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What the S? and why I still like it.

PeterA

Well-known member
If I was a studio shooter wanting the best glass and the best ergonomics in a 40 megapixel camera- the choice is S - a much better fashion/editorial type camera as far as ergonomics go than teh typical brick format factor from competitors. Teh S could do with maybe more megapixels for the landscape shooters who use it seriously for their work - but I'd argue that there were far better options out there for landscape work. If the S was bought for happy snaps - like I did - i found that the excellent form factor ( better than the other box choices I'd previously been shooting with) was still too large and too heavy for happy snaps and the ISO was limiting compared to pretty much any 35mm type camera out there...

Unfortunately there have been problems with autofocus in the S lens range - particularly the more expensive leaf shuttered versions - which pretty much destroys the crdiblity of the S system as a 'pro qulaity offer' in exactly the segment of the market this 'pro' camera was designed to make happy.

The S came out before the Sony A7r11 or the Nikon 810 - or the Canon similars - the megapixel count is against the S and the lens quality is beiong trashed by its poor performance and breakdown issues - whilst repairs take way too long and dont work.

It is a frustrating situation for all concerned. I reckon Leica will fix the issue and make good - it will just take too long for too many.

For the new to him or her buyer - the cost of mint S system bodies and lenses in the second hand market is decreasing markedly - a medium term thinker interested in the many positives of the S system (sans issues with autofocus) - would be wise to buy one of these super cheap biodies and maybe a couple of lenses in the second hand market.

If you are into the S system - I wouldn't sell now and if you are looking for outstanding image quality mated to a couple (or more) magnificent lenses as far as optics go - the S represents great value.
 

DB5

Member
Well I felt that way for a while, ie. Hold on, it will soon be fixed. But one year later and nothing has changed except for hot air and lip service and non action. Personally, I am done with Leica and my action plan is already laid out. Sell it and get out before it's too late and go with a brand that makes decent cameras to begin with and stands behind them with service and support that matches the price and treats their customers who've invested a fortune into their tools appropriately. I have being speaking with a lot of Hasselblad and Phase One users lately, and generally everyone is very happy with long term performance and support. Leica has no real interest in their customer and no system or network is set in place to help them when their dodgy products go wrong except for repairs with an inexcusable waiting list. It is my opinion that people need to stop making excuses for Leica, and until they stop, and start voting with their wallets nothing will ever change. I really don't want to seem overly negative but I've just had it up to my neck with them and I can not bare this expensive frustration any longer. It's got to the stage where everything I liked about it I don't even care about now anyway, there are far better systems out there. I'm out.
 

DB5

Member
Unless Leica shows some kind of immediate care in the fixing of if its issues, and some kind of proof of life for the system beyond lip service, I think it's best just to not go there with the S or cut losses and get out before it's abandoned entirely.

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170114_1650-ReaderComments-Hasselblad-Leica.html

"...I also heard that the Leica S is a basket case. The S line has not done well for Leica (OMG, really??!), and Leica has now tossed it in the lap of Sinar, and told them to use the guts of the S to make a digital back out of it. I have now heard this from three different, independent sources. The previous R&D resources related to the S line has been put on the SL, which is having moderate success. Although not flying off the shelves, it’s showing a pulse. So officially, the S system is not dead, but for all practical purposes, it is..."
 

Bernard

Member
That statement shows how the internet is a giant echo chamber. Somebody says something, it gets repeated a few other places, and spun a few times, and then it comes back around as confirmation!

Sinar and the S systems are under the same management now. That was officially announced at Photokina. No need for whispers, there was a press release, interviews, and so on. The product that he "heard from multiple sources" that Sinar was told to develop is called the Sinarback S 35|40. It's on the front page at Sinar.ch, and was also introduced at Photokina.

So, not exactly a secret. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Leica made a big deal about it.
 

DB5

Member
That statement shows how the internet is a giant echo chamber. Somebody says something, it gets repeated a few other places, and spun a few times, and then it comes back around as confirmation!

Sinar and the S systems are under the same management now. That was officially announced at Photokina. No need for whispers, there was a press release, interviews, and so on. The product that he "heard from multiple sources" that Sinar was told to develop is called the Sinarback S 35|40. It's on the front page at Sinar.ch, and was also introduced at Photokina.

So, not exactly a secret. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Leica made a big deal about it.
No, what you say means nothing, you need to read between the lines. Sure, it's common known fact and has been for some time that Leica owns Sinar and Sinar have developed an S based back to work with their systems but it is not common knowledge that Leica have suspended S R+D and it is something many have of us have feared and suspected for some time. Until Leica proves otherwise and deals with this mess I'm assuming this is further evidence of the demise of this system and take it as further warning of it's imminent end, sharing the same fate as the R system which was a very costly exercise for R owners.
 

Bernard

Member
DB5,

It's hard for me to put a lot of faith in "secret insider information" that consists mostly of stuff that was announced at Photokina. The rest is speculation.

I guess Leica could comment on this, but they would need to double their staffing levels if they were to comment on every Leica rumour on the internet. They did comment on S development at Photokina, and I'm sure the question will be raised again at the M event tomorrow.

As you know, Leica usually prefers to stay quiet until they have a product to show.
 

hasselbladfan

New member
Over the years, I have worked both with Hasselblad and Leica S. The 006 is a great camera. I love the files, the long battery and the action oriented shooting.

I cannot accept AF issues or bad service. We are in 2017 !

Therefore, I use only Hasselblad HC lenses (28-50 II-100-210) on my 006 and they work brilliantly. Every day. So, till Leica COMMUNICATES that they have a LT solution for the AF issue, this is my set-up. Worry-free.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Unless Leica shows some kind of immediate care in the fixing of if its issues, and some kind of proof of life for the system beyond lip service, I think it's best just to not go there with the S or cut losses and get out before it's abandoned entirely.

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170114_1650-ReaderComments-Hasselblad-Leica.html

"...I also heard that the Leica S is a basket case. The S line has not done well for Leica (OMG, really??!), and Leica has now tossed it in the lap of Sinar, and told them to use the guts of the S to make a digital back out of it. I have now heard this from three different, independent sources. The previous R&D resources related to the S line has been put on the SL, which is having moderate success. Although not flying off the shelves, it’s showing a pulse. So officially, the S system is not dead, but for all practical purposes, it is..."
He has never liked the S from the beginning. He claimed AF issues which were not really issues in real world shooting. He ignored to change his mind when Firmware changed it. He is not really using the system himself other than occasional testing. I am not sure he would be the source of information I would want to rely on in regards of the S system.
 

rickgrainger

New member
Well, I've loved the Leica S from afar ever since I put my eye up to the OVF of a S2 at Imaging USA many years ago.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) it has just been from afar, but I am getting closer to affording and investing in a medium format system.
But right now, I really would like to know if Leica has abandoned it much like their R series. If not, what are they doing about a permanent fix for the AF issues? Are they considering working with ProFoto, Elinchrome, and others about TTL compatibility? What, if anything, are they doing about their service woes in North America? Telephoto lenses longer than 180mm? Wide angle tilt-shift options?
Many questions.
I really want Leica to succeed. And I'm certain that they understand that professionals (who the camera was designed for), especially on location (also what the camera was designed for), need reliability 100% of the time. No exceptions. Yes, we carry back-ups, but at a wedding or similar event, failure can destroy a hard earned reputation quickly. Especially in this socially connected world. Am I asking for too much? Are my expectations unrealistic?

-Rick
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, I've loved the Leica S from afar ever since I put my eye up to the OVF of a S2 at Imaging USA many years ago.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) it has just been from afar, but I am getting closer to affording and investing in a medium format system.
But right now, I really would like to know if Leica has abandoned it much like their R series. If not, what are they doing about a permanent fix for the AF issues? Are they considering working with ProFoto, Elinchrome, and others about TTL compatibility? What, if anything, are they doing about their service woes in North America? Telephoto lenses longer than 180mm? Wide angle tilt-shift options?
Many questions.
I really want Leica to succeed. And I'm certain that they understand that professionals (who the camera was designed for), especially on location (also what the camera was designed for), need reliability 100% of the time. No exceptions. Yes, we carry back-ups, but at a wedding or similar event, failure can destroy a hard earned reputation quickly. Especially in this socially connected world. Am I asking for too much? Are my expectations unrealistic?

-Rick
Hi Rick, being a long time supporter:thumbs: and detractor:banghead: of the Leica S system, I can share my opinions and information as I know it to be as of now.

First off, the Leica USA service issues are not exclusive to the S system. They may be more pointed because S repairs like the AF issue have to be sent to Germany which magnifies the slow and increasingly unreliable service here in the US. I do not know if certain services needs for other cameras like the SL or M(240) also have to sent to Germany. Leica instituted a new service system in NJ, and it is a mess right now. Hopefully they will correct it quickly.

Current information I've been told regarding the S system AF fix is that they are working on it and have solved it for some lenses, with others to come. Other S photographers I know have said they have info that Leica has the solution for all lenses. Regardless of who is correct, it suggests that they are working on it rather than ignoring or abandoning it. If I were getting into the S system now, I'd wait to flesh out a lens system until the permanent solution is confirmed by Leica, and new or used S or CS lenses with the new AF parts are available and confirmed as such.

There have been unsubstantiated rumors that Leica is considering relegating the S to Sinar ... whatever that means? Sounds unlikely to me, but who knows what the heck is going on at Leica ... the only consistent and clear communication from them is marketing propaganda selling more and more new stuff.

IMO, it is doubtful (but not impossible) that Leica will work as TTL with strobes. I think it is more up to the strobe companies to implement those protocols, and they tend to stay with the more high-volume manufacturers such as Canon, Nikon, and now Sony. I'm not sure that any MFD offers TTL with strobes, except maybe the new Hasselblad Mirrorless which uses a Nikon TTL protocol hot-shoe. Personally, I've found no need or desire for TTL with strobes but that is a personal bias. The CS lenses for use with Profoto strobes is one reason I got into the S system in the first place.

Similarily, I would not hold my breath regarding a Leica W/A T/S lens. However, I believe there are T/S solutions via the various adapters available for the S camera. I also wouldn't predict a longer lens anytime soon ... and should one materialize I'd guess it would be so expensive as to cause a major medical event:shocked: Again, there are solutions via the Leica adapters ... Contax 350APO, 350s in V mount, or Hasselblad HC-300 for example ... BTW, any Hasselblad HC & HCD lens works in focal plane or leaf shutter mode on all the S cameras (which they do not even do on the Hasselblad cameras):facesmack:

The Pro level reliability you demand and expect is not unreasonable. As a new system the S was hard pressed on delivering that as it experienced teething pains ... as it matured it now has the AF issue and the pesky CCD sensor corrosion issues plaguing it.

Despite all that, I've soldiered on with the S because it is my favorite digital kit to date, and I can't afford to just abandon it at a huge loss only to buy something that is more expensive. I had a Contax 645 with a digital back that featured a very frustrating AF system then was abandoned by Kyocera, then a Mamiya645 with a Leaf Aptus back which was very problematic, and a series of Hasselblad H cameras from a H2D/22 to a H4D/60 and most of the lens, which "in general" delivered on the reliability aspect but didn't quite match the image qualitiesI loved from my Leica 35mm cameras ... then came the S and it was all there ... except this on-going horse crap with the AF lenses. Hopefully that'll be resolved and I can get on with it.

- Marc
 

baudolino

Active member
Last Summer, I was asked by the LF admins if I wanted to participate in the beta testing of new firmware for the S007. In the end, nothing came out of it, after I asked some questions and didn't get satisfactory answers... Anyway, toward the end of our conversation, which touched upon my wishes for new FW features (which I understand was relayed to the relevant people at Leica), I suggested that they should consider making the flash protocol in the Leica S compatible with Nikon (the same way Hasselblad has done with the X1D). After all, the physical layout of the hotshoe pins is the same for both Nikon and Leica - so the rest should be FW...? My idea was that rather than wait for Profoto to bring a Leica-compatible Air-TTL trigger (and I think Mark's much earlier comment about the hell freezing over before that happens is right on the spot), they could make the camera compatible with the existing Profoto trigger for Nikon (and all the other Godox etc. triggers). While that would probably make the camera incompatible with the SF-64, perhaps that unit also could be reprogrammed with new FW to make it work again. My grandma used to say that "if the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed will have to come to the mountain". Perhaps that applies to Leica and strobes also. PS: I never got any feedback re my suggestion. PS2: And of course, if they made the S compatible with Nikon flash, they could never again sell me a repackaged Metz flash for twice the price...so I am skeptical. But if Leica position the S system to wedding / fashion / location shooters, then lack of TTL flash with strobes is a distinct competitive disadvantage against systems for which TTL strobe triggers are available (Nikon, Canon, Sony). PS3: The PhaseOne XF camera body has an Air-TTL trigger built in - I'd love Leica to do the same (perhaps even drop the GPS unit...which I never use, as a result of which all my images are marked with zero zero coordinates somewhere in the ocean south of Ghana...). End of rant.
 

rickgrainger

New member
Hi Rick, being a long time supporter:thumbs: and detractor:banghead: of the Leica S system, I can share my opinions and information as I know it to be as of now.

First off, the Leica USA service issues are not exclusive to the S system. They may be more pointed because S repairs like the AF issue have to be sent to Germany which magnifies the slow and increasingly unreliable service here in the US. I do not know if certain services needs for other cameras like the SL or M(240) also have to sent to Germany. Leica instituted a new service system in NJ, and it is a mess right now. Hopefully they will correct it quickly.

Current information I've been told regarding the S system AF fix is that they are working on it and have solved it for some lenses, with others to come. Other S photographers I know have said they have info that Leica has the solution for all lenses. Regardless of who is correct, it suggests that they are working on it rather than ignoring or abandoning it. If I were getting into the S system now, I'd wait to flesh out a lens system until the permanent solution is confirmed by Leica, and new or used S or CS lenses with the new AF parts are available and confirmed as such.

There have been unsubstantiated rumors that Leica is considering relegating the S to Sinar ... whatever that means? Sounds unlikely to me, but who knows what the heck is going on at Leica ... the only consistent and clear communication from them is marketing propaganda selling more and more new stuff.

IMO, it is doubtful (but not impossible) that Leica will work as TTL with strobes. I think it is more up to the strobe companies to implement those protocols, and they tend to stay with the more high-volume manufacturers such as Canon, Nikon, and now Sony. I'm not sure that any MFD offers TTL with strobes, except maybe the new Hasselblad Mirrorless which uses a Nikon TTL protocol hot-shoe. Personally, I've found no need or desire for TTL with strobes but that is a personal bias. The CS lenses for use with Profoto strobes is one reason I got into the S system in the first place.

Similarily, I would not hold my breath regarding a Leica W/A T/S lens. However, I believe there are T/S solutions via the various adapters available for the S camera. I also wouldn't predict a longer lens anytime soon ... and should one materialize I'd guess it would be so expensive as to cause a major medical event:shocked: Again, there are solutions via the Leica adapters ... Contax 350APO, 350s in V mount, or Hasselblad HC-300 for example ... BTW, any Hasselblad HC & HCD lens works in focal plane or leaf shutter mode on all the S cameras (which they do not even do on the Hasselblad cameras):facesmack:

The Pro level reliability you demand and expect is not unreasonable. As a new system the S was hard pressed on delivering that as it experienced teething pains ... as it matured it now has the AF issue and the pesky CCD sensor corrosion issues plaguing it.

Despite all that, I've soldiered on with the S because it is my favorite digital kit to date, and I can't afford to just abandon it at a huge loss only to buy something that is more expensive. I had a Contax 645 with a digital back that featured a very frustrating AF system then was abandoned by Kyocera, then a Mamiya645 with a Leaf Aptus back which was very problematic, and a series of Hasselblad H cameras from a H2D/22 to a H4D/60 and most of the lens, which "in general" delivered on the reliability aspect but didn't quite match the image qualitiesI loved from my Leica 35mm cameras ... then came the S and it was all there ... except this on-going horse crap with the AF lenses. Hopefully that'll be resolved and I can get on with it.

- Marc
Marc,

Thank you very much. You have always been patient with my questions and I value your opinions greatly. I have family that I visit up in Frankenmuth. When I get up that way, I'd enjoy taking you to lunch or coffee.
 

rickgrainger

New member
Last Summer, I was asked by the LF admins if I wanted to participate in the beta testing of new firmware for the S007. In the end, nothing came out of it, after I asked some questions and didn't get satisfactory answers... Anyway, toward the end of our conversation, which touched upon my wishes for new FW features (which I understand was relayed to the relevant people at Leica), I suggested that they should consider making the flash protocol in the Leica S compatible with Nikon (the same way Hasselblad has done with the X1D). After all, the physical layout of the hotshoe pins is the same for both Nikon and Leica - so the rest should be FW...? My idea was that rather than wait for Profoto to bring a Leica-compatible Air-TTL trigger (and I think Mark's much earlier comment about the hell freezing over before that happens is right on the spot), they could make the camera compatible with the existing Profoto trigger for Nikon (and all the other Godox etc. triggers). While that would probably make the camera incompatible with the SF-64, perhaps that unit also could be reprogrammed with new FW to make it work again. My grandma used to say that "if the mountain will not come to Mohammed, then Mohammed will have to come to the mountain". Perhaps that applies to Leica and strobes also. PS: I never got any feedback re my suggestion. PS2: And of course, if they made the S compatible with Nikon flash, they could never again sell me a repackaged Metz flash for twice the price...so I am skeptical. But if Leica position the S system to wedding / fashion / location shooters, then lack of TTL flash with strobes is a distinct competitive disadvantage against systems for which TTL strobe triggers are available (Nikon, Canon, Sony). PS3: The PhaseOne XF camera body has an Air-TTL trigger built in - I'd love Leica to do the same (perhaps even drop the GPS unit...which I never use, as a result of which all my images are marked with zero zero coordinates somewhere in the ocean south of Ghana...). End of rant.
I agree 100%! It would be fantastic if Leica would/could adopt the Nikon iTTL flash protocol. That would fill in a lot of gaps. 😊
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi Rick, being a long time supporter:thumbs: and detractor:banghead: of the Leica S system, I can share my opinions and information as I know it to be as of now.

First off, the Leica USA service issues are not exclusive to the S system. They may be more pointed because S repairs like the AF issue have to be sent to Germany which magnifies the slow and increasingly unreliable service here in the US. I do not know if certain services needs for other cameras like the SL or M(240) also have to sent to Germany. Leica instituted a new service system in NJ, and it is a mess right now. Hopefully they will correct it quickly.

Current information I've been told regarding the S system AF fix is that they are working on it and have solved it for some lenses, with others to come. Other S photographers I know have said they have info that Leica has the solution for all lenses. Regardless of who is correct, it suggests that they are working on it rather than ignoring or abandoning it. If I were getting into the S system now, I'd wait to flesh out a lens system until the permanent solution is confirmed by Leica, and new or used S or CS lenses with the new AF parts are available and confirmed as such.

There have been unsubstantiated rumors that Leica is considering relegating the S to Sinar ... whatever that means? Sounds unlikely to me, but who knows what the heck is going on at Leica ... the only consistent and clear communication from them is marketing propaganda selling more and more new stuff.

IMO, it is doubtful (but not impossible) that Leica will work as TTL with strobes. I think it is more up to the strobe companies to implement those protocols, and they tend to stay with the more high-volume manufacturers such as Canon, Nikon, and now Sony. I'm not sure that any MFD offers TTL with strobes, except maybe the new Hasselblad Mirrorless which uses a Nikon TTL protocol hot-shoe. Personally, I've found no need or desire for TTL with strobes but that is a personal bias. The CS lenses for use with Profoto strobes is one reason I got into the S system in the first place.

Similarily, I would not hold my breath regarding a Leica W/A T/S lens. However, I believe there are T/S solutions via the various adapters available for the S camera. I also wouldn't predict a longer lens anytime soon ... and should one materialize I'd guess it would be so expensive as to cause a major medical event:shocked: Again, there are solutions via the Leica adapters ... Contax 350APO, 350s in V mount, or Hasselblad HC-300 for example ... BTW, any Hasselblad HC & HCD lens works in focal plane or leaf shutter mode on all the S cameras (which they do not even do on the Hasselblad cameras):facesmack:

The Pro level reliability you demand and expect is not unreasonable. As a new system the S was hard pressed on delivering that as it experienced teething pains ... as it matured it now has the AF issue and the pesky CCD sensor corrosion issues plaguing it.

Despite all that, I've soldiered on with the S because it is my favorite digital kit to date, and I can't afford to just abandon it at a huge loss only to buy something that is more expensive. I had a Contax 645 with a digital back that featured a very frustrating AF system then was abandoned by Kyocera, then a Mamiya645 with a Leaf Aptus back which was very problematic, and a series of Hasselblad H cameras from a H2D/22 to a H4D/60 and most of the lens, which "in general" delivered on the reliability aspect but didn't quite match the image qualitiesI loved from my Leica 35mm cameras ... then came the S and it was all there ... except this on-going horse crap with the AF lenses. Hopefully that'll be resolved and I can get on with it.

- Marc
Marc,

From what I've been told recently in my discussions with them, apparently they are attempting/planning to eventually have the capacity to repair some aspects of the S system in N.J., so everything doesn't have to be shipped back to the mother country. This includes expanding the facility and bringing in the appropriate equipment. When, if and how long this will be, I don't know but it sounded like it was in the more immediate plans.

Dave (D&A)
 

atanabe

Member
Time to revisit this thread, yes, I originally posted about the reasons for keeping the S, even with it's antiquated 37.5 mpx resolution and lenses that fail. Since that time I have been able to actually use both the Hasselblad X1D and FujiFilm GFX against the old S2. Yes, these mirrorless wonders are 50 mpx resolution but when you crop them from the native 4:3 format to 3:2 the difference shrinks 45 vs 37.5 mpx. So my S2 came out in 2010 seven years or 100 human years it seems but the image quality at low ISO still holds it's own against the two newcomers. The form factor, advantage to Hasselblad, small sexy light, but on the other hand, mirrorless was supposed to be that, then why is the GFX so large? The weight difference between the S2 + 30-90 zoom and GFX + 32-64 zoom favors the GFX by 27% weight savings but the physical size goes to the S2. The user experience, your results may vary, but I find the OVF superior over EVFs at this point in time. While the EVFs provide focus peaking and magnification, magnifying fuzzy pixels just looks like larger fuzzy pixels. I have grown up with OVFs and the S2 has the best one that I have used, I can nail focus every time. There is no second guessing if I think it is fuzzy or just the pixel represents it as fuzzy, sharp is sharp.

Yes, I was prepared to make the switch to a new mirrorless MF system and it boiled down to living with each system and making it work into my workflow. I was so convinced that I would like one or the other mirrorless MF systems that I already had my S system cleaned and boxed up ready to trade in. Yes, that serious. I tried the X1D at a Hasselblad demo day in SF and just could not warm up to the EVF and blackout of the display. The battery life was not very good, when you are used to charging a battery and going for a couple of weeks before charging, to looking for a recharger every hour or so. I really wanted to like it, the form factor was ideal but it just did not perform like I believed it should. On to the next system, the GFX, that I rented with the 32-64, I had money invested in this to the tune of $400 but better spent on a rental than worrying about pedaling it after I bought it. Right out of the box, the size equaled the S2, no advantage there, the EVF was better than the X1D but still no where near the experience with a good OVF. Well you can adapt a whole room full of lenses onto this body but why would I want to run a Ferrari on kerosine? Lenses designed for 35mm have a smaller image circle and you are never going to get the best edge to edge performance from those lenses. So you are stuck with large MF glass for the best image quality, that is the law, the law of physics. Out goes the mirrorless advantage, just like it is with the Sony and the G Master lenses. Good glass = big size.

Back to the S2, yes that S2, the CCD 37.5 mpx artifact that does not image well beyond ISO 640. When shooting at base ISO with the native lenses, there is no more pure optical joy. I unboxed my lenses and have solidified my commitment to the system, I even added a new addition to the mix. Prices of the lenses are low now, the AF issue is, I believe, fixed and if it needs a new motor it can be CLA'd and warranted for an additional year for $400. Until the next generation comes around I will be happily shooting with my antique.

My experience, my opinion, as I said earlier, your results may vary.
 

tjv

Active member
Would you think about going for an S 007 at this point (if you're happy with the resolution?) I imagine an "008" isn't too far away, so prices may start falling soon.

Time to revisit this thread, yes, I originally posted about the reasons for keeping the S, even with it's antiquated 37.5 mpx resolution and lenses that fail. Since that time I have been able to actually use both the Hasselblad X1D and FujiFilm GFX against the old S2. Yes, these mirrorless wonders are 50 mpx resolution but when you crop them from the native 4:3 format to 3:2 the difference shrinks 45 vs 37.5 mpx. So my S2 came out in 2010 seven years or 100 human years it seems but the image quality at low ISO still holds it's own against the two newcomers. The form factor, advantage to Hasselblad, small sexy light, but on the other hand, mirrorless was supposed to be that, then why is the GFX so large? The weight difference between the S2 + 30-90 zoom and GFX + 32-64 zoom favors the GFX by 27% weight savings but the physical size goes to the S2. The user experience, your results may vary, but I find the OVF superior over EVFs at this point in time. While the EVFs provide focus peaking and magnification, magnifying fuzzy pixels just looks like larger fuzzy pixels. I have grown up with OVFs and the S2 has the best one that I have used, I can nail focus every time. There is no second guessing if I think it is fuzzy or just the pixel represents it as fuzzy, sharp is sharp.

Yes, I was prepared to make the switch to a new mirrorless MF system and it boiled down to living with each system and making it work into my workflow. I was so convinced that I would like one or the other mirrorless MF systems that I already had my S system cleaned and boxed up ready to trade in. Yes, that serious. I tried the X1D at a Hasselblad demo day in SF and just could not warm up to the EVF and blackout of the display. The battery life was not very good, when you are used to charging a battery and going for a couple of weeks before charging, to looking for a recharger every hour or so. I really wanted to like it, the form factor was ideal but it just did not perform like I believed it should. On to the next system, the GFX, that I rented with the 32-64, I had money invested in this to the tune of $400 but better spent on a rental than worrying about pedaling it after I bought it. Right out of the box, the size equaled the S2, no advantage there, the EVF was better than the X1D but still no where near the experience with a good OVF. Well you can adapt a whole room full of lenses onto this body but why would I want to run a Ferrari on kerosine? Lenses designed for 35mm have a smaller image circle and you are never going to get the best edge to edge performance from those lenses. So you are stuck with large MF glass for the best image quality, that is the law, the law of physics. Out goes the mirrorless advantage, just like it is with the Sony and the G Master lenses. Good glass = big size.

Back to the S2, yes that S2, the CCD 37.5 mpx artifact that does not image well beyond ISO 640. When shooting at base ISO with the native lenses, there is no more pure optical joy. I unboxed my lenses and have solidified my commitment to the system, I even added a new addition to the mix. Prices of the lenses are low now, the AF issue is, I believe, fixed and if it needs a new motor it can be CLA'd and warranted for an additional year for $400. Until the next generation comes around I will be happily shooting with my antique.

My experience, my opinion, as I said earlier, your results may vary.
 

atanabe

Member
Would you think about going for an S 007 at this point (if you're happy with the resolution?) I imagine an "008" isn't too far away, so prices may start falling soon.
I would have to wait to see what the 008 has to offer before making a decision. Prices have already fallen to below $10k for used examples.
 

relms

New member
I would have to wait to see what the 008 has to offer before making a decision. Prices have already fallen to below $10k for used examples.
The S007 is an incredible buy right now at under $10K. I bought one to use and enjoy while waiting for the elusive 008, whose announcement, if it comes, could be a year away, plus another year before they show up at dealers. In the meantime I have the pleasure of shooting with one of the best cameras available at any price.
 
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