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Thread: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

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    M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I was in Leica Store - San Francisco yesterday to see the M10 in person. I had my M-D typ 262 with me to compare key differences.

    The M10 is impressively slimmer in feel than the M-P but not so much slimmer in the hand compared to the M-D. A little bit, yes. The protrusion of the control bits and the LCD on the M-D is a little less intrusive than on the M-P but at least to my hands it has nowhere near the handling comfort of the M-D. Such is the price of having the display and buttons, I guess. It's not without merit but I still like the feel of the M-D more.

    The viewfinder on the M10, however, is a revelation. Finally an M viewfinder that I can see all the frame lines from 28mm to 135 easily and comfortably, with my glasses on! The focusing patch is nicely a bit larger due to the magnification, making it easier to focus, and I can for the very first time see something outside of the 28mm frames. Frankly, when Leica introduces an "M-D10" model, it will be very difficult to resist it for this viewfinder alone.

    I didn't spend too much time looking at the M10 ... the viewfinder difference was my biggest interest ... but the new, simpler menu structure and buttons are nice, the simplified on/off switch is much more to my liking than the off/single/continuous/self switch on the older models, and the M10's ISO dial is welcome but would take a little getting used to. I prefer the M-D's rear-mounted thumb dial for ISO setting, it works more ergonomically for my fingers, but of course is impossible with a big LCD on the back of the camera. I didn't make any exposures with the camera (no card in it...) but fired the shutter a few times: sounds almost identical to the M-D to my ears.

    That's about it ... I liked the M10 very much, but will wait for Leica to produce an M-D version of it. I want that version of the optical viewfinder, but won't give up the handling feel and utter simplicity of the M-D for it.

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I was in Leica Store - San Francisco yesterday to see the M10 in person. I had my M-D typ 262 with me to compare key differences.

    The M10 is impressively slimmer in feel than the M-P but not so much slimmer in the hand compared to the M-D. A little bit, yes. The protrusion of the control bits and the LCD on the M-D is a little less intrusive than on the M-P but at least to my hands it has nowhere near the handling comfort of the M-D. Such is the price of having the display and buttons, I guess. It's not without merit but I still like the feel of the M-D more.

    The viewfinder on the M10, however, is a revelation. Finally an M viewfinder that I can see all the frame lines from 28mm to 135 easily and comfortably, with my glasses on! The focusing patch is nicely a bit larger due to the magnification, making it easier to focus, and I can for the very first time see something outside of the 28mm frames. Frankly, when Leica introduces an "M-D10" model, it will be very difficult to resist it for this viewfinder alone.

    I didn't spend too much time looking at the M10 ... the viewfinder difference was my biggest interest ... but the new, simpler menu structure and buttons are nice, the simplified on/off switch is much more to my liking than the off/single/continuous/self switch on the older models, and the M10's ISO dial is welcome but would take a little getting used to. I prefer the M-D's rear-mounted thumb dial for ISO setting, it works more ergonomically for my fingers, but of course is impossible with a big LCD on the back of the camera. I didn't make any exposures with the camera (no card in it...) but fired the shutter a few times: sounds almost identical to the M-D to my ears.

    That's about it ... I liked the M10 very much, but will wait for Leica to produce an M-D version of it. I want that version of the optical viewfinder, but won't give up the handling feel and utter simplicity of the M-D for it.

    G
    Hi There Godfrey
    Good on you! Resilience in the face of GAS. To be honest, most of the advantages on the M10 relate to the speed of operation generally and in live view specially. If you like your MD, and you don't need faster shot to shot times or more ISO, then there really isn't a big reason to change.

    I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!

    Hope you're flourishing
    best
    Jono

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!
    Hi there Jono, perhaps you can tell us if there's an M10-P in the pipeline ?
    Let's say early next year or so ?

    Bart ...

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Hi there Jono, perhaps you can tell us if there's an M10-P in the pipeline ?
    Let's say early next year or so ?

    Hi Bart
    I can say categorically that there definitely might be (loosely translated as "I haven't a clue")

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Godfrey
    Good on you! Resilience in the face of GAS. To be honest, most of the advantages on the M10 relate to the speed of operation generally and in live view specially. If you like your MD, and you don't need faster shot to shot times or more ISO, then there really isn't a big reason to change.

    I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!

    Hope you're flourishing
    best
    Jono
    Thank you, Jono!

    The M10's optical viewfinder improvements are the biggest plus for me, but honestly I'm so delighted with the M-D that I'm thinking I might trade in my M-P for a second M-D typ 262 before I can't get a new one anymore. It's one of the very few cameras that I love to use more the more I use it. Every time I pick it up, it just feels right and works so transparently.

    Silly stuff, I know.

    Life is good. It's been chucking it down around here the past week or two—went to a movie this afternoon and exited into a deluge the likes of which I haven't seen in years. Amazing.

    I hope you're having fun testing the next secret bit o' gear. :-)

    best,
    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I'm currently in Chicago this week for a shoot, checked out the M10 at Tamarkin for about an hour yesterday, it's pretty much all I have ever wanted in a digital M so I am in line for one.

    My only niggle with it is already being addressed. I thought it was kind of lame that Leica did not black anodize the very visible lens mount on the black version, so Tamarkin said they are looking at offering that for $500 extra. I think I will just put .001˘ of back gaffer's tape around it instead, LOL!
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Hello,

    I hope this is the right thread...

    So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

    Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

    My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

    Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

    Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water.


    Thank you very much for your replies/input.

    Greetings, Jurgen

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I confess that I suffered an extreme case of Leica Lust and associated GAS and have a silver M10 and silver 35/1.4 on their way. This is the first M to enthuse me since I sold off my pair of M9s (to fund medium format). Really looking forward to delivery.

    Punted my X1D order in favor of this new M. Loved the feel of it . I'm probably also going to sell off my Sony A7RIi outfit and RX1RII now since my ideal setup is the Leica and my phase one outfit.

    The GAS was serious ... I also picked up a basically brand new Monochrom outfit with 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 and hopefully will be fully done when I add a WATE & 135/3.4 Telyt!!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I confess that I suffered an extreme case of Leica Lust and associated GAS and have a silver M10 and silver 35/1.4 on their way. This is the first M to enthuse me since I sold off my pair of M9s (to fund medium format). Really looking forward to delivery.

    Punted my X1D order in favor of this new M. Loved the feel of it . I'm probably also going to sell off my Sony A7RIi outfit and RX1RII now since my ideal setup is the Leica and my phase one outfit.

    The GAS was serious ... I also picked up a basically brand new Monochrom outfit with 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 and hopefully will be fully done when I add a WATE & 135/3.4 Telyt!!
    Can't say now that I haven't been forewarned of the slippery slope a Leica M purchase may lead to. Perhaps as dangerous as medium format digital.

    After years of resisting, I recently took my first small step....I am buying Stuart Richardson's M9. If I can learn to focus and enjoy using a rangefinder, my next step would more likely be a MM than a M10...although a M10 Monochrom would be tempting too.

    Gary

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
    True enough and it is usually hard to put the words "Leica" and "reasonable prices" in the same sentence. I'm still hoping Leica comes out with a stunning SL2 someday soon so I can eventually pick up a used SL for a "reasonable price" to use with my many R lenses. Sorry for going off topic.

    Gary

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hello,

    I hope this is the right thread...

    So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

    Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

    My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

    Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

    Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water.


    Thank you very much for your replies/input.

    Greetings, Jurgen
    I think a D4s and a Leica M are very very different. Everything longer 90mm is not so easy to focus accurate.
    I would higly recommend to first biy an M with a 35 or 50mm lens (maybe used) and keep the d4s until you are safe to say you can let the d4s go.

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Can't say now that I haven't been forewarned of the slippery slope a Leica M purchase may lead to. Perhaps as dangerous as medium format digital.
    Not for me, I just need a couple of lenses, a film body and a digital body and I am set in Leica. Then great pictures get made and the checks come rolling in.

    The M10 is a really nice camera but I have no idea when I might get mine, Leica is pretty slow and does not at all take care of pros in a way that we can count on like Nikon, Canon or even Hasselblad can.

    Hopefully by the end of the year, if not, no big deal, the M240 is plenty good.

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hello,

    I hope this is the right thread...

    So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

    Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

    My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

    Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

    Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water. ...
    Right thread or not, I hope to help. An M10 with 21, 50, and 90 mm lenses is a pretty complete kit for me, although I would likely want a 35 mm before I bought the 21mm.

    But before you jump in with both feet, sell off your Nikon kit, and make a $25K purchase like that having never worked with a Leica M camera before, you might consider a couple of things:

    • If you truly don't use the Nikon very much if at all, use your X2 exclusively for a bit. Using a Leica M with 35mm lens on it is much more akin to using a somewhat larger X2 that doesn't have autofocus, so learn how to use the X2 with zone focus and manual focus and see how you get on with just that. If you don't find yourself missing the Nikon kit, sell it and forget it.
    • Buy in "gently" ... by which I mean, don't jump in with an M10 and three-four lenses at once. Most Leica M users tend to use one or two lenses most of the time, even if over time they accumulate a half dozen lenses. Nearly any Leica lens is 'good enough' in terms of quality and performance, so buy the M10 and ONE lens. Use your time with relying upon the X2 as a guide to where you should start. If you liked the X2 field of view, go with a 35mm. If you felt you wanted a little wider, or a LOT wider, a 28 or 21 mm. If you felt you wanted a little longer, a 50mm. Spend a month or two with just the one lens, learning the camera: how to focus, when to use zone focus, how the meter works, where the controls are, how the sensor responds, etc etc. Then add a lens as you gain confidence and find yourself enjoying the feel and the results.


    There's always a possibility that you won't particularly take to the M, of course. At which point, if you buy in gently, it's much less to lose to trade it back for something that appeals to you more than the large Nikon kit. And if you do take to the M (like many of us!), buying lenses one at a time lets you spend time to learn what you have and keeps the drain on the pocketbook to a manageable level.

    Of course, if you have oodles of cash just burning a hole in your pocket, spend spend spend... but somehow that never seems to really work out best for me.

    My own habits with the M have become very simple now. I find myself carrying the M-D fitted with the Summilux 35mm v2 (1972 edition) most of the time and keep the Summitar-M 75mm in the bag and handy in case I want a bit more reach. Every so often, I fit a Color Skopar 50mm and carry nothing else, similarly I will every so often fit the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm ASPH (aka "the WATE") and just work with that alone. On a rare occasion, I break out the 90 or 135 lenses for a quick session.

    BTW, if you do a lot of ultra-wide angle landscape work, you can't really go wrong with the M10 plus EVF plus the WATE. Add a tripod and a remote release (or your smartphone and the M10 app) and you have everything you need for a lot of UW landscape work in a tiny, lightweight kit.

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
    Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

    To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

    I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me.

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Good advice from Godfrey - for new folks, buy in gently.

    Im an ex-Leica guy so know exactly what I want. Don't take my view of a full kit as a recommendation. Less really is more with Leica.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

    To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

    I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me.

    G
    Godfrey,

    a very brave decision!

    I would love to be already in that stage, albeit I am still a bit away of it

    All the best with your new gear hopefully soon!

    Peter

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

    To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

    I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me.

    G
    You are selling far more equipment than I've ever dreamt of owning
    http://www.keithlaban.co.uk
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    You are selling far more equipment than I've ever dreamt of owning
    I tend to accrete stuff.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    @Godfrey

    Thank you very much for this great reply. I wish I had unlimited cash that is only waiting to be spent
    I am not in a hurry and a colleague of mine is getting his M10 end of this month....so I will let some water run down the river and wait to get my hands on this one.
    So far I am using the Nikkor 24-70 by far the most, with most of the photos taken at the lower and at the higher end....so maybe 28 mm would be a good way to start....we will see.

    Thank you once again.

    Greetings, Jurgen

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    @Godfrey

    Thank you very much for this great reply. I wish I had unlimited cash that is only waiting to be spent
    I am not in a hurry and a colleague of mine is getting his M10 end of this month....so I will let some water run down the river and wait to get my hands on this one.
    So far I am using the Nikkor 24-70 by far the most, with most of the photos taken at the lower and at the higher end....so maybe 28 mm would be a good way to start....we will see.

    Thank you once again.

    Greetings, Jurgen
    The makings of a 28-50-90 kit. Summilux frenzy with a twist of 90 cron... you're on a expensive & slippery slope 😂

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    So - a brief update. Yesterday I went to the Leica shop in Dubai and the sales people were extremely friendly, helpful and well informed as you would expect/wish. I had enough time to try out both systems and take some shots, I could try out many different lenses as well. Unfortunately I didn't bring a SD-card so I can't take a look at my shots on my 5K iMac. However - the reason why I started all this was the weight of my Nikon system and we put a comparable system (SL, 24-90 and 90-280) on a weighscale and the Leica system was around 400g heavier than my Nikon....which made me thinking. Yes, the viewfinder of the SL is sensational but if I decided to go for the SL, I wouldn't win anything...so I spent more time with the M10 and I have to admit, that the focusing went quite well...far from perfect though but better than expected. I am now leaning more towards the M10 (which I could have within 2 weeks) and now, after having seen it, I think for a starter-kit, a 28mm and 50mm (not the Noctilux which I also tried out) would be enough. That brings up the next question which requires more info....which 28 and/or 50 lense...what are the differences, APO, Summicron, Summarit etc. ?

    The M10 which my colleague bought, was already there, ready for pick up and I will try to get my hands on that one before I make further decicsions.

    Greetings, Jurgen
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Hi Jurgen,

    I agree: the SL system is not for those looking for a "smaller or lighter than DSLR" system, not if you're intent on buying into the SL lenses. Used with selected M or R lenses, the kit can be a bit smaller and lighter than a DSLR system, but that supposes that autofocus isn't important to you and you're all right with using mount adapters. IMO, the SL system should always be considered as a modern Leica replacement for their R system SLRs, that's all, not as a replacement or competitor to the M system at all. The fact that the SL body is a good bit smaller than most DSLR bodies of similar grade and quality is the significant gain, but top-notch, pro-grade, fast zoom lenses are always pretty big and heavy. (Note that the Leica SLRs were never known as being particularly compact or light, aside from maybe the R4.) I think, from what I've seen, that the upcoming Summicron-SL prime lenses will be reasonably compact, in line with other SLR system primes of similar focal length.

    The M system wins out if you're looking for more compact, lighter weight body and lenses, and presumes that the usual range from 28 to 135 mm with manual focus is what you*are after.

    Regards lenses, pretty much any Leica lens is a very fine performer. Elmars are usually f/3.5 to f/4; Elmarits are usually f/2.8; Summarits are usually about f/2.4-2.5; Summicrons are usually f/2; and Summilux are usually f/1.4. Prices scale with lens speed in each of the focal length brackets, as does weight and size. You can't really go wrong with a Summicron 50 and 28. You might want to go faster or slower depending on your budget and other desires. But basically, none of them are disappointing in my experience.

    And then there's the Leica lens addicts' fascination with particular series of lenses ... I'm not entirely immune either.

    Right now, my circa 1972 Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2 is my all time favorite 35mm lens, and I'm delighted with the current Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4. I had a Summilux-M 75/1.4 some years ago and found it rather heavy and awkward; I understand the APO Summicron-M 75 is superb, but I decided on "light weight comes first." The next lens I get for my M will be a Summicron 50, and likely a current series standard one, because I know that lens very well having had an excellent experience with the previous series. (Current series is different only in very minor ways, including the six bit code.)

    Have fun making your decisions!

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Hi Godfrey,

    thank you very much for your reply and for resolving my confusion about the different lense-types/variations.

    Now I just need to plan a bank robbery to fund the purchase .

    Greetings, Jurgen
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hi Godfrey,

    thank you very much for your reply and for resolving my confusion about the different lense-types/variations.

    Now I just need to plan a bank robbery to fund the purchase .

    Greetings, Jurgen
    That's the standard problem.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    This was a fun thread to read...very civil. I too, am gently getting back into Leica after selling my beautiful M3 and 50 Cron, M6ttl, and M9 and 35mm Cron. Over time I've tried different formats and gear, but keep coming back to Leica for the pure joy of being inspired. I played with a Leica Q and was amazed at the leaf shutter, fast AF and rendering of that 28mm Summilux. The MF tab was perfect and smooth like butter and the magnification and peaking just works! I just picked up a chrome MP with a 50 Lux (pre ASPH) for FF film shooting, but if Leica ever produced a weather sealed Q2 with a AF 50 mm Lux, it would be most likely there best selling camera ever, imo. The M10 looks interesting too... Hmm, the key word is "gently".

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Just a little update. After much thinking and analyzing, I decided that obtaining the SL90-280 zoom lens is probably the first priority acquisition in my gear realignment so I've set the focus of my sales and equipment trade on that for the moment. The performance and quality of this lens probably outstrips all my other long R lenses ... I'd use it more due to the image stabilization too.

    After that, it's a bigger bit of decision making to come now that Hasselblad has pre-announced they're working on a 22mm lens for the X1D. Damn them. I wonder how much I can get for the Nikon Coolscan 9000 and the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses ... sigh.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    After that, it's a bigger bit of decision making to come now that Hasselblad has pre-announced they're working on a 22mm lens for the X1D. Damn them. I wonder how much I can get for the Nikon Coolscan 9000 and the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses ... sigh.

    G
    What Hasselblad lenses are you going to sell? I'm looking for a wide angle (≤30mm) for my Contax.

    Cheers, Joe
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainjoe View Post
    What Hasselblad lenses are you going to sell? I'm looking for a wide angle (≤30mm) for my Contax.

    Cheers, Joe
    Well, there are no Hasselblad V system lenses shorter than the 38mm on the SWC, other than the fisheye, that I know of. 38mm on 6x6 format is equivalent to about a 16mm on a square-crop 35mm format camera. I have Distagon 50mm f/4, Planar 80mm f/2.8, Makro-Planar 120mm f/4, and Sonnar 150mm f/4 lense for the 500CM, and the SWC. I've not made any decisions yet, but I suspect that if I sell one, I'll sell them all ... other than the SWC.

    The SWC is NOT going to be sold.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    The SWC is NOT going to be sold.

    G
    I wouldn't either

    Cheers, Joe
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    To follow up again: The first part of my big equipment juggle was completed yesterday.

    I negotiated a trade and purchase sending a bundle of "no longer used" Leica bodies and lenses to my dealer buddy in exchange for a new-DEMO Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm and a used-MINT Summicron-M 50mm. My end goal is to have the SL, the Leicaflex SL, the M-D, and the M4-2 bodies with the two SL zooms, a small kit of R lenses, and a small kit of M lenses. Leica film and digital, R/SL and M, the mainstay of my shooting needs.

    After this, I will divest myself of Pentax, Nikon, and Olympus gear, the big film scanner, and see where that leaves the bank balance. If there's enough in the pot, I order the X1D body and wait for the 22 and 120 Macro lenses. If I need to sell off more to fund those, the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses go. The goal is to end up with the X1D + 22mm + 120 Macro and the SWC in addition to the Leica kit. (The X1D plus the 120 Macro should make an amazing 6x6 film scanner...)

    I'll then have probably a dozen high-quality camera bags to sell and/or give away... My equipment closet will look amazingly empty at that point.

    "I detect a madness to this method..."

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Camera bags are like Entropy. They only increase over time.

    --Matt
    mattgraysonphoto.com
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense"
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense"
    Great! I hope you enjoy it. You can't go wrong with the 'Lux 50mm. That's always a great lens.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I am also in Abu Dhabi (for now) and I checked the prices in Dubai but they were on the high side. I am on a waiting list for M10. I am getting mine from the UK.

    I have a silver 50 Summilux that I will be selling

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Sorry for OT but another brief update. Today I sold all my Nikon Gear and called Leica Dubai right away. They are expecting new stocks of M10 next week and 1 black is reserved for me...I chose the Summilux 50 as a "start lense"

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Welcome to the sandpit - living in the UAE is anything but cheap. I hope your shipment arrives safe and sound (I am living here for 12 years....). I had reserved a black M10 and a black Summilux 50. They got stocks today but not as much as they had hoped for and so I have to wait another 2 weeks (they said).

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240



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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    So how do we feel on the M10 ergonomics versus M240 (and previous M8/M9) body styles?

    On the M240 (and M8/M9) I found the thumbs-up to be absolutely a must.
    I also dabbled with grips, 50% of the time on M8/M9 and pretty much 100% of time on M240.

    Especially with medium length/weight lenses like 50/1.4 ASPH Summilux.. I found the front-weighted balance to require these grip aids.

    So now the M10 is lighter (just barely), thinner (noticeably?) and with a slightly different thumb-friendly bump in the rear...

    Do M10 users find their grip accessory use to be any different?
    blog
    steve

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by sjg284 View Post
    So how do we feel on the M10 ergonomics versus M240 (and previous M8/M9) body styles?

    On the M240 (and M8/M9) I found the thumbs-up to be absolutely a must.
    I also dabbled with grips, 50% of the time on M8/M9 and pretty much 100% of time on M240.

    Especially with medium length/weight lenses like 50/1.4 ASPH Summilux.. I found the front-weighted balance to require these grip aids.

    So now the M10 is lighter (just barely), thinner (noticeably?) and with a slightly different thumb-friendly bump in the rear...

    Do M10 users find their grip accessory use to be any different?
    As I wrote in the first post on this thread, the M10 felt impressively slimmer in my hand than the M-P did but not significantly thinner in feel compared to the M-D.

    I've never gotten comfortable with the Thumbs Up or Thumbie, ended up not using them when I had them, and used a half case on both the M9 and M-P to improve the fit for my hands. That would likely still be the case with the M10 for me, were I to buy one.

    The issue for me is that all of the M models with an LCD and the array of buttons and controls have insufficient gripping space for my hands and places to rest my fingers. The M-D is the exception that proves this ... I've not felt the need for either a half-case or thumbs up device to improve my grip with the M-D because it has a lot of body real estate for my hands. It's just like using my M4-2 in my hands ... albeit that I tend to put the M4-2 into a half-case to make it a little thicker and easier to grip.

    I'll be interested in other user responses who do own the M10 and how they feel about it.

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    To follow up again: The first part of my big equipment juggle was completed yesterday.

    I negotiated a trade and purchase sending a bundle of "no longer used" Leica bodies and lenses to my dealer buddy in exchange for a new-DEMO Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280mm and a used-MINT Summicron-M 50mm. My end goal is to have the SL, the Leicaflex SL, the M-D, and the M4-2 bodies with the two SL zooms, a small kit of R lenses, and a small kit of M lenses. Leica film and digital, R/SL and M, the mainstay of my shooting needs.

    After this, I will divest myself of Pentax, Nikon, and Olympus gear, the big film scanner, and see where that leaves the bank balance. If there's enough in the pot, I order the X1D body and wait for the 22 and 120 Macro lenses. If I need to sell off more to fund those, the Hasselblad 500CM + lenses go. The goal is to end up with the X1D + 22mm + 120 Macro and the SWC in addition to the Leica kit. (The X1D plus the 120 Macro should make an amazing 6x6 film scanner...)

    I'll then have probably a dozen high-quality camera bags to sell and/or give away... My equipment closet will look amazingly empty at that point.

    "I detect a madness to this method..."
    Update X+1:

    I spend a fun morning yesterday with the Leica SL photographing my Nikon gear for sale. I decided to hold back from listing my 1961 plain-prism F and the 55 Macro for the moment ... Nostalgia overwhelmed me.

    The SL with the two zooms make for an excellent tabletop system, btw. I ran the camera on a tripod using the Leica SL app on my iPad Pro, using my home WiFi to connect them: That made it super easy to set up each item's staging and set focus without having to run behind the camera each time. Of course, being forgetful, I made the error of using AutoWB so I had to white balance each frame—*always* lock the white balance when doing tabletop work, it just makes it so much easier to make a complete set of photos with consistent color. The live display of the subject and bright, easy to see DOF preview is extremely helpful to be sure that you've got what you want, in proper focus, and exposed just right. The WiFi remote release eliminates any possibility of lending any camera movement to the setup rig (the one photo that does have a tiny bit is the only one I released with the camera's shutter release button and a 2sec self timer).

    The two bodies—Nikon D750 and Nikon F6—listed on Ebay last night at 7:30 and 8:00. Both now have bids on them, it'll be fun to see how their prices run up on the way to Sunday evening's auction close. I've got nine lenses to list over the next few days (I don't like to have more than two/three closing on the same evening, to keep the shipping craziness manageable.)

    It's happening. The Leica excess and Pentax gear gone. Once the Nikon bits are gone, I go to work on the Olympus stuff, and some miscellaneous excess Polaroid and other things. The closets will be so much roomier!

    onwards!
    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I did some similar things , after owning the SL for about a year I sold the df and (nearly) all Nikon lenses I still had.
    Using mainly cameras from one brand makes life easier because menues have many similarities and also the image output is close in regards of color and post processing needs.
    I still own way too much gear.
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Update X+1:

    I spend a fun morning yesterday with the Leica SL photographing my Nikon gear for sale. I decided to hold back from listing my 1961 plain-prism F and the 55 Macro for the moment ... Nostalgia overwhelmed me.
    ....
    onwards!
    G
    I totally understand the feeling. I left a Nikon F, 55 macro and 105/2.5 in a friend's garage when we left the country around 2000. They were what got me started in the 1960s. A divorce and various vicissitudes (not mine) mean that they are no longer to be found. I can still recall the "ka-whomp" of the F shutter when shooting from the audience seats during a quiet rehearsal.

    scott

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    I totally understand the feeling. I left a Nikon F, 55 macro and 105/2.5 in a friend's garage when we left the country around 2000. They were what got me started in the 1960s. A divorce and various vicissitudes (not mine) mean that they are no longer to be found. I can still recall the "ka-whomp" of the F shutter when shooting from the audience seats during a quiet rehearsal.
    The Nikon F is like a comfortable old truck: All the newer ones run away from it with their fancy interiors and bazillion conveniences, but the old clatterbox just keeps krumping along regardless. When the new ones are put down because they don't have the latest stereo conveniences, the F just keeps going and going.

    My first SLR was a 1969 Nikon F Photomic FTn with a Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 lens. I used it through the rest of my high school years and through my first years in college. Gave it to a friend in 1976 when I bought the Olympus OM-1...

    This one belonged to a friend, who got it in turn from a friend, and for reasons unknown he took the lens off it and put it in a box in his cellar with other junk for a decade. When it turned up in conversation a few years back, he mentioned that he didn't know what he'd do with it (he's a Pentax shooter) and couldn't find the lens. I offered that I'd be interested and he just gave it to me, body with lower half of the case and the original selenium clip-on meter (not working, of course). I tested the body and found it was so full of dirt that none of the slow speeds were working, so off it went to the shop for a thorough cleaning and overhaul. $170 later, it came home in sparkly nice working condition with just a little bit of roughness to its cosmetics... perfect! I'd picked up the Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 Pre-AI for some other project for the grand price of $80 about then. I don't use the F often, but I enjoy every moment with it that I do. It's very much a case of revisiting my errant youth in photography.

    The F6 and D750 are sold. The 25-50 and 18mm are sold. Time to post another couple of lenses...

    onwards!
    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Another update... The Great Equipment Sell Off ...

    The Nikon sales continue. I'm down to just the Nikkor 28/2 AI and Nikkor 50/1.2 AI-S to post at this point. I've thought of holding back the 28/2 for use with the old F as well as the 55 Macro, and then I think of just selling it and the F and 55 Micro too. A clean sweep, I'll be completely out of Nikon gear.

    But no matter, I'll figure that when I get to it. Time to pull out the tabletop setup again and get photos of all the FourThirds/Micro-FourThirds gear ready. As well as a few other miscellaneous things ... I'm enjoying seeing all the empty space appear in my closets.

    G

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    The M10 is now about 7 months old since it was released on Jan 18th. As this thread title suggests, I would be very much appreciated to the ex-owners of M-D type 262 or M type 240 if they can post images taken with their new M10 and compare the image ID with the type 262 or 240.
    Thanks again.

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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Quote Originally Posted by SKueh View Post
    The M10 is now about 7 months old since it was released on Jan 18th. As this thread title suggests, I would be very much appreciated to the ex-owners of M-D type 262 or M type 240 if they can post images taken with their new M10 and compare the image ID with the type 262 or 240.
    Thanks again.
    As the original poster of this thread, that was not the focus of this thread. My comparison thoughts were more about the haptics of the two cameras.

    I don't think you'll see much difference in image quality between them unless you're looking at out-of-camera JPEGs—where the color calibration might be a little different—or at the absolute extremes of sensitivity. I certainly don't see much difference from what I get with the M-D (or got with the M-P) in any of the photos I've seen from the M10.

    G
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    I have both the M 10 and the M 262. I can tell you from use in both professional and personal work that the M 10 is very good to about 20,000 ISO. The M 262 at 6400 was sketch at best. The M 10 I would say has better files without the banding issues and better color and DR at 20,000 than the M 262 has at 3200. The M 10 is also insanely responsive. I can say that it is the finest 135 or crop format camera I have ever shot with. Having the ISO dial on the top left side and retaining the shutter speed dial on the to right and the aperture and DoF scales on the lenses is just perfect in my opinion. I can see everything I need to know at a glance without having to go into the menu. And if I do have to push buttons and go into a menu there are only 3 buttons on the back to push and the menu is only a couple of pages and extremely easy to manage especially compared to many other digital cameras today.


    Here are a couple of test shots I took right after it arrived just a little over a month ago.
    M 10 20,000 ISO tungsten bulbs that were in the room.




    And some street stuff all at 3200 IIRC






    and something for a client at 400 ISO IIRC 35 lux FLE wide open
    Last edited by airfrogusmc; 26th August 2017 at 11:32. Reason: typo
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    As far as how the M 10 feels in your hands I am a big guy and never felt that the M-E (M9) or M 262 was to fat. The M 10 is slimmer and feels that way to me. I did buy the Leica stock brown leather half case for mine and it is terrific. Feels great in the hand.

    M 10 35 Lux FLE at 6400 ISO


    6400 24 Elmarit 2.8 asph
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    M 10 with Leica half case
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    Re: M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

    Thanks for your thoughts, AirfrogUSMC. Some interesting photographs you posted, thx!

    I still prefer the M-D (not the standard M typ 262) over the M10. It has nothing to do with the camera's technical capability: I just like it more every time I pick it up. So much for rationality ...

    Since I have it set to either ISO 400, 800, or 1600 about 99% of the time, whatever the performance at ISO 3200 or 20,000 might be is pretty much irrelevant to my use.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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