacements - I tested the colour sensor for the M9 (on my own old prototype camera), and the sense of relief at having fixed it was palpable - of course, there may be other troubles, but my sense is that they really have fixed it, and I'm confident in using my M9 and MM again without worrying. . . . . .
    Good to hear Jono. That certainly instills confidence in continuing use of the equipment of which I also use those same two bodies.

    Regarding Leica N.J. service issues, the problem is most of here in the States cannot simply send items needing service to Germany (unless its something that can only be serviced in Germany). I wrote to Leica in Germany on a number of occasions to do so, and they repeatedly and completely discouraged sending it there. This is aside from the obvious high costs and declarations.

    Apparently those living overseas from the States have general praise for Leica Service from their local vendors or service stations or Leica Germany itself, but this thread unfortunately indicates a severe ongoing issue or issues with Leica N.J. and its hard to believe Leica Germany would let it go on for so long without intervening and finding a resolution. Its in their best interest in doing so since on many other sites, word has spread quickly discouraging purchase of their products here in the States. I find that sad.

    On a completely separate note while I have your ear, today a PM you sent to me in 2014 (on another photo forum) just showed up for the very first time today. Just a bit late wouldn't you say? LOL. I did though respond to it. Guess your receiving my response 2 years late fits in perfectly with this thread . Safe travels Jono.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 27th October 2016 at 15:28.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    On a completely separate note while I have your ear, today a PM you sent to me in 2014 (on another photo forum) just showed up for the very first time today. Just a bit late wouldn't you say? LOL. I did though respond to it. Guess your receiving my response 2 years late fits in perfectly with this thread . SAfe travels Jono.

    Dave (D&A)
    It does sound rather late . . I guess I was spouting rubbish as usual!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    It does sound rather late . . I guess I was spouting rubbish as usual!
    On the contrary Jono. No question or comment by you is ever rubbish, but a fountain of knowledge (whether its a statement or possibly a question). In this case though, I'm afraid my responding to it two years late, might mean you no longer have the camera in question or more likely you've already have your answer. In case neither is true, I have a ten year limit on restating questions, so fire away anytime...LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica Service

    Well, finally a positive story to share. I bought a second hand 70 Summarit-S lens with CS shutter, allegedly in perfect working order. AF failed on first mount to my Typ 006. Sent it directly to Germany for repair, total turn around time from US to Germany and back, including shipping, 16 days. I received multiple emails on status, without prompting.

    Now, I'm about to send in an M lens...will see if that gets the same professional treatment, or if I wait for months.

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    Re: Leica Service


    Here's hoping it's not an exception, but the new rule.
    --Matt

  18. #118
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    Re: Leica Service

    In terms of servicing equipment, I don't believe Leica Germany was much of an issue nor other Leica affiliated repair places around the world except in the States. Thats where most of the stories of inconsistant repairs times and communication has emminated from including logging in S equipment that ultimately was sent to Germany.

    I had two very lengthy conversations with someone who is intimately involved with Leica USA and will relay what was shared with me...but only the basic details as I want to respect the confidentiality of the situation.

    Leica Germany is well aware of what has/had been taking place within Leica USA regarding the often described fiasco regarding repairs/ communication, repairs times etc. The reasons are numerous, most of which cannot be addressed with simple fixes. The fustratiins are on both sides, the consumer as well as employees.

    Bottom line is its now in ernest being addressed but changes will come slowly over next 6 months. Some involve the installation of a complicated new computer log in system to keep track of repair inventory and training is needed to implement this.

    Same with communication with the consumer. Lastly the repair facilities will be enlarged and additional personel will be added to perform repairs which may eventually include servicing of Leica S equipment here in the States.

    Again not everything described above will be implemented immediately nor at the same time but is a start to long term, large scale changes. If successful, we can expect the long needed substantual positive changes to eventually take place.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 26th November 2016 at 04:10.
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    Re: Leica Service

    That is entirely consistent with what has dribbled down to me. It's a very high priority problem.

    --Matt

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    Re: Leica Service

    Thanks for post #118.

    Wonder why a computer login "system" to track repairs is so complicated. No argument, just wondering what makes it so complicated. Where's the keep it simple?

    For me, too little too late. I have moved on.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Here we go again with the party line out of NJ about customer service . First lets establish some scale of operations (as I spent a full day walking thru the customer service fiasco that happened back in 2008 with the M8 ). Leica NJ service department had less than dozen technicians . The customers service department was three including the manager .

    How many customer service orders would you guess they have . A few thousand at most my guess would be closer to 1000 . You could hire a few college kids from the local college and track those service orders on a MacBook . Those same temporary hires could communicate with customers thru emails . Its not any harder than that . What business would run without logging customer orders the day the repair item is received .

    They are installing SAP and finally after almost 10 years of using it at Wetzler they have figured out how to roll it out to NJ . It takes a lot of effort to implement SAP even for a small operation like NJ . Typically it requires using temporary labor and incurring plenty of overtime .

    The customer service problems in NJ are caused by both a lack of relevant experience and an unwillingness to spend even small sums to get the problem under control . Almost forgot and a complete absence of any performance information ..eg. Number of open orders , average days to complete,orders over 30,60,90 days in shop ....all things that could be done with an excel spreadsheet .

    So by all means start doing S repairs in NJ and see what happens to the business .

  22. #122
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    Re: Leica Service

    Surprised it isn t common knowledge regarding the Leica S lens failure . The weakness in the AF system is a small gear (?) that is bought from an outside supplier . It sometimes can not handle the torque generated by the AF system and strips . Leica claims the parts are defective .

    Leica has increased the speed of the AF with the newer releases of the S firmware . When a lens is mounted on a S body the system checks for lens firmware ,installs it and then runs a routine that focuses the lens . This is how they keep the lenses adjusted without the micro adjustments you see on Canon,Nikon etc. The AF system can fail when you are using a S2 or S 006 but its most common when using an S 007 . I believe that only the most recent release of the S 006 firmware pushes the AF system like an S 007 .

    Lenses that have not been used for a while and are mounted on a S 007 can fail during the firmware update . It stands to reason that the lenses with the heaviest elements and most movement required during focusing will introduce the highest load on the AF system. This is why so many 120/2.5 lenses have failed before they are even used . Lenses that have been sitting for a long while are often stiff and contributing to the problem .

    We tested 8 of my Leica S lenses on a S 007 last week and 2 failed immediately . The 24 and the 120 . They are on their way to Germany .

    My understanding is that the fix is straight forward ,done in Germany and thought to be a one time defect .

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    Re: Leica Service

    Honestly with the flustercuck that is Leica US service, I question why I'd buy anything via the official importer anymore.

    As I travel Asia annually, I can take advantage of local tax rebate and/or local deals, especially in HK. Buying in HK you often end up with the "international warranty" which.. if it means I need to send direct to Germany.. all the better from a US perspective.

    If it makes anyone feel better, I am having a worse experience with T-Mobile at the moment.

    Sometimes I worry it's just an "American Customer Service" issue generally.

    The customer is always wrong, we don't have to communicate to you proactively, it's your job to chase us, we don't return emails, we don't return voicemails, and good luck navigating our call tree. Oh you got a human to pickup? Wrong department, they are going to transfer you back to the call tree.
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    Re: Leica Service

    And now for some Leica DEALER service comments:

    Tony Rose (popflash.com) heard of my 280's service (or lack thereof) and has volunteered to take this to whatever level it takes to get the lens repaired. If he delivers he's earned my business. It's been SEVEN months now, and not even an estimate for repair.
    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    And now for some Leica DEALER service comments:

    Tony Rose (popflash.com) heard of my 280's service (or lack thereof) and has volunteered to take this to whatever level it takes to get the lens repaired. If he delivers he's earned my business. It's been SEVEN months now, and not even an estimate for repair.
    This is great news ! My dealer (Leica Miami ) really does a great job in supporting me and without them I would have given up on Leica . Hopefully Tony will be able to get Leica to understand how much this impacts their business.
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: Leica Service

    So, sending a lens like the APO 280/4 or Vario 105-280/4.2 for service to Leica in Germany would result in a reasonable (less than 1 month) turn around time with a technically good outcome? Should that be my expectation?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Leica Service

    I've needed Leica service at least three times and sent things to Germany, with good results and ability to track the work. The only repair that took an unusually long time was when I had a damaged rear element on a lens replaced (my fault, but passport warranty). The lens was still quite new, not being shipped in volume. However, be aware that shipping expensive goods across borders requires some complicated paperwork, if you are not to wind up paying duty on the full value of your camera or lens when it returns. In Israel, that is 20%, more or less. So it is important to establish that this is an instrument that you already have paid for, going out for repair and coming back to its original owner.

    I think for R lenses, you are justified to send to Germany, since these are serviced but no longer manufactured.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So, sending a lens like the APO 280/4 or Vario 105-280/4.2 for service to Leica in Germany would result in a reasonable (less than 1 month) turn around time with a technically good outcome? Should that be my expectation?
    K-H

    Watch out. I had Leica Miami send a R 180/2.8 to Germany only for a CLA. Somehow the lens got put aside and even though that dealer was on top of it a mess ensued with it taking like 3 months and only after Dale Photo got on top of it.

    If it were you or me it would be 6 months or longer I am sure. Basically Leica customer service sucks IMHO. That is why I have moved on.
    Last edited by algrove; 26th November 2016 at 16:42.
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    Re: Leica Service

    My experience too – I've had a two-month repair (lens) and two 5-month ones (Frankenfinder and M-E sensor).

    Using my 35 and 50 Leica lenses on Sony A7rII now (with Kolari M-lens mod). RX1rII has replaced my M+35mm as a carry-around companion.

    Awful service is my main reason for forgoing Leica. For me it's an even more serious problem than overpricing and behind-the-times sensors. Who, after all, would buy a car if the brand were known for delayed servicing?

    Hope I can resist if/when Leica offers an up-to-date M.

    Kirk

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    My experience too – I've had a two-month repair (lens) and two 5-month ones (Frankenfinder and M-E sensor).
    I'd consider a two-month lens repair to be unusually quick, three or four months has been typical for the 280/4 APO. When my R8 developed a sticky aperture actuating mechanism it took a year and several round-trips between Sacramento and Leica USA to fix it.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So, sending a lens like the APO 280/4 or Vario 105-280/4.2 for service to Leica in Germany would result in a reasonable (less than 1 month) turn around time with a technically good outcome? Should that be my expectation?
    IDK about other lenses but Leica in Germany no longer has parts for the 280/4 APO R lens. My lens is coming back un-repaired with profuse apologies from Leica. Kudos to Tony Rose (popflash.com) for his persistence and for digging for responses from Leica. He has earned my business.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    IDK about other lenses but Leica in Germany no longer has parts for the 280/4 APO R lens. My lens is coming back un-repaired with profuse apologies from Leica. Kudos to Tony Rose (popflash.com) for his persistence and for digging for responses from Leica. He has earned my business.
    Doug,

    Can you remind us why you sent in your 280/4 APO R? What was wrong with it?

    dgktkr

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by dgktkr View Post
    Doug,

    Can you remind us why you sent in your 280/4 APO R? What was wrong with it?

    dgktkr
    I did a stoopid and dropped it. Dented front rim, focus has several tight spots suggesting a deformed cam. Still usable but the focus tight spots are a problem with active birds.

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    Re: Leica Service

    I'm reaching the end of my rope with Leica. I started this thread four months ago. I still haven't heard a word on my 50 mm Sumicron ASP. (other than the email acknowledgment of receipt) a lens that I sent to NJ for service in April.

    I now have a personal moratorium on buying Leica gear. I have no interest whatsoever in the soon-to-be announced M10, unless and until the service issue is fully addressed. I'm selling my Leica gear selectively.

    I've been working hard with a Sony A7Rii for the last couple of months - working on getting a look out of it that resembles my Monochrom. After substantial effort it's getting there. There is some fabulous new e-mount glass. The Sony system has terrific flexibility.

    I know that Leica's senior management is aware of the service problem but they are doing a terrible job of communicating. Their website page on service is simply a lie (at least for people in the US): https://us.leica-camera.com/Service-...ervice-Support

    Leica's reliability and service issues are killing the Leica brand in the US. It will take years for them to recover even if they do get their service and reliability act together.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Woody


    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Well finally I can chime in with my experience. Late last year I bought a second Monochrom body so that I could carry a two-body/two-lens setup and to have a backup in case there was a service issue with my existing Monochrom. After my new body arrived I sent the old one in to NJ for service, including a sensor replacement. It came back in April completely refurbished and in excellent working condition. In the meantime the frame line lever came of of my new Monochrom and disappeared, probably on the streets of NY So . . .

    In mid April 2016 I sent to Leica NJ for service the following:

    The new Monochrom with the missing frame lever with instructions to replace it with a chrome lever if possible (a little vanity on my part).

    My 135 APO Telyt for a CLA and 6-bit coding. The lens was apparently performing well but it's a nuisance not having it coded.

    My 50mm Sumichrom Asp. The is one of the earliest copies of this lens - its been in continuous heavy daily use for three years. I sent it in asking for a CLA and asked them to check that it was in spec from a flair standpoint. I had read the early flair controversy on the lens but never sorted out whether there was really a problem because I was satisfied with the lens. The front segment of the lens mount had developed a slight amount of play. My back up 50mm is a pristine 50mm rigid Sumichron from 1962 so I could suffer the absence of the Asp. in good humor.

    Not a peep until the end of May when I received 3 email acknowledgements of receipt that ended with "Thank you and have a nice day", which irritated me sufficiently that I sent back a fairly tough reply.

    Nothing further until early July when I received estimates back from Leica by email for the 135 APO and body, but not the 50mm APO. I received a separate email note on July 13 that the lens had been sent to Germany for repairs.

    The Monochrom and the Telyt arrived back on my doorstep on Sept 1. I have no idea of where the 50mm Asp. since Leica doesn't reply to emails and the voice mail box in NJ is full so you can't leave a message.

    The Monochrom is perfect and a pleasure to shoot with. The Telyt seemed fine with minor issues; it was returned detailing a significant amount of work, and shooting over the past several days suggests that it deserves it reputation as the best 135 every by any manufacturer.

    So there you have it, the good and the bad of Leica. Expect a 4 month turn around on repairs and maintenance, at least until they get the M sensor replacements and S autofocus issues sorted. The good part is that for me the Monochrom and M lenses are without peer in their niche. Bottom line: if you're relying on this stuff for serious work on a daily basis you need to plan on a serious backup strategy, which makes an expensive system even more so.
    woody
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    Re: Leica Service

    Woody
    I'm in your camp except that where I mainly post street images online (or print smallish) I now use the Fuji XT-2 and where I want large prints (landscape) I use the XF+100MP.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Aside from actual length of time to service equipment or how well its performed, what many companies don't get or don't want to put any effort into is timely communication with their customers and I am not only referring to Leica. As we have seen on a number of threads here on Getdpi, whether its service related, a delay in a product release or any other number of company to user related issues, the lack of approprite timely communication with their customer base is often appaling. Instead of realizing a loyal customer assures their future survival, they often act as they are doing us a favor or its somrthing not necessary to address.

    A while back in my conversations with a well known popular company who was having such issues, it was told to me that they weren't too concerned as the majority of their customers, no matter how much they expressed displeasure and threatened to not support the company with future purchases, would ultimately modify their stance once they got their repaired product back or in some cases desired new products released in the future due to their popularity.

    Personally I think this is the wrong approach and in the long run will not serve any of them well, especially as more options are made available elsewhere as pointed out by others.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 4th December 2016 at 02:02.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Leica's reliability and service issues are killing the Leica brand in the US. It will take years for them to recover even if they do get their service and reliability act together.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Woody

    As one who has been trying to sell one of my S system lenses for months now, I would say that this is a bit of an understatement.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Dave

    Boy, are you right how the wrong the approach mentioned at the end of your post could very well be for a camera company. Especially today, there are just too many good to excellent OTHER choices out there for any company to feel secure with constant customer complaints.

    Once I got tired of the repair BS, initial M240 body fixes needed (cable release threading and lockups which were denied to my face while at Solms CS after traveling from Florida USA) and other serious issues like sensor failures and then S lens failures, I sold 30 R lenses and 60 M lenses not to mention about 8 M bodies.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Dave

    Boy, are you right how the wrong the approach mentioned at the end of your post could very well be for a camera company. Especially today, there are just too many good to excellent OTHER choices out there for any company to feel secure with constant customer complaints.

    Once I got tired of the repair BS, initial M240 body fixes needed (cable release threading and lockups which were denied to my face while at Solms CS after traveling from Florida USA) and other serious issues like sensor failures and then S lens failures, I sold 30 R lenses and 60 M lenses not to mention about 8 M bodies.

    Thanks Lou. Pretty amazing numbers. One question I have, how many cents to a $ initial investment did you recover on average? Is a guess of 50% too high or too low? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Lou. Pretty amazing numbers. One question I have, how many cents to a $ initial investment did you recover on average? Is a guess of 50% too high or too low? TIA.
    I think it was way better than 50% (with some more than my cost and others not much under cost) as many I sold while demand was high except for the last 30 M lenses. Ever since Leica ramped up production most M lenses became even over-stocked at dealer levels and then the numbers hit me much harder. Some dealers even express there is much less demand as many Leica users have switched to Sony or other less pricey brands. With many of those other brands 2 bodies is less necessary than with Leica where lengthy repairs (or problems) seem to occur. I still like and use 2 bodies for street use so lens changing is less necessary. Just think, two M bodies are around $15k and 2 XT-2 bodies are just over $3k. That is a HUGE difference. As a matter of fact, I have not come close to spending the nearly $12k difference in all nine XF lenses detailed below. Two XT-2 bodies and 9 super lenses cost less than just two M bodies with plenty to spare. For some there is no comparison, but for others who truly search their mind as to how they use their files, then this comparison is meaningful. Failing eye sight caused me to search for alternatives in addition to the service and new product miscues as I started to miss too many decisive moments.

    Every time I buy a Fuji XF lens I am amazed at how little I spend for a new lens compared to Leica M lenses. For my needs (small 13x19 prints or online images) the Fuji lenses perform as good as the Leica M's. Many Leicaphiles object to this comment, but often they are Leica users who have never owned and/or used Fuji XF primes (or even zooms for that matter) combined with say an XT-2. At first I thought a $500-800 lens could not match a Leica $5000 M lens just due to price, but once I pixel peeped up to 200% in C1 I was very pleastantly surprised. Not only do they compare well, but keep in mind they all autofocus (yes one can manual focus Fujis too) in less than 1 second.

    For street, I like primes like the 16/1.4, 23/2, 35/2, 56/1.2, or 90/2 with 4 of those weather resistant. For other needs and again most are weather resistant (street can be included at the 2 lower FL lenses noted), 10-24(15-35), 16-55 (24-82), 50-140 (75-210), 100-400 (150-600) and 1.4x and 2x, these lenses sure make a complete kit. Sure they are APS-C, but I have found out that the format is OK with me. Keep in mind the crop factor is 1.5.

    K-H sorry this got to darn long, but I wanted you to understand much of my rational for switching.

    Louis Foubare
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    Re: Leica Service

    Louis you know full well there is no way you can capture meaningful and memorable artistic images with something like an APS camera and lens system such as Fuji's. We all know its the equipment, not the photographer. Therefore since your images "sing" and a delight to view, maybe there is something wrong with this stated logic. . Guess some reevaluation is in order.

    Dave (D&A)
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    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Good to hear APS Fuji is working out for you Louis.

    Optical qualities are a matter of subjective opinion, as are different formats.

    Personally, I've tried a lot of different systems and remain steadfast in my preference for Leica optics and FF+ sensors ... not out of some elitist nonsense, but because it is ingrained in my aesthetic proclivities developed over decades of use and connection with successful imagery (to my eye), personally and professionally.

    However, if Leica (or anyone else) thinks they can tread heavily on such preferences with abuses such as poor engineering, zero communication and ridiculous service experiences they need to rethink that posture swiftly.

    I know from my professional marketing background that gaining back lost clients is far more expensive and difficult compared to keeping them happy when they already prefer you. What Leica is doing to their loyal base is
    downright suicidal. Now with web based communications, every poor experience is made public, every engineering error or "cost savings material choice" circumnavigates the globe in hours. Leica seems to act as if this wasn't a modern marketing reality.

    While I applaud Leica for standing behind some epidemic product defects such as cracked sensor covers, sensor corrosion, and failed AF gearing ... the massively inconvenient, long drawn out, no feed-back follow up is beyond ludicrous, and IMO is personally insulting ... not to mention downright nerve-wracking.

    My belief in, and preference for, Leica has cost me dearly. The reward to cost ratio is now well beyond any justification.

    Unfortunately, unlike some here, I can no longer afford to cut those losses since Leica seems to be working overtime to devaluate the gear I do have ... primarily the S system and to a lesser degree my MM body (which fortunately seems to be staving off the corrosion issue so far).

    My work-around to maintain some Leica optical qualities has been to use long held M lenses on a Sony body made all the more versatile with the Techart AF adapter. The mechanical M lenses can be serviced elsewhere if repairs are needed, but so far that has been unnecessary.

    - Marc
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    Re: Leica Service

    Lou please send back your “Leica Fan Boy” pin and certificate !

    Roger

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Lou please send back your “Leica Fan Boy” pin and certificate !

    Roger
    Well, if all disgruntled Leica fans do that, they're going to get more mail than Santa
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    Re: Leica Service

    As a positive note and with all that has been voiced acknowleged, I must say that, all of the frustrations and catastrophies aside, my S kit, when in good repair, is unmatched in nearly all respects; If I manage to get things right on my end the camera does its part exceptionally well. For me and much of what I do, the inclusion of an on camera TTL flash is an additional major boon that often goes unmentioned.

    Douglas
    Last edited by pesto; 4th December 2016 at 06:22.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto View Post
    As a positive note and with all that has voiced acknowleged, I must say that, all of the frustrations and catastrophies aside, my S kit, when in good repair, is unmatched in nearly all respects; If I manage to get things right on my end the camera does its part exceptionally well. For me and much of what I do, the inclusion of an on camera TTL flash is an additional major boon that often goes unmentioned.

    Douglas
    Yes, Douglas, especially down here in this beautiful Florida light!

    It IS pretty nifty to shoot on-camera speed-lights at high shutter speeds without resorting to weak HSS.

    However, it does all have to be in good repair ... which unfortunately is the issue for far too many folks, far too many times.

    My CS-70 is still in the black hole of Leica service with nary a word from them, not even acknowledgment they have it, (had to affirm that with UPS myself).

    Sent in October 28, hoping I get it back by the the end of January or February ... Sigh ...

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Lou please send back your “Leica Fan Boy” pin and certificate !

    Roger
    You know me Roger and as such I use the certificate as a dart board background and the pin is still in good shape just to prove I spent considerable sums with Leica.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Marc
    Did not know you had a winter escape plan. Would be great to meet up this winter somewhere. Roger and I plan on trying a few days in the Keys. Must look up where your winter residence is located. As a recall many from MI settle on the West coast as that's where I-75 comes into FL since I grew up in Midland.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, Douglas, especially down here in this beautiful Florida light!

    It IS pretty nifty to shoot on-camera speed-lights at high shutter speeds without resorting to weak HSS.

    However, it does all have to be in good repair ... which unfortunately is the issue for far too many folks, far too many times.

    My CS-70 is still in the black hole of Leica service with nary a word from them, not even acknowledgment they have it, (had to affirm that with UPS myself).

    Sent in October 28, hoping I get it back by the the end of January or February ... Sigh ...

    - Marc
    Could you send it direct to Germany if it happens again? Turnaround is way faster, i had a motor replaced and it was just over a week,UPS or FedEx could get it to Wetzlar very fast, I also rang direct and got call back from an engineer, very fast too.

    Rob

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