The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

SL or M and lens adapters - how it works in real life

Hi SL or M users,

I am contemplating making a case for SL using adapters to work with Nikon, M-glass, and Phase One medium format lenses potentially. I am unsure of a few things and hope some of you can help me out.

1. I am aware there are some lenses that have better communication (Lenses with E designation in Nikon land), but what happens with other lenses with auto aperture, for example my 16-35 f4G ED VR. Does it stay at max aperture and the adapter has a built in aperture? Is peeking sufficient with such a small throw on the focusing ring in real life?

2. Bonus round - HCam Doubleshift HDS Adapter or equivalent, anyone used shift adapters before?

3. Medium Format lens with Leaf Shutters, does it even work?


Thanks for your thought and any real world use input is much appreciated. My intent is to have a camera that does video and can be a back-up on shoots and a good alternative for shoots where I need to travel - saves on space. I can live with Manual Focus using peeking, just not sure how easy or accurate it is in real life.

Thanks,
Steve
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
1. I am aware there are some lenses that have better communication (Lenses with E designation in Nikon land), but what happens with other lenses with auto aperture, for example my 16-35 f4G ED VR. Does it stay at max aperture and the adapter has a built in aperture? Is peeking sufficient with such a small throw on the focusing ring in real life?
For Nikon E series lenses, you use the Novoflex mount adapter specially designed for them to get aperture control and a measure of AF competency. No VR. Lens ID information is transmitted into the body for EXIF.

For other Nikon lenses, you use the Novoflex LET/NIK mount adapter. This has an external control for the aperture mechanism. You don't get marked apertures ... you can easily find wide open and fully stopped down, but in-between is a judgement call. Focus is all manual, the aperture is worked manually at all times; I'm perfectly comfortable focusing at taking aperture until the light levels are low enough that I can't see the focus change clearly. I'm not familiar with the Nikon 16-35 lens so can't comment on the focus throw dynamics.

Focus peaking is great for roughing in a quick focus setting, but critical focus is best performed with peaking OFF and focus magnification ON. For mount adapters other than those that provide AF capabilities, you use the joystick button to quickly cycle between normal and max magnification when focusing; for native lenses and those mount adapters that provide AF, you use the Bottom-Left (BL) button to cycle between normal, medium magnification, and max magnification.

2. Bonus round - HCam Doubleshift HDS Adapter or equivalent, anyone used shift adapters before?

Never used any shift adapters so I can't comment on that.

3. Medium Format lens with Leaf Shutters, does it even work?
I don't have the Hasselblad V to Leica L mount adapter so I don't have any experience with it. Looking around at what's available, there seem to be several different H-V and Phase One mount to Leica SL adapters with different features. Since all my Hasselblad V lenses are lens-shutter type, I would be sure to get one that allowed me to control the aperture, that's all. On H-V, that's relatively simple to do since there's an on-lens control to stop down the aperture while focusing to allow a DoF check; it's all mechanical. I'm not familiar with Phase One lenses.

Thanks for your thought and any real world use input is much appreciated. My intent is to have a camera that does video and can be a back-up on shoots and a good alternative for shoots where I need to travel - saves on space. I can live with Manual Focus using peeking, just not sure how easy or accurate it is in real life.
I've been using the SL with adapted Leica R lenses since it was released. I use the Leica M Adapter L stacked with the R Adapter M. Leica provides lens profiles for nearly all R lenses to optimize them for use on the SL, a big plus. But I've used an occasional Nikon lens as well, fitting a Rayqual Nikon F to Leica M adapter onto the M Adapter L: it works just as well, minus the lens profile. Focusing is no problem at all: very accurate with all lenses. Focus peaking is best for roughing in focus with still photography work, it's really best when doing video because it gives you a better feel for the focus zone than the critical plane of focus. Focus magnification allows incredibly accurate focusing, particularly with short lenses (natural camera movement while manipulating controls with longer lenses eventually makes it harder to focus with magnification on, but of course the longer lens gives you magnification anyway...).

Using adapted manual lenses reduces metering mode choices to just two: manual and aperture priority auto. The most significant degradation of the SL's capability with adapted lenses comes from reduced metering range ... the body does not know anything about the lens or lens aperture so you lose a stop or so of range at the low end. This was improved upon with the latest firmware update (v2.2). It's not proven to be a difficulty even before that, you just have to realize that at some point all cameras' in-body metering ends.

The SL viewfinder is fantastic. Like all EVFs, it does have some limitations as you reach the extremes of usage (limitations on adaptive capability in extremely bright sun, limitations on refresh as ambient light gets extremely low, etc etc), but in general it is responsive with little lag, has plenty of dynamic range, and the resolution is excellent. It operates a bit differently in Manual exposure vs auto exposure modes, depending on the mode. Too hard to explain briefly, but after a bit of using it, it all makes sense and is easy to use.

Hope That Helps.™ :)

G
 
Hi Godfrey,

Thank you so much for your detailed and very useful info. A few more questions for you:

1. Magnified view - can you move around once you are zoomed in?

2. The 24-90 zoom lens, assuming you use it, how is the geometric distortion (i.e. for architectural work, are the edges straight or have barrel or pinch cushion distortion) Also can you use AF during video recording? Do you get peeking during recording or it can only be used while in standby mode.

Thanks!

For Nikon E series lenses, you use the Novoflex mount adapter specially designed for them to get aperture control and a measure of AF competency. No VR. Lens ID information is transmitted into the body for EXIF.

For other Nikon lenses, you use the Novoflex LET/NIK mount adapter. This has an external control for the aperture mechanism. You don't get marked apertures ... you can easily find wide open and fully stopped down, but in-between is a judgement call. Focus is all manual, the aperture is worked manually at all times; I'm perfectly comfortable focusing at taking aperture until the light levels are low enough that I can't see the focus change clearly. I'm not familiar with the Nikon 16-35 lens so can't comment on the focus throw dynamics.

Focus peaking is great for roughing in a quick focus setting, but critical focus is best performed with peaking OFF and focus magnification ON. For mount adapters other than those that provide AF capabilities, you use the joystick button to quickly cycle between normal and max magnification when focusing; for native lenses and those mount adapters that provide AF, you use the Bottom-Left (BL) button to cycle between normal, medium magnification, and max magnification.

2. Bonus round - HCam Doubleshift HDS Adapter or equivalent, anyone used shift adapters before?

Never used any shift adapters so I can't comment on that.



I don't have the Hasselblad V to Leica L mount adapter so I don't have any experience with it. Looking around at what's available, there seem to be several different H-V and Phase One mount to Leica SL adapters with different features. Since all my Hasselblad V lenses are lens-shutter type, I would be sure to get one that allowed me to control the aperture, that's all. On H-V, that's relatively simple to do since there's an on-lens control to stop down the aperture while focusing to allow a DoF check; it's all mechanical. I'm not familiar with Phase One lenses.



I've been using the SL with adapted Leica R lenses since it was released. I use the Leica M Adapter L stacked with the R Adapter M. Leica provides lens profiles for nearly all R lenses to optimize them for use on the SL, a big plus. But I've used an occasional Nikon lens as well, fitting a Rayqual Nikon F to Leica M adapter onto the M Adapter L: it works just as well, minus the lens profile. Focusing is no problem at all: very accurate with all lenses. Focus peaking is best for roughing in focus with still photography work, it's really best when doing video because it gives you a better feel for the focus zone than the critical plane of focus. Focus magnification allows incredibly accurate focusing, particularly with short lenses (natural camera movement while manipulating controls with longer lenses eventually makes it harder to focus with magnification on, but of course the longer lens gives you magnification anyway...).

Using adapted manual lenses reduces metering mode choices to just two: manual and aperture priority auto. The most significant degradation of the SL's capability with adapted lenses comes from reduced metering range ... the body does not know anything about the lens or lens aperture so you lose a stop or so of range at the low end. This was improved upon with the latest firmware update (v2.2). It's not proven to be a difficulty even before that, you just have to realize that at some point all cameras' in-body metering ends.

The SL viewfinder is fantastic. Like all EVFs, it does have some limitations as you reach the extremes of usage (limitations on adaptive capability in extremely bright sun, limitations on refresh as ambient light gets extremely low, etc etc), but in general it is responsive with little lag, has plenty of dynamic range, and the resolution is excellent. It operates a bit differently in Manual exposure vs auto exposure modes, depending on the mode. Too hard to explain briefly, but after a bit of using it, it all makes sense and is easy to use.

Hope That Helps.™ :)

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi Godfrey,

Thank you so much for your detailed and very useful info. A few more questions for you:

1. Magnified view - can you move around once you are zoomed in?
Yes. Again, it operates a bit differently depending on what type of lens is fitted:

  • Dedicated and, I think, other adapted AF lenses on smart adapters remember the focus and magnification point in use between exposure and viewing/framing operations. So when you magnify for focus assist, the SL automatically goes to the point you were last using on the screen.
  • Adapted manual focus lenses always magnify to the center of the field of view. Once you are magnified, you use the joystick to pilot your way around the frame for focusing on details off center. Once focus magnification is cancelled (say by half-pressing the shutter release), the location is lost and you have to pilot your way there again if you re-enable magnification.

My personal shooting workflow makes the AF lens behavior a bit annoying except when I'm doing tabletop work, so I wish there was a way to defeat it. I also wish there was a one-press way to get the magnification point back to the center. I prefer the way the adapted manual focus lens behavior works most of the time.

2. The 24-90 zoom lens, assuming you use it, how is the geometric distortion (i.e. for architectural work, are the edges straight or have barrel or pinch cushion distortion)
The SL24-90 lens (and other dedicated SL lenses) has lens corrections automatically embedded in the raw files: compatible raw processors (Lightroom and Camera Raw, some others) and the on-board JPEG engine correct most rectilinear distortions. There's a little bit of residual aberration at some focal lengths and focus distances, but it's all 'simple' spherical correction at that point and very easy to dial out.

Frankly, I originally was going to buy the SL and use it exclusively with my R lens kit. But the more I use the SL24-90, the more I see that this lens is actually a better performer in most situations than even the best of my R prime lenses. So aside from my usual reluctance to use mid-range zooms on the basis of bulk and speed, I'm finding I use it more and more of the time. The image stabilization it provides is a nice addition and nets a couple of stops more hand-holdability.

The same goes for the SL90-280 lens ... but the advantage of its image stabilization is even more apparent. I've gotten to the point now that I'm wrapping up the sale/trade of all my 135mm and longer R lenses as well as my 'now extra' M-P, X, and CL Leica bodies to get one of these lenses. Its features and quality obsolete all the others, and I'll use it more because of the image stabilization.

Also can you use AF during video recording? Do you get peeking during recording or it can only be used while in standby mode.
I have barely gotten involved with using the SL's video capture at all yet and don't quite understand the AF system's settings in this context fully. I just pulled out the camera, set it to AFc and video, turned on video, and did a trivial test. I found that it seemed to do a bit of AF as I moved the viewpoint around, seemed a little slow and unresponsive. I could force it to reset the focus by half-pressing the shutter release while the capture was running. Enabling peaking on playback confirms that this worked. Now, I had the focus system set to a static model rather than a dynamic or tracking model ... exactly how it plays out when doing video recording will take more specific study of the manual and testing in specific situations to see what the behavior really is.

But the long and the short of it is that the AF with dedicated lenses remains active during video capture and peaking can be enabled too. There are several settings which affect AF system behavior in video capture mode that I have neither researched nor experimented with yet.

(I'm much more familiar with working motion capture the orthodox way: with manual focus, setting distances based on aperture and scale focus... The SL AF system with the lens in Manual focus mode allows precise setting of distance and focus zone by half pressing the shutter release and turning the focus ring and aperture wheel while looking at the top LCD display. It gives you precise distance, near and far focus points right there. Of course, with adapted manual lenses, you usually have DoF scales on the focus ring along with the aperture ring right there too.)

G
 
Hi Godfrey,

This is super helpful, thank you for the details and quick test!

Another question involves workflow with app and mobile devices.
How reliable is is it and what are the steps like?

With my phase one app I can take a shot, use the app to see composition, and zoom around to check focus right in the app. I can show clients or collaborators/model the image which helps with art direction. I can also trigger the camera from my phone as an additional connected device.

Whats it like with the Leica app?

S
Yes. Again, it operates a bit differently depending on what type of lens is fitted:

  • Dedicated and, I think, other adapted AF lenses on smart adapters remember the focus and magnification point in use between exposure and viewing/framing operations. So when you magnify for focus assist, the SL automatically goes to the point you were last using on the screen.
  • Adapted manual focus lenses always magnify to the center of the field of view. Once you are magnified, you use the joystick to pilot your way around the frame for focusing on details off center. Once focus magnification is cancelled (say by half-pressing the shutter release), the location is lost and you have to pilot your way there again if you re-enable magnification.

My personal shooting workflow makes the AF lens behavior a bit annoying except when I'm doing tabletop work, so I wish there was a way to defeat it. I also wish there was a one-press way to get the magnification point back to the center. I prefer the way the adapted manual focus lens behavior works most of the time.



The SL24-90 lens (and other dedicated SL lenses) has lens corrections automatically embedded in the raw files: compatible raw processors (Lightroom and Camera Raw, some others) and the on-board JPEG engine correct most rectilinear distortions. There's a little bit of residual aberration at some focal lengths and focus distances, but it's all 'simple' spherical correction at that point and very easy to dial out.

Frankly, I originally was going to buy the SL and use it exclusively with my R lens kit. But the more I use the SL24-90, the more I see that this lens is actually a better performer in most situations than even the best of my R prime lenses. So aside from my usual reluctance to use mid-range zooms on the basis of bulk and speed, I'm finding I use it more and more of the time. The image stabilization it provides is a nice addition and nets a couple of stops more hand-holdability.

The same goes for the SL90-280 lens ... but the advantage of its image stabilization is even more apparent. I've gotten to the point now that I'm wrapping up the sale/trade of all my 135mm and longer R lenses as well as my 'now extra' M-P, X, and CL Leica bodies to get one of these lenses. Its features and quality obsolete all the others, and I'll use it more because of the image stabilization.



I have barely gotten involved with using the SL's video capture at all yet and don't quite understand the AF system's settings in this context fully. I just pulled out the camera, set it to AFc and video, turned on video, and did a trivial test. I found that it seemed to do a bit of AF as I moved the viewpoint around, seemed a little slow and unresponsive. I could force it to reset the focus by half-pressing the shutter release while the capture was running. Enabling peaking on playback confirms that this worked. Now, I had the focus system set to a static model rather than a dynamic or tracking model ... exactly how it plays out when doing video recording will take more specific study of the manual and testing in specific situations to see what the behavior really is.

But the long and the short of it is that the AF with dedicated lenses remains active during video capture and peaking can be enabled too. There are several settings which affect AF system behavior in video capture mode that I have neither researched nor experimented with yet.

(I'm much more familiar with working motion capture the orthodox way: with manual focus, setting distances based on aperture and scale focus... The SL AF system with the lens in Manual focus mode allows precise setting of distance and focus zone by half pressing the shutter release and turning the focus ring and aperture wheel while looking at the top LCD display. It gives you precise distance, near and far focus points right there. Of course, with adapted manual lenses, you usually have DoF scales on the focus ring along with the aperture ring right there too.)

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
It's pretty much the same thing ... wireless connect over an existing WiFi network or set the camera up to be its own hot spot. I run iOS and the same app runs on both iPhone and iPad.

Operate the camera via its own controls or via the app. Touch screen to target focus (obviously you need to have dedicated AF lenses to do focus control from the app). After exposure, view it, scroll around, zoom in, etc. Download the JPEG to the device if you want ... at this time it doesn't transfer raw files. Use the app instead of a remote release. Etc.

It works very well. I've had no connectivity or drop out problems.

Leica also provides Leica Image Shuttle for the SL on macOS and Windows, which does similar things with a slightly different interface. This is a cable tethered app. It allows you to redirect raw capture files directly to the computer too. I have tried it but haven't used it too much yet.

G


Hi Godfrey,

This is super helpful, thank you for the details and quick test!

Another question involves workflow with app and mobile devices.
How reliable is is it and what are the steps like?

With my phase one app I can take a shot, use the app to see composition, and zoom around to check focus right in the app. I can show clients or collaborators/model the image which helps with art direction. I can also trigger the camera from my phone as an additional connected device.

Whats it like with the Leica app?

S
 
That's great to know. On the IQ3 back I find the wifi is weaker if battery level drops below half way.
I will probably use Capture One if I decide to tether :)

Thank you so much for all the help! :D

Steve

It's pretty much the same thing ... wireless connect over an existing WiFi network or set the camera up to be its own hot spot. I run iOS and the same app runs on both iPhone and iPad.

Operate the camera via its own controls or via the app. Touch screen to target focus (obviously you need to have dedicated AF lenses to do focus control from the app). After exposure, view it, scroll around, zoom in, etc. Download the JPEG to the device if you want ... at this time it doesn't transfer raw files. Use the app instead of a remote release. Etc.

It works very well. I've had no connectivity or drop out problems.

Leica also provides Leica Image Shuttle for the SL on macOS and Windows, which does similar things with a slightly different interface. This is a cable tethered app. It allows you to redirect raw capture files directly to the computer too. I have tried it but haven't used it too much yet.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Glad to help.

I haven't noticed the SL losing much if I work with a low battery. I tend to run the battery down to about 15-20%, then switch. I have three batteries ... one in the camera, fresh one in the bag, exhausted third on the charger essentially ... numbered and used in rotation. I've never run out of juice during a shooting session. On a long day's shoot, when you're using the camera regularly and not wasting time and battery playing with settings and doing a lot of chimping, I find I can get over 1000 exposures on a charge if I push it to the edge. More normally, 400-500 or thereabouts.

G

That's great to know. On the IQ3 back I find the wifi is weaker if battery level drops below half way.
I will probably use Capture One if I decide to tether :)

Thank you so much for all the help! :D

Steve
 
Amazing, thanks for the tips on battery rotation and shot number estimates!

I remember testing a shoot with our Nikon D3s - Live view vs. Normal - the battery usually runs forever but with live view can run pretty fast. Will be the same thing with Video on SL I suppose :rolleyes:

Glad to help.

I haven't noticed the SL losing much if I work with a low battery. I tend to run the battery down to about 15-20%, then switch. I have three batteries ... one in the camera, fresh one in the bag, exhausted third on the charger essentially ... numbered and used in rotation. I've never run out of juice during a shooting session. On a long day's shoot, when you're using the camera regularly and not wasting time and battery playing with settings and doing a lot of chimping, I find I can get over 1000 exposures on a charge if I push it to the edge. More normally, 400-500 or thereabouts.

G
 
Top