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M10 compared to M-D typ 262, M-P typ 240

Godfrey

Well-known member
I was in Leica Store - San Francisco yesterday to see the M10 in person. I had my M-D typ 262 with me to compare key differences.

The M10 is impressively slimmer in feel than the M-P but not so much slimmer in the hand compared to the M-D. A little bit, yes. The protrusion of the control bits and the LCD on the M-D is a little less intrusive than on the M-P but at least to my hands it has nowhere near the handling comfort of the M-D. Such is the price of having the display and buttons, I guess. It's not without merit but I still like the feel of the M-D more.

The viewfinder on the M10, however, is a revelation. Finally an M viewfinder that I can see all the frame lines from 28mm to 135 easily and comfortably, with my glasses on! The focusing patch is nicely a bit larger due to the magnification, making it easier to focus, and I can for the very first time see something outside of the 28mm frames. Frankly, when Leica introduces an "M-D10" model, it will be very difficult to resist it for this viewfinder alone.

I didn't spend too much time looking at the M10 ... the viewfinder difference was my biggest interest ... but the new, simpler menu structure and buttons are nice, the simplified on/off switch is much more to my liking than the off/single/continuous/self switch on the older models, and the M10's ISO dial is welcome but would take a little getting used to. I prefer the M-D's rear-mounted thumb dial for ISO setting, it works more ergonomically for my fingers, but of course is impossible with a big LCD on the back of the camera. I didn't make any exposures with the camera (no card in it...) but fired the shutter a few times: sounds almost identical to the M-D to my ears.

That's about it ... I liked the M10 very much, but will wait for Leica to produce an M-D version of it. I want that version of the optical viewfinder, but won't give up the handling feel and utter simplicity of the M-D for it.

G
 

jonoslack

Active member
I was in Leica Store - San Francisco yesterday to see the M10 in person. I had my M-D typ 262 with me to compare key differences.

The M10 is impressively slimmer in feel than the M-P but not so much slimmer in the hand compared to the M-D. A little bit, yes. The protrusion of the control bits and the LCD on the M-D is a little less intrusive than on the M-P but at least to my hands it has nowhere near the handling comfort of the M-D. Such is the price of having the display and buttons, I guess. It's not without merit but I still like the feel of the M-D more.

The viewfinder on the M10, however, is a revelation. Finally an M viewfinder that I can see all the frame lines from 28mm to 135 easily and comfortably, with my glasses on! The focusing patch is nicely a bit larger due to the magnification, making it easier to focus, and I can for the very first time see something outside of the 28mm frames. Frankly, when Leica introduces an "M-D10" model, it will be very difficult to resist it for this viewfinder alone.

I didn't spend too much time looking at the M10 ... the viewfinder difference was my biggest interest ... but the new, simpler menu structure and buttons are nice, the simplified on/off switch is much more to my liking than the off/single/continuous/self switch on the older models, and the M10's ISO dial is welcome but would take a little getting used to. I prefer the M-D's rear-mounted thumb dial for ISO setting, it works more ergonomically for my fingers, but of course is impossible with a big LCD on the back of the camera. I didn't make any exposures with the camera (no card in it...) but fired the shutter a few times: sounds almost identical to the M-D to my ears.

That's about it ... I liked the M10 very much, but will wait for Leica to produce an M-D version of it. I want that version of the optical viewfinder, but won't give up the handling feel and utter simplicity of the M-D for it.

G
Hi There Godfrey
Good on you! Resilience in the face of GAS. To be honest, most of the advantages on the M10 relate to the speed of operation generally and in live view specially. If you like your MD, and you don't need faster shot to shot times or more ISO, then there really isn't a big reason to change.

I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!

Hope you're flourishing
best
Jono
 

Knorp

Well-known member
I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!
Hi there Jono, perhaps you can tell us if there's an M10-P in the pipeline ?
Let's say early next year or so ?

:chug:
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi there Jono, perhaps you can tell us if there's an M10-P in the pipeline ?
Let's say early next year or so ?

:chug:
Hi Bart
I can say categorically that there definitely might be (loosely translated as "I haven't a clue")
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi There Godfrey
Good on you! Resilience in the face of GAS. To be honest, most of the advantages on the M10 relate to the speed of operation generally and in live view specially. If you like your MD, and you don't need faster shot to shot times or more ISO, then there really isn't a big reason to change.

I've no idea if they're going to produce an MD version of the M10, so I can speculate that they really will, but I guess it'll be a few years down the line!

Hope you're flourishing
best
Jono
Thank you, Jono!

The M10's optical viewfinder improvements are the biggest plus for me, but honestly I'm so delighted with the M-D that I'm thinking I might trade in my M-P for a second M-D typ 262 before I can't get a new one anymore. It's one of the very few cameras that I love to use more the more I use it. Every time I pick it up, it just feels right and works so transparently.

Silly stuff, I know.

Life is good. It's been chucking it down around here the past week or two—went to a movie this afternoon and exited into a deluge the likes of which I haven't seen in years. Amazing.

I hope you're having fun testing the next secret bit o' gear. :)

best,
G
 

Magic

New member
Hello,

I hope this is the right thread...

So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water.


Thank you very much for your replies/input.

Greetings, Jurgen
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I confess that I suffered an extreme case of Leica Lust and associated GAS and have a silver M10 and silver 35/1.4 on their way. This is the first M to enthuse me since I sold off my pair of M9s (to fund medium format). Really looking forward to delivery.

Punted my X1D order in favor of this new M. Loved the feel of it :thumbs:. I'm probably also going to sell off my Sony A7RIi outfit and RX1RII now since my ideal setup is the Leica and my phase one outfit.

The GAS was serious ... I also picked up a basically brand new Monochrom outfit with 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 and hopefully will be fully done when I add a WATE & 135/3.4 Telyt!! :facesmack:
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I confess that I suffered an extreme case of Leica Lust and associated GAS and have a silver M10 and silver 35/1.4 on their way. This is the first M to enthuse me since I sold off my pair of M9s (to fund medium format). Really looking forward to delivery.

Punted my X1D order in favor of this new M. Loved the feel of it :thumbs:. I'm probably also going to sell off my Sony A7RIi outfit and RX1RII now since my ideal setup is the Leica and my phase one outfit.

The GAS was serious ... I also picked up a basically brand new Monochrom outfit with 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 and hopefully will be fully done when I add a WATE & 135/3.4 Telyt!! :facesmack:
Can't say now that I haven't been forewarned of the slippery slope a Leica M purchase may lead to. Perhaps as dangerous as medium format digital.

After years of resisting, I recently took my first small step....I am buying Stuart Richardson's M9. If I can learn to focus and enjoy using a rangefinder, my next step would more likely be a MM than a M10...although a M10 Monochrom would be tempting too.

Gary
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
 

bensonga

Well-known member
The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
True enough and it is usually hard to put the words "Leica" and "reasonable prices" in the same sentence. I'm still hoping Leica comes out with a stunning SL2 someday soon so I can eventually pick up a used SL for a "reasonable price" to use with my many R lenses. Sorry for going off topic.

Gary
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Hello,

I hope this is the right thread...

So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water.


Thank you very much for your replies/input.

Greetings, Jurgen
I think a D4s and a Leica M are very very different. Everything longer 90mm is not so easy to focus accurate.
I would higly recommend to first biy an M with a 35 or 50mm lens (maybe used) and keep the d4s until you are safe to say you can let the d4s go.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hello,

I hope this is the right thread...

So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any recommendations.

Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water. ...
Right thread or not, I hope to help. An M10 with 21, 50, and 90 mm lenses is a pretty complete kit for me, although I would likely want a 35 mm before I bought the 21mm.

But before you jump in with both feet, sell off your Nikon kit, and make a $25K purchase like that having never worked with a Leica M camera before, you might consider a couple of things:

  • If you truly don't use the Nikon very much if at all, use your X2 exclusively for a bit. Using a Leica M with 35mm lens on it is much more akin to using a somewhat larger X2 that doesn't have autofocus, so learn how to use the X2 with zone focus and manual focus and see how you get on with just that. If you don't find yourself missing the Nikon kit, sell it and forget it.
  • Buy in "gently" ... by which I mean, don't jump in with an M10 and three-four lenses at once. Most Leica M users tend to use one or two lenses most of the time, even if over time they accumulate a half dozen lenses. Nearly any Leica lens is 'good enough' in terms of quality and performance, so buy the M10 and ONE lens. Use your time with relying upon the X2 as a guide to where you should start. If you liked the X2 field of view, go with a 35mm. If you felt you wanted a little wider, or a LOT wider, a 28 or 21 mm. If you felt you wanted a little longer, a 50mm. Spend a month or two with just the one lens, learning the camera: how to focus, when to use zone focus, how the meter works, where the controls are, how the sensor responds, etc etc. Then add a lens as you gain confidence and find yourself enjoying the feel and the results.

There's always a possibility that you won't particularly take to the M, of course. At which point, if you buy in gently, it's much less to lose to trade it back for something that appeals to you more than the large Nikon kit. And if you do take to the M (like many of us!), buying lenses one at a time lets you spend time to learn what you have and keeps the drain on the pocketbook to a manageable level.

Of course, if you have oodles of cash just burning a hole in your pocket, spend spend spend... but somehow that never seems to really work out best for me. :shocked:

My own habits with the M have become very simple now. I find myself carrying the M-D fitted with the Summilux 35mm v2 (1972 edition) most of the time and keep the Summitar-M 75mm in the bag and handy in case I want a bit more reach. Every so often, I fit a Color Skopar 50mm and carry nothing else, similarly I will every so often fit the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm ASPH (aka "the WATE") and just work with that alone. On a rare occasion, I break out the 90 or 135 lenses for a quick session.

BTW, if you do a lot of ultra-wide angle landscape work, you can't really go wrong with the M10 plus EVF plus the WATE. Add a tripod and a remote release (or your smartphone and the M10 app) and you have everything you need for a lot of UW landscape work in a tiny, lightweight kit.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The M10 buying frenzy is good for those of us buying in again. People selling off bodies and lenses ahead of time at almost reasonable prices. Almost ...
Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me. :angel:

G
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Good advice from Godfrey - for new folks, buy in gently.

Im an ex-Leica guy so know exactly what I want. Don't take my view of a full kit as a recommendation. Less really is more with Leica.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me. :angel:

G
Godfrey,

a very brave decision!

I would love to be already in that stage, albeit I am still a bit away of it :D

All the best with your new gear hopefully soon!

Peter
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Well, if anyone wants a black Leica M-P typ 240 body (with EVF and Leica Protector half case, brand new battery and charger, box, paperwork, etc etc), I've decided that I will sell or trade it for another M-D body ... and I'd like a Summicron-M 50mm as well. And an SL90-280 too for the SL.

To help fund these purchases, I am also selling my R8, Leicaflex SL, X113, CL, and a few M-mount lenses, all of my Nikon stuff, all of my Olympus stuff, my 19, 35, 135, 180, and 250mm R lenses, the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000, and maybe a few other things as well. If you have interest in any of this gear, I'm assembling the complete list with pricing over the course of the next few days and will post it as soon as I have it done.

I have way, WAY too much gear at present. I want to get this mess down to one film M, a pair of M-Ds, the SL, and the minimum lens and accessory kit that covers my needs and does what I want. That will be the nirvana of minimum distraction for me. :angel:

G
You are selling far more equipment than I've ever dreamt of owning :angel:
 

Magic

New member
@Godfrey

Thank you very much for this great reply. I wish I had unlimited cash that is only waiting to be spent:grin:
I am not in a hurry and a colleague of mine is getting his M10 end of this month....so I will let some water run down the river and wait to get my hands on this one.
So far I am using the Nikkor 24-70 by far the most, with most of the photos taken at the lower and at the higher end....so maybe 28 mm would be a good way to start....we will see.

Thank you once again.

Greetings, Jurgen
 
@Godfrey

Thank you very much for this great reply. I wish I had unlimited cash that is only waiting to be spent:grin:
I am not in a hurry and a colleague of mine is getting his M10 end of this month....so I will let some water run down the river and wait to get my hands on this one.
So far I am using the Nikkor 24-70 by far the most, with most of the photos taken at the lower and at the higher end....so maybe 28 mm would be a good way to start....we will see.

Thank you once again.

Greetings, Jurgen
The makings of a 28-50-90 kit. Summilux frenzy with a twist of 90 cron... you're on a expensive & slippery slope 😂
 

Magic

New member
So - a brief update. Yesterday I went to the Leica shop in Dubai and the sales people were extremely friendly, helpful and well informed as you would expect/wish. I had enough time to try out both systems and take some shots, I could try out many different lenses as well. Unfortunately I didn't bring a SD-card so I can't take a look at my shots on my 5K iMac. However - the reason why I started all this was the weight of my Nikon system and we put a comparable system (SL, 24-90 and 90-280) on a weighscale and the Leica system was around 400g heavier than my Nikon....which made me thinking. Yes, the viewfinder of the SL is sensational but if I decided to go for the SL, I wouldn't win anything...so I spent more time with the M10 and I have to admit, that the focusing went quite well...far from perfect though but better than expected. I am now leaning more towards the M10 (which I could have within 2 weeks) and now, after having seen it, I think for a starter-kit, a 28mm and 50mm (not the Noctilux which I also tried out) would be enough. That brings up the next question which requires more info....which 28 and/or 50 lense...what are the differences, APO, Summicron, Summarit etc. ?

The M10 which my colleague bought, was already there, ready for pick up and I will try to get my hands on that one before I make further decicsions.

Greetings, Jurgen
 
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