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Leica M10 coming on Thursday 1-19-17??

ptomsu

Workshop Member
First color sensor M I've been interested in since the M9.

Comparisons to other cameras is of little interest because none of them are rangefinders.

Main draws for me in order of importance are the reduced thickness (back to M film camera like M7), bigger rangefinder (0.72 like standard film Ms), external ISO dial, and elimination of the video.

Interestingly, Leica seems to have returned to the previous M naming convention.

Looks good so far.

:thumbs:


- Marc
I welcome all the changes with one exception - LACK OF VIDEO

IMHO the one but biggest no go for this camera.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
How odd, Peter - to me this is its biggest attraction - no f.....g video - Hurrah! :clap:
Nowadays I am using my cameras with 60% photo and 40% video. Has pretty much changed over the past 2 years.

Hence a camera for more than 6k without video is pretty much a no go for me.

But I kind of understand Leica's philosophy - buy a M10 for perfect rangefinder photography and a SL if you want video as well. This way they can easily sell more - and this is their biggest motivation.

I am sorry that at my age I am bringing most things just to the point :cool:
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...buy a M10 for perfect rangefinder photography and a SL if you want video as well. This way they can easily sell more - and this is their biggest motivation. ...
Of course they want to sell more... what manufacturer doesn't? That's a red herring.

I agree with the rest. Makes perfect sense. The SL is the 'feature wagon' where the M is a less versatile, more specific photographic tool. Trying to bend Ms into being the do-everything machines they can never be is a waste of time IMO.

G
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Of course they want to sell more... what manufacturer doesn't? That's a red herring.

I agree with the rest. Makes perfect sense. The SL is the 'feature wagon' where the M is a less versatile, more specific photographic tool. Trying to bend Ms into being the do-everything machines they can never be is a waste of time IMO.

G
Only thing is that other vendors seem to be able doing this perfectly ......

And they were close with the M240. No-one can tell me they could not keep at least basic video like it was in the M240 and still get the size of the M10 ...

I was really waiting and hoping for this camera.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
And they were close with the M240. No-one can tell me they could not keep at least basic video like it was in the M240 and still get the size of the M10 ...
It is all about "concepts".

Like the M without a LCD.

Despite sporting a LCD the M10 is thinner.

Is that not revolutionary?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
It is all about "concepts".

Like the M without a LCD.

Despite sporting a LCD the M10 is thinner.

Is that not revolutionary?
Well if you like this is revolutionary. But shutting down a function that could have been realized just to be able to call it "pure" does not pay the bill, certainly not.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I didn't liked the M240 but this one is sexy. I think the most welcome upgrade here is the bigger magnification and improved rangefinder. After much observation, the ISO dial isn't that much disturbing, looks like a winner.

Of course video crippling isn't very cool and frustration can be understandable. Leica lenses are superb in video and some creatives who want to invest one big time in a "combo" can't with this camera (but they can buy the M240).

But overall, looks like a very nice and discrete camera.

Oh !! and 1/8000 shutter would have been a nice addition, especially at this price, with the super fast lenses leica produce and being in 2017.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Seems like the true successor to the M9 that many of us wanted 4 years ago. Good job Leica in getting back to the basis and getting the "pop" back into the images that was missing in the M240 without a lot of PP.
 

D&A

Well-known member
Seems like the true successor to the M9 that many of us wanted 4 years ago. Good job Leica in getting back to the basis and getting the "pop" back into the images that was missing in the M240 without a lot of PP.
I hope that's true as I value the color output of the M9. What concerns me is some of the M10 images posted have some of the traits I've seen with the M240, especially with regards to orangey skin tones.

Have a look at the sample image #3 from the link below. Yes, I realize the color of the umbrellas and surrounding fruit contribute to some of this.

Leica M10 sample image gallery - Amateur Photographer

Dave (D&A)
 
At first, when it was just rumors of the M10 spec, I was quite underwhelmed by it. But then it was published and the information got specific. I went on to read Jono's piece on testing this camera and I thought it was quite interesting really.

Now I've been thinking about it some more as hours and day has passed and I think they actually did a very nice job. There are lots of small & not so small improvements all over the camera. And as with all previous generations, things will only improve with the first firmware upgrades rolling out.

A worthy successor in the long line of M's.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I wonder if heat dissipation drove the omission of this feature.
For 4k video pretty sure, but I would be happy with 1k video and this is possible in much smaller and plastic housed cameras. And anyway, if it needed to be 1mm thicker I would not have complained either and rather have a much more capable camera than just something beautiful that is almost completely outdated.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
At first, when it was just rumors of the M10 spec, I was quite underwhelmed by it. But then it was published and the information got specific. I went on to read Jono's piece on testing this camera and I thought it was quite interesting really.

Now I've been thinking about it some more as hours and day has passed and I think they actually did a very nice job. There are lots of small & not so small improvements all over the camera. And as with all previous generations, things will only improve with the first firmware upgrades rolling out.

A worthy successor in the long line of M's.
This is always in the eye of the observer :D
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Only thing is that other vendors seem to be able doing this perfectly ......

And they were close with the M240. No-one can tell me they could not keep at least basic video like it was in the M240 and still get the size of the M10 ...

I was really waiting and hoping for this camera.
I think they were really responding to a lot of user feedback ... From reading the various Leica lists, one of the most commonly voiced complaints about the M/M-P typ 240 was: "I don't want damn video in my M ... Waste of money, I never use it!" The other one was: "I want the camera to be the same size as my film M!" Of course, there's another faction of users who wanted to dump the OVF and use an EVF like the Q, another that wanted video capture, others (like me) who prefer the LCD-less M-D with no video or Live View options whatever, etc.

For some, the M10 will not be their M. For others it will. What's a manufacturer to do?

(Since I already have the SL and its video capture capabilities are far far more sophisticated than my M-P or my actual experience requires, or that I use!, having no video in the M10 is of no concern to me at all. If I want to do video, I'll just pick up the SL and do it.)

G
 

scott kirkpatrick

Well-known member
I think they were really responding to a lot of user feedback ... From reading the various Leica lists, one of the most commonly voiced complaints about the M/M-P typ 240 was: "I don't want damn video in my M ... Waste of money, I never use it!" The other one was: "I want the camera to be the same size as my film M!" Of course, there's another faction of users who wanted to dump the OVF and use an EVF like the Q, another that wanted video capture, others (like me) who prefer the LCD-less M-D with no video or Live View options whatever, etc.

For some, the M10 will not be their M. For others it will. What's a manufacturer to do?

(Since I already have the SL and its video capture capabilities are far far more sophisticated than my M-P or my actual experience requires, or that I use!, having no video in the M10 is of no concern to me at all. If I want to do video, I'll just pick up the SL and do it.)

G
I -- and other users on this site -- have video capability on my Olympus M-5ii with spectacular in body image stabilization, and on my Fuji X-Pro2 with optical image stabilization in at least some lenses and 4K resolution, so why would I struggle to get that from an M? The SL also does quite capable video, although my favorite lenses are not the stabilized SL zooms, and derives its 4K with a compressed tone curve so that real 10 bit per color data is possible with an external recorder. The SL is taking its video signal from an area which is slightly less than APS-C in size on the chip, so it does not have to do any oversampling, which might be an advantage.

On the other hand, I do appreciate the availability of pretty good Live View support (the Leica 2 MPx viewfinder is comparable to what Fuji and Olympus vII offer), and the imaging chip seems to show the benefits of being a year newer than what is in the Q and SL. I am interested enough to go take a look through the new viewfinder with my glasses on, but otherwise not in a hurry.

scott
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Nostalgia with a veneer of some digital polish.

Some will swoon over it; others will wish they could afford it, while others will see it for what it is.

Good to have choices and better still to create a want when it might not be needed.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I think they were really responding to a lot of user feedback ... From reading the various Leica lists, one of the most commonly voiced complaints about the M/M-P typ 240 was: "I don't want damn video in my M ... Waste of money, I never use it!" The other one was: "I want the camera to be the same size as my film M!" Of course, there's another faction of users who wanted to dump the OVF and use an EVF like the Q, another that wanted video capture, others (like me) who prefer the LCD-less M-D with no video or Live View options whatever, etc.

For some, the M10 will not be their M. For others it will. What's a manufacturer to do?

(Since I already have the SL and its video capture capabilities are far far more sophisticated than my M-P or my actual experience requires, or that I use!, having no video in the M10 is of no concern to me at all. If I want to do video, I'll just pick up the SL and do it.)

G
Godfrey,

this is exactly what I was saying! If you have the SL and the M10 you would be almost fine - problem solved.
But I still do not own the SL and would have liked a M10 that at least supported basic 1k video, just for the occasions I need it.
A solution could have been (or maybe still is) that there will be another type of M10 that supports this function - but again if this is coming, it will be not before 1 or 2 years later.

Slowly I am getting tired of waiting ....
Peter
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I -- and other users on this site -- have video capability on my Olympus M-5ii with spectacular in body image stabilization, and on my Fuji X-Pro2 with optical image stabilization in at least some lenses and 4K resolution, so why would I struggle to get that from an M? The SL also does quite capable video, although my favorite lenses are not the stabilized SL zooms, and derives its 4K with a compressed tone curve so that real 10 bit per color data is possible with an external recorder. The SL is taking its video signal from an area which is slightly less than APS-C in size on the chip, so it does not have to do any oversampling, which might be an advantage.

On the other hand, I do appreciate the availability of pretty good Live View support (the Leica 2 MPx viewfinder is comparable to what Fuji and Olympus vII offer), and the imaging chip seems to show the benefits of being a year newer than what is in the Q and SL. I am interested enough to go take a look through the new viewfinder with my glasses on, but otherwise not in a hurry.

scott
Scott,

I also own other cameras that support video in a great way (Fuji XT2), but my frustration comes from the fact that if I want to carry ONLY the M10, I cannot do video at all and need to use my iPhone then. And this from such an expensive camera!

Peter
 
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