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M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi Jurgen,

I agree: the SL system is not for those looking for a "smaller or lighter than DSLR" system, not if you're intent on buying into the SL lenses. Used with selected M or R lenses, the kit can be a bit smaller and lighter than a DSLR system, but that supposes that autofocus isn't important to you and you're all right with using mount adapters. IMO, the SL system should always be considered as a modern Leica replacement for their R system SLRs, that's all, not as a replacement or competitor to the M system at all. The fact that the SL body is a good bit smaller than most DSLR bodies of similar grade and quality is the significant gain, but top-notch, pro-grade, fast zoom lenses are always pretty big and heavy. (Note that the Leica SLRs were never known as being particularly compact or light, aside from maybe the R4.) I think, from what I've seen, that the upcoming Summicron-SL prime lenses will be reasonably compact, in line with other SLR system primes of similar focal length.

The M system wins out if you're looking for more compact, lighter weight body and lenses, and presumes that the usual range from 28 to 135 mm with manual focus is what you*are after.

Regards lenses, pretty much any Leica lens is a very fine performer. Elmars are usually f/3.5 to f/4; Elmarits are usually f/2.8; Summarits are usually about f/2.4-2.5; Summicrons are usually f/2; and Summilux are usually f/1.4. Prices scale with lens speed in each of the focal length brackets, as does weight and size. You can't really go wrong with a Summicron 50 and 28. You might want to go faster or slower depending on your budget and other desires. But basically, none of them are disappointing in my experience.

And then there's the Leica lens addicts' fascination with particular series of lenses ... I'm not entirely immune either. :toocool:

Right now, my circa 1972 Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2 is my all time favorite 35mm lens, and I'm delighted with the current Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4. I had a Summilux-M 75/1.4 some years ago and found it rather heavy and awkward; I understand the APO Summicron-M 75 is superb, but I decided on "light weight comes first." The next lens I get for my M will be a Summicron 50, and likely a current series standard one, because I know that lens very well having had an excellent experience with the previous series. (Current series is different only in very minor ways, including the six bit code.)

Have fun making your decisions! :)

G
 

Magic

New member
Hi Godfrey,

thank you very much for your reply and for resolving my confusion about the different lense-types/variations.

Now I just need to plan a bank robbery to fund the purchase :grin:.

Greetings, Jurgen
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi Godfrey,

thank you very much for your reply and for resolving my confusion about the different lense-types/variations.

Now I just need to plan a bank robbery to fund the purchase :grin:.

Greetings, Jurgen
That's the standard problem. :grin:

G
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
This was a fun thread to read...very civil. I too, am gently getting back into Leica after selling my beautiful M3 and 50 Cron, M6ttl, and M9 and 35mm Cron. Over time I've tried different formats and gear, but keep coming back to Leica for the pure joy of being inspired. I played with a Leica Q and was amazed at the leaf shutter, fast AF and rendering of that 28mm Summilux. The MF tab was perfect and smooth like butter and the magnification and peaking just works! I just picked up a chrome MP with a 50 Lux (pre ASPH) for FF film shooting, but if Leica ever produced a weather sealed Q2 with a AF 50 mm Lux, it would be most likely there best selling camera ever, imo. The M10 looks interesting too... Hmm, the key word is "gently".
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Just a little update. After much thinking and analyzing, I decided that obtaining the SL90-280 zoom lens is probably the first priority acquisition in my gear realignment so I've set the focus of my sales and equipment trade on that for the moment. The performance and quality of this lens probably outstrips all my other long R lenses ... I'd use it more due to the image stabilization too.

After that, it's a bigger bit of decision making to come now that Hasselblad has pre-announced they're working on a 22mm lens for the X1D. Damn them. :shocked: I wonder how much I can get for the Nikon Coolscan 9000 and the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses ... sigh. :shocked:

G
 
After that, it's a bigger bit of decision making to come now that Hasselblad has pre-announced they're working on a 22mm lens for the X1D. Damn them. :shocked: I wonder how much I can get for the Nikon Coolscan 9000 and the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses ... sigh. :shocked:

G
What Hasselblad lenses are you going to sell? I'm looking for a wide angle (≤30mm) for my Contax.

Cheers, Joe
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
What Hasselblad lenses are you going to sell? I'm looking for a wide angle (≤30mm) for my Contax.

Cheers, Joe
Well, there are no Hasselblad V system lenses shorter than the 38mm on the SWC, other than the fisheye, that I know of. 38mm on 6x6 format is equivalent to about a 16mm on a square-crop 35mm format camera. I have Distagon 50mm f/4, Planar 80mm f/2.8, Makro-Planar 120mm f/4, and Sonnar 150mm f/4 lense for the 500CM, and the SWC. I've not made any decisions yet, but I suspect that if I sell one, I'll sell them all ... other than the SWC.

The SWC is NOT going to be sold. :)

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
To follow up again: The first part of my big equipment juggle was completed yesterday.

I negotiated a trade and purchase sending a bundle of "no longer used" Leica bodies and lenses to my dealer buddy in exchange for a new-DEMO Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm and a used-MINT Summicron-M 50mm. My end goal is to have the SL, the Leicaflex SL, the M-D, and the M4-2 bodies with the two SL zooms, a small kit of R lenses, and a small kit of M lenses. Leica film and digital, R/SL and M, the mainstay of my shooting needs. :D

After this, I will divest myself of Pentax, Nikon, and Olympus gear, the big film scanner, and see where that leaves the bank balance. If there's enough in the pot, I order the X1D body and wait for the 22 and 120 Macro lenses. If I need to sell off more to fund those, the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses go. The goal is to end up with the X1D + 22mm + 120 Macro and the SWC in addition to the Leica kit. (The X1D plus the 120 Macro should make an amazing 6x6 film scanner...)

I'll then have probably a dozen high-quality camera bags to sell and/or give away... My equipment closet will look amazingly empty at that point. :ROTFL:

"I detect a madness to this method..."
 

Magic

New member
Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense" :grin:
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense" :grin:
Great! I hope you enjoy it. You can't go wrong with the 'Lux 50mm. :D That's always a great lens.

G
 

magosak

Member
I am also in Abu Dhabi (for now) and I checked the prices in Dubai but they were on the high side. I am on a waiting list for M10. I am getting mine from the UK.

I have a silver 50 Summilux that I will be selling ;)

Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense" :grin:
 

Magic

New member
Welcome to the sandpit - living in the UAE is anything but cheap. I hope your shipment arrives safe and sound (I am living here for 12 years....). I had reserved a black M10 and a black Summilux 50. They got stocks today but not as much as they had hoped for and so I have to wait another 2 weeks (they said). :angry:
 

sjg284

Member
So how do we feel on the M10 ergonomics versus M240 (and previous M8/M9) body styles?

On the M240 (and M8/M9) I found the thumbs-up to be absolutely a must.
I also dabbled with grips, 50% of the time on M8/M9 and pretty much 100% of time on M240.

Especially with medium length/weight lenses like 50/1.4 ASPH Summilux.. I found the front-weighted balance to require these grip aids.

So now the M10 is lighter (just barely), thinner (noticeably?) and with a slightly different thumb-friendly bump in the rear...

Do M10 users find their grip accessory use to be any different?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
So how do we feel on the M10 ergonomics versus M240 (and previous M8/M9) body styles?

On the M240 (and M8/M9) I found the thumbs-up to be absolutely a must.
I also dabbled with grips, 50% of the time on M8/M9 and pretty much 100% of time on M240.

Especially with medium length/weight lenses like 50/1.4 ASPH Summilux.. I found the front-weighted balance to require these grip aids.

So now the M10 is lighter (just barely), thinner (noticeably?) and with a slightly different thumb-friendly bump in the rear...

Do M10 users find their grip accessory use to be any different?
As I wrote in the first post on this thread, the M10 felt impressively slimmer in my hand than the M-P did but not significantly thinner in feel compared to the M-D.

I've never gotten comfortable with the Thumbs Up or Thumbie, ended up not using them when I had them, and used a half case on both the M9 and M-P to improve the fit for my hands. That would likely still be the case with the M10 for me, were I to buy one.

The issue for me is that all of the M models with an LCD and the array of buttons and controls have insufficient gripping space for my hands and places to rest my fingers. The M-D is the exception that proves this ... I've not felt the need for either a half-case or thumbs up device to improve my grip with the M-D because it has a lot of body real estate for my hands. It's just like using my M4-2 in my hands ... albeit that I tend to put the M4-2 into a half-case to make it a little thicker and easier to grip.

I'll be interested in other user responses who do own the M10 and how they feel about it.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
To follow up again: The first part of my big equipment juggle was completed yesterday.

I negotiated a trade and purchase sending a bundle of "no longer used" Leica bodies and lenses to my dealer buddy in exchange for a new-DEMO Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm and a used-MINT Summicron-M 50mm. My end goal is to have the SL, the Leicaflex SL, the M-D, and the M4-2 bodies with the two SL zooms, a small kit of R lenses, and a small kit of M lenses. Leica film and digital, R/SL and M, the mainstay of my shooting needs. :D

After this, I will divest myself of Pentax, Nikon, and Olympus gear, the big film scanner, and see where that leaves the bank balance. If there's enough in the pot, I order the X1D body and wait for the 22 and 120 Macro lenses. If I need to sell off more to fund those, the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses go. The goal is to end up with the X1D + 22mm + 120 Macro and the SWC in addition to the Leica kit. (The X1D plus the 120 Macro should make an amazing 6x6 film scanner...)

I'll then have probably a dozen high-quality camera bags to sell and/or give away... My equipment closet will look amazingly empty at that point. :ROTFL:

"I detect a madness to this method..."
Update X+1:

I spend a fun morning yesterday with the Leica SL photographing my Nikon gear for sale. I decided to hold back from listing my 1961 plain-prism F and the 55 Macro for the moment ... Nostalgia overwhelmed me.

The SL with the two zooms make for an excellent tabletop system, btw. I ran the camera on a tripod using the Leica SL app on my iPad Pro, using my home WiFi to connect them: That made it super easy to set up each item's staging and set focus without having to run behind the camera each time. Of course, being forgetful, I made the error of using AutoWB so I had to white balance each frame—*always* lock the white balance when doing tabletop work, it just makes it so much easier to make a complete set of photos with consistent color. The live display of the subject and bright, easy to see DOF preview is extremely helpful to be sure that you've got what you want, in proper focus, and exposed just right. The WiFi remote release eliminates any possibility of lending any camera movement to the setup rig (the one photo that does have a tiny bit is the only one I released with the camera's shutter release button and a 2sec self timer).

The two bodies—Nikon D750 and Nikon F6—listed on Ebay last night at 7:30 and 8:00. Both now have bids on them, it'll be fun to see how their prices run up on the way to Sunday evening's auction close. I've got nine lenses to list over the next few days (I don't like to have more than two/three closing on the same evening, to keep the shipping craziness manageable.)

It's happening. The Leica excess and Pentax gear gone. Once the Nikon bits are gone, I go to work on the Olympus stuff, and some miscellaneous excess Polaroid and other things. The closets will be so much roomier!

onwards!
G
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I did some similar things , after owning the SL for about a year I sold the df and (nearly) all Nikon lenses I still had.
Using mainly cameras from one brand makes life easier because menues have many similarities and also the image output is close in regards of color and post processing needs.
I still own way too much gear.
 

scott kirkpatrick

Well-known member
Update X+1:

I spend a fun morning yesterday with the Leica SL photographing my Nikon gear for sale. I decided to hold back from listing my 1961 plain-prism F and the 55 Macro for the moment ... Nostalgia overwhelmed me.
....
onwards!
G
I totally understand the feeling. I left a Nikon F, 55 macro and 105/2.5 in a friend's garage when we left the country around 2000. They were what got me started in the 1960s. A divorce and various vicissitudes (not mine) mean that they are no longer to be found. I can still recall the "ka-whomp" of the F shutter when shooting from the audience seats during a quiet rehearsal.

scott
 
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