The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Leica Service

aDam007

New member
Marc, I haven't yet felt your pain, but...
I recently purchased an S35 which had the Leica repair to the motor gear. I understand Leica is replacing the plastic gear with a metal one - quite similar to the problem I had with my 60's era Maserati's electric windows. However, I wonder if all repair facilities have the metal gear in stock and if some of the repairs consisted of replacing the gear with the same spec plastic component :facesmack:.
But mostly the situation sucks and Leica's lack of forthcoming only exacerbates the issue.

Actually Leica is using the same plastic gear AFAIK. A company in China will do a metal gear replacement if you'd like, but you forfeit any goodwill warranty with Leica Germany.
 

aDam007

New member
Adam,

To me the CCD Leica cameras are no longer tenable .... perhaps something in the spec of the sensor covers
allowed the corrosion to occur. But it seems not to be a random event but more pervasive in nature.

Shame of it is that the color of the 006 is really really good ...

But ... after running around Scotland with a Q and a recent change ... all my S gone ... I purchased a M-D. Thorsten Overgaard suggests that
the color of the M60 and M-D might be different than that of the 240 ... perhaps due to lack of circuitry for live view? I find it stunning with the 50 APO Summicron ...
and am very pleased to be free of the AF issues and hopefully concerns with corrosion of the sensor. Seems quite organic ... although the DR is
not up to the S I can work around it. The purity of color with the APO is stellar.

Hard to imagine what the course of the S would have been without sensor issues and if the cheap
AF gear had not been used ... as this and the M CCD corrosion issue have overwhelmed Leica.

For all their limitations Leica still has some amazing glass ...


Bob

Well I've mostly sold all my Leica gear (as I mentioned above). I will admit I prematurely sold my M240-P bodies out of anger mostly (I had quite a few). So I MIGHT get myself another color M since the M246 isn't an ideal camera for me (not sure if I want to keep the mono or not). The only M lens I have and will ever need is the 50APO (I know this now after owning 22 M lenses in one shot, and more then that in total if you count the amount of times I've purchased and sold M lenses).

So it's good to hear that you think the M-D has something a little extra than the M240-P has. I'm curious to check it out, as I'm either going to get the new color M (whenever it comes out, but if it shares the same sensor as the SL I'll pass). Or I'm going to get the M-D because I like the idea of no screen. Or I'll get another M240-P since I really cannot see myself needing much more out of a camera.


And YES the 50APO is beyond words :D
 

D&A

Well-known member
Bob,

I cannot speak directly for the S006 sensors that display corrosion and their replacement sensor but from what I understand (and its been noted repeatedly by a number of sources), new replacement sensors and specifically the cover glass for the M9 series of cameras is newly designed and the afixing of the cover glass and the cover glass itself is different than the original sensor/cover glass. Of course time will tell but in the M9 replacement sensor case, its supposed to have addressed the corrosion issue.

I am not refering to M9/MM sensors replaced previous to early 2016, (they were simply the same old sensors), but the ones being used now. There have been no reports to my knowledge that any of the current sensor replacements in the M9 series has corroded.

Dave (D&A)
 
Last edited:

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Dave,

I do hope that you are correct concerning the long term viability of the new M9 repaired sensors. CCDs especially in that model
do render color and light beautifully.

I am more that pleased with the M-D sensor color and am pleased to have the larger battery. Without the LCD I am getting
about 25% drop in battery at 450 exposures ... so perhaps 1200 per battery.

The problems that Leica S camera and lenses have demonstrated are frustrating .... I almost gave up on
Leica completely but they do have some great glass. I will stay with the M as the newer RF in the new bodies and
overall feel to the camera is perfect for me. At this point less is more ... I do not need 8 lenses or four different systems.

Bob
 

D&A

Well-known member
Bob,

From yourself and others, I've been hearing about the improved color output of from the M-D camera. Thats good to hear as I and aome others were never much in favor of the color output from thr original M240. I will though have to conceed with firmware updates to thr M240, current output has definitely improved compared to when the camera was first relased but still far from what I personally prefer, the M9 series.

Whats fustrating about the S system and specifically its lenses is its so darn good when it works properly but there comes a time along with a tip of the balance towards unreliabilty and dependabilty, when one questions whether its worth dealing with it all. Noatter how good a sysyem is, if you cannot depend on it consistantly when needed, it raises a red flag.

Many years ago when I had a 1st generation Pentax DSLR that focused great under normal light situations, but would mis focus by a mile when shooting major stage productions with various kinds of lighting with wavelengths that would confuse and confound the af system. Most never experienced it since they weren't shooting under such conditions and simply said poppycock, but my working with Pentax at the time, had them eventually acknowledging its shorcomings. Bottom line, for my use it was simply deficient and unreliable and had to give up it and many of what was then highly prized Pentax optics. They of course have come a long way since then.

Dave (D&A)
 
Last edited:

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Dave

You are correct that there is a trade off point where reliability and frustration with use of a camera will force one
out of the system ... in spite of all its good points. That was my decision with the S ... upgrade and still face
lens failures or move ... and I do this as a release and a hobby. So while I do not have to meet anyone else's time
frame or expectations I do value my time and when I get free to pursue this passion I want it to be as stress free
as possible.

It is interesting how Pentax has one of the best DSLRs out at the present time but they are now a bit hampered by
lack of great lenses ... which at one point was their strength.

I do like the color out of the M-D ... probably would like it out of the M240 at this point. I have just returned to profiling
the camera and my Sekonic meter ... as there are occasional times I want to nail color and exposure ... as I find the dynamic
range of the camera to be a bit less than that of the S cameras.

I prefer to stay with Leica at this point and hope that with M lenses and CMOS M sensor I can keep away from NJ until the
service issues are improved.

Bob
 

D&A

Well-known member
Well said and planned out Bob. I know its not easy to abandon a well loved and appreciated system. Not only has reliability become a major issue with certain Leica products but now the service dept issues has compounded things greatly.

Even if repair times are lengthy, an orderly and systematic approach is needed not only for the actual repairs, but a level of communication with the customer, so they don't feel like they and their equipment are stuck in a perminant black hole. We can only hope.

Dave (D&A)
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Even if repair times are lengthy, an orderly and systematic approach is needed not only for the actual repairs, but a level of communication with the customer, so they don't feel like they and their equipment are stuck in a perminant black hole. We can only hope.

Dave (D&A)
And pray.


Bob
 

doug

Well-known member
Six months, still no estimate. "Because of the time difference the soonest we'll hear back from Germany is Monday".
 

jonoslack

Active member
Six months, still no estimate. "Because of the time difference the soonest we'll hear back from Germany is Monday".
That's awful - I think part of the problem is having to play chinese whispers through a local office. . . . which doesn't necessarily mean that it's the private office's fault. Still - I always deal directly with Germany, and my experiences have been universally good.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Bob,

I cannot speak directly for the S006 sensors that display corrosion and their replacement sensor but from what I understand (and its been noted repeatedly by a number of sources), new replacement sensors and specifically the cover glass for the M9 series of cameras is newly designed and the afixing of the cover glass and the cover glass itself is different than the original sensor/cover glass. Of course time will tell but in the M9 replacement sensor case, its supposed to have addressed the corrosion issue.

I am not refering to M9/MM sensors replaced previous to early 2016, (they were simply the same old sensors), but the ones being used now. There have been no reports to my knowledge that any of the current sensor replacements in the M9 series has corroded.

Dave (D&A)
Hi There Dave
I'm right with you on the M9 sensor replacements - I tested the colour sensor for the M9 (on my own old prototype camera), and the sense of relief at having fixed it was palpable - of course, there may be other troubles, but my sense is that they really have fixed it, and I'm confident in using my M9 and MM again without worrying. . . . . .
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi There Dave
I'm right with you on the M9 sensor replacements - I tested the colour sensor for the M9 (on my own old prototype camera), and the sense of relief at having fixed it was palpable - of course, there may be other troubles, but my sense is that they really have fixed it, and I'm confident in using my M9 and MM again without worrying. . . . . .
Good to hear Jono. That certainly instills confidence in continuing use of the equipment of which I also use those same two bodies.

Regarding Leica N.J. service issues, the problem is most of here in the States cannot simply send items needing service to Germany (unless its something that can only be serviced in Germany). I wrote to Leica in Germany on a number of occasions to do so, and they repeatedly and completely discouraged sending it there. This is aside from the obvious high costs and declarations.

Apparently those living overseas from the States have general praise for Leica Service from their local vendors or service stations or Leica Germany itself, but this thread unfortunately indicates a severe ongoing issue or issues with Leica N.J. and its hard to believe Leica Germany would let it go on for so long without intervening and finding a resolution. Its in their best interest in doing so since on many other sites, word has spread quickly discouraging purchase of their products here in the States. I find that sad.

On a completely separate note while I have your ear, today a PM you sent to me in 2014 (on another photo forum) just showed up for the very first time today. Just a bit late wouldn't you say? LOL. I did though respond to it. Guess your receiving my response 2 years late fits in perfectly with this thread :). Safe travels Jono.

Dave (D&A)
 
Last edited:

jonoslack

Active member
On a completely separate note while I have your ear, today a PM you sent to me in 2014 (on another photo forum) just showed up for the very first time today. Just a bit late wouldn't you say? LOL. I did though respond to it. Guess your receiving my response 2 years late fits in perfectly with this thread :). SAfe travels Jono.

Dave (D&A)
It does sound rather late . . I guess I was spouting rubbish as usual!
 

D&A

Well-known member
It does sound rather late . . I guess I was spouting rubbish as usual!
On the contrary Jono. No question or comment by you is ever rubbish, but a fountain of knowledge (whether its a statement or possibly a question). In this case though, I'm afraid my responding to it two years late, might mean you no longer have the camera in question or more likely you've already have your answer. In case neither is true, I have a ten year limit on restating questions, so fire away anytime...LOL!

Dave (D&A)
 

jeffwright

New member
Well, finally a positive story to share. I bought a second hand 70 Summarit-S lens with CS shutter, allegedly in perfect working order. AF failed on first mount to my Typ 006. Sent it directly to Germany for repair, total turn around time from US to Germany and back, including shipping, 16 days. I received multiple emails on status, without prompting.

Now, I'm about to send in an M lens...will see if that gets the same professional treatment, or if I wait for months.
 

D&A

Well-known member
In terms of servicing equipment, I don't believe Leica Germany was much of an issue nor other Leica affiliated repair places around the world except in the States. Thats where most of the stories of inconsistant repairs times and communication has emminated from including logging in S equipment that ultimately was sent to Germany.

I had two very lengthy conversations with someone who is intimately involved with Leica USA and will relay what was shared with me...but only the basic details as I want to respect the confidentiality of the situation.

Leica Germany is well aware of what has/had been taking place within Leica USA regarding the often described fiasco regarding repairs/ communication, repairs times etc. The reasons are numerous, most of which cannot be addressed with simple fixes. The fustratiins are on both sides, the consumer as well as employees.

Bottom line is its now in ernest being addressed but changes will come slowly over next 6 months. Some involve the installation of a complicated new computer log in system to keep track of repair inventory and training is needed to implement this.

Same with communication with the consumer. Lastly the repair facilities will be enlarged and additional personel will be added to perform repairs which may eventually include servicing of Leica S equipment here in the States.

Again not everything described above will be implemented immediately nor at the same time but is a start to long term, large scale changes. If successful, we can expect the long needed substantual positive changes to eventually take place.

Dave (D&A)
 
Last edited:

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
That is entirely consistent with what has dribbled down to me. It's a very high priority problem.

--Matt
 

algrove

Well-known member
Thanks for post #118.

Wonder why a computer login "system" to track repairs is so complicated. No argument, just wondering what makes it so complicated. Where's the keep it simple?

For me, too little too late. I have moved on.
 
Top