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Thread: Toys I played with at PMA

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    Toys I played with at PMA

    Today at PMA I spent a fair amount of time at the Leica booth. I was less interests in the S2 but more interested in new M lenses and goodies.
    I shot a bit with the new 24 lux, the new 18 and the new Nocti. I'm in lust over the 24 lux. I didn't find it too big and heavy. It didn't seem hard to get good focus wide open yum! I will post later. I think Guy brought a laptop. The 18 is a great size and again I'm a bit in lust. The Nocti I put on the G1 just to give evryone a heart attack for a zillion dollar lens on my litttle blue thingy. Wow, great to focus on that camera. Again I will post pics later.

    I met Tim Isaacs in the flesh and saw all his goodies. The magnifiers, viewfinder cups and thumbs up all looked great. I did manage to score his "boop" shutter release. I think others liked the convex "beep" better. Thanks Tim!

    Finally, from Leica Land, the new flash looks huge but it is pretty darn light. Felt lighter than my Nikon SB800.

    Overall the show was not that crowded. It was the last day but it still didn't have a "buzz". Not a lot of interesting new cameras to want to look at. Played a bit with the new Oly 620. The Sony A900 was sweet to operate although I can see why people would love the ergonomic grip I think I would need to exercise one of my fingers more (where there is an indetation for comfort it didn't quite feel right.

    Now I need a drink to figure out if I cut back lenses ( save no money) and swap a 28 cron and 21 elmarit for a 24 lux. Which you know would never end up cost neutral as I would want the 18!!!!!!!

    I'm going to post some Panasonic GH1 comments in the other forum.
    Last edited by Terry; 5th March 2009 at 17:06.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Yeah, the 24 Lux almost makes me want to out and buy an M8. Man, a sharp as hell 24mm F1.4 lens... truly an object worthy of lust.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Yeah, the 24 Lux almost makes me want to out and buy an M8. Man, a sharp as hell 24mm F1.4 lens... truly an object worthy of lust.
    I'm sitting with Guy. He says yes buy an M8 plus that lens. The filter setup is quite nice how it slots into the shade. You woulda thought for $6000 they would throw in the filter. Nope.

    Guy will post his thoughts later.

    Forgot to mention the Safari edition. Actually pretty cool looking.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Hello Terry, thanks for the info but I wasn't listening when you said the 24 Lux and 18 are yummy - must be real yummy if it makes you even think about giving up the 28.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Very much looking forward to the sample images!!

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    OK,
    Here are a few different shots with the new 24mm summilux straight from the camera one has a little bit of highlight recovery. No cropping nothing else done.


    Attachment 13182


    Attachment 13180


    Attachment 13181


    Attachment 13179

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Now a few from the new Noctilux

    Attachment 13184

    crop
    Attachment 13188


    Attachment 13183


    Can't resist....the Nocti on my G1

    Attachment 13189


    Attachment 13186

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    And I can't resist....but won't name lens cap names....


    Attachment 13190

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Great!! Thanks for posting them. That 24 lux looks oh oh, so so SWEET!!! Definitely on the "someday" list.

    I'm particularly impressed with the Nocti shots, however. Was that wide open?

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Hi Lloyd,

    Guy took the three M8 Nocti shots. I thought they were all wide open. My shot of Guy from the G1 was not. It was around f2.8. Here is one wide open look at the difference in his nose. I was focusing on the outside of his right eye (yes Guy knows he is a good model for trying to focus testing lenses). I was pretty much as close as I could get. Guy was a bit further back and we also had different sensor sizes.


    Attachment 13191

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    The difference is interesting. I think I prefer the results at 2.8 for a portrait... in the wide open version Guy's ear looks like it belongs to someone behind him, and his nose is a little powdery. Very impressive sharpness with that lens, however. Thanks again for posting these. Most interesting.
    Last edited by Lloyd; 6th March 2009 at 19:55.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Lloyd that Guy not Jack....Also, Guy's shots of the woman were all wide open but he was definitely further away from the subject not just the difference in the field of view from the different sensor sizes. I was purposely at the closest focusing distance.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Doh!!! Of course it's Guy... my bad.

    I am impressed with those of the woman wide open. Hmmm... pretty steep price of admission... but, maybe someday.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    hey I have nice ears
    LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Just sayin'

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    still need a plastic surgeon though. Those crusty age lines are great test subjects, too bad I actually have to live with them
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Terry

    What do you think of the "bokeh" on the new Noctilux. On film the Noctilux was the only way to shoot some available light/night situations. With digital its more about creatively using selective focus and using the "glow" and smooth bokeh to create a unique look. The new Noctilux looks like a faster version of the 50 1.4 asph .

    The 24 1.4 has the look of the 35 lux ...does this seem right?

    Not trying to knock either lens but at this level of expenditure..understanding the signature is as important as the obvious exceptional image quality.

    Roger

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Roger I was actually pretty impressed at the bokeh of the Nocti and you may know i was not a big fan of the older style. I hated that weird look sometimes. For some reason this looks smoother but obviously we where limited to the showroom floor. Terry may have a couple shots on the card I took with some distance in there that maybe she can post even though just some quickies.

    Now the 24mm i was pretty impressed by and your right looks like a 35 lux bokeh. This is a sweetie of a lens. I really liked what was going on with the background and the 3d separation between subject and background . Those shots Terry took you can see it pretty clearly the nice falloff. Frankly I would like to test the new Nocti and the 24mm more
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Here are some additional shots. First at a distance on the Nocti. The last one is a bit OOF but it will still give you an idea of the bokeh which seems much more well behaved to me than the old version although I know some people love the old version.

    Attachment 13201


    Attachment 13200


    Attachment 13199


    Attachment 13198

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Now the 18mm - Look for David Farkas' posts possibly on his blog for shots with the 18 and 24. I know he had them on loan for the night from Leica and he had some great shots with both lenses.


    Attachment 13202


    Also the 24 at a distance - this shot is really nothing but am including it so you can see the very nice rendering of the Leica brochures in the front right corner that are gently out of focus. Again David took some close range "brick wall" shots with the lens that were incredibly distortion free.

    Attachment 13203


    Here is the link to David's blog with WAY better pictures and great information on the lenses.

    http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Guy

    This is an interesting discussion and could morph into a question of lens character and photographic style. I think comparing lens signatures is extremely helpful. If the 24 Lux looks like the 35 lux then they got it right. You have to assume a fast lens is designed to pull strong images out of weak light and to provide exceptional selective focus. Both known qualities of the 35 lux.

    The offer the alternative of the 24/3.8 which looks like the color,landscape,travel option. Minimal distortion ,strong color and resolution and small form.

    Not so clear how the 50 noctilux fits in ...except that its a standard bearer....a super fast version of the 50 1.4 asph....which I guess is reasonable positioning. But...it will be quite different than the original Noctilux signature . Personally I prefer the ability to dial in the level of sharpness...like the 50 pre asph . But thats what makes the system so great ..you have real alternatives.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Did Mr McGoo show up for a special appearance


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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Guy/Terry

    The images are helpful thank you. What does "well behaved" mean? If your purpose in shooting at F1.0 is to create a selective focus by rendering the OF into a smooth palate ...then the new Noctilux doesn t work. This is similar to the 50 1.4 asph ..the lens performs at such a high level that the OF areas often appear to contain significant information. They just look like slightly OF areas .

    The model shot is a good example ..the gold background has well defined edges with strong contrast.... distracting ? The old Noctilux would render those edges much softer. The shots from a longer distance require a little inspection to find the focus point....which means a lot more of the image is almost sharp . You can of course deal with this in post processing .

    I realize that the event floor really sucks for lens testing ..what could look good under those lights? What I had hoped for in the new Noctilux was a rendering like the 28 summicron or the 90 APO verse the newer optimizations like the 50 1.4 asph.

    I fully understand that using different priorities one might prefer the new look to the mushy look of the original noctilux ....but my priority would be to exploit the selective focus character of the lens......otherwise i would just pick one of the 50 1.4 s .

    I am putting my $$$$ on the 21 1.4 which may be the ultimate street shooting lens. Thanks for sharing the images they are very useful.

    Roger

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    "well behaved" to me stems from what I consider some weird bokeh that I've seen on the old nocti where the background might have been more busy or not quite far enough away and didn't go to smooth like you are stating. I use the 50 pre-lux and like it. Trying out the Nocti was a bit of a lark for me as I can't see owning a $10,000 lens for the stop beyond my $1600 50 lux that I now use. My fun was how easy it was to get focus with it on the G1.

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Guy

    This is an interesting discussion and could morph into a question of lens character and photographic style. I think comparing lens signatures is extremely helpful. If the 24 Lux looks like the 35 lux then they got it right. You have to assume a fast lens is designed to pull strong images out of weak light and to provide exceptional selective focus. Both known qualities of the 35 lux.

    The offer the alternative of the 24/3.8 which looks like the color,landscape,travel option. Minimal distortion ,strong color and resolution and small form.

    Not so clear how the 50 noctilux fits in ...except that its a standard bearer....a super fast version of the 50 1.4 asph....which I guess is reasonable positioning. But...it will be quite different than the original Noctilux signature . Personally I prefer the ability to dial in the level of sharpness...like the 50 pre asph . But thats what makes the system so great ..you have real alternatives.

    Roger this is what the 24 looked to me very luxy. LOL You know what i mean. It has a nice separation of smoothness that is a Lux. The 50 Nocti is nice and as Terry explained well behaved but frankly I like the 50 pre asph better and save a few grand in my pocket. LOL

    Keep that one under your hat. I would rather given the money factor put the cost savings to the 21mm or 24 1.4 than a Nocti. Given I like the look of the 50 pre-asph that much. I know you well enough that you would think the same as me on this one. Maybe you can get one from David to test out for a couple hours on the 24 . I don't think it is the 24mm elmarit which is so sharp even that it is too clinical and reason I sold mine. I liked the 21 elmarit and 28 cron for there smoothness
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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

    You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

    The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

    The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

    The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

    The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

    All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

    You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

    The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

    The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

    The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

    The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

    All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".
    Well said... I agree completely. Can I get an amen!?!

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    The bottom line at the end of my cycle with the M8 i went for lens character. Frankly that always won the day for me. Reason I loved the 28 cron and 50 pre asph.
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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    I agree Guy. The 28 cron and 50 lux pre apsh are the last two lenses I will ever sell. They both create such beautiful images and are fantastic for people / street shooting.
    Mike Hatam
    Sony A99, RX1, RX100

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

    You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

    The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

    The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

    The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

    The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

    All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".
    Sorry I'm late to this party. Somehow totally missed Terry's thread. Nice work, BTW.

    I can't wholehearted agree with you on this one, Roger. I think the 75 Cron and 50 ASPH actually have really exceptional rendering and great separation, especially the 75. Wide open, points of focus are sharp as a needle, yet the OOF areas are creamy (but not dreamy). The full disclosure on this one is that I am not a huge fan of lenses like the old Noct or the 50 pre-ASPH. I love sharp, and I love balanced. I don't really prefer glowing soft images, even of people. I'd rather start with the sharpest, most detailed rendering I can get and work from there. And, I don't want to stop down to f/2.8 to get that sharpness. I want it wide-open. This is where lenses like the 50 ASPH, 75 APO, and the new 21 and 24 Luxes come into play for me. I haven't gotten hold of a production-level new Noct yet, so I don't feel qualified to speak to its merits just yet.

    The 24 is a dream lens. All the best qualities of the old and and the new. As sister lenses, the 21 should be a spitting image of the 24, just a hair wider FOV and more DOF.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    And I can't resist....but won't name lens cap names....


    Attachment 13190
    Now, now, Terry. That wasn't even my M8! In my defense, I was trying out Tim Isaac's Thumbs Up CSEP-4 with twin cold shoes, on his M8.

    My M8.2 was floating around somewhere in the room with a 24 Lux on it.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: Toys I played with at PMA

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Now, now, Terry. That wasn't even my M8! In my defense, I was trying out Tim Isaac's Thumbs Up CSEP-4 with twin cold shoes, on his M8.

    My M8.2 was floating around somewhere in the room with a 24 Lux on it.

    David
    It was irresistable!!! I didn't name names!

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