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Leica M10 vs SL

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I recently got my M10 silver and for the most part love it. However, now that I'm get older and reliant on specs for close up the M appeal without the EVF is a bit diminished. Have folks compared the M10 vs SL for image quality?

Im considering swapping to an SL. If someone is in desperate need of a silver M10 ping me (< 100 shots). NO issues with the camera - just that I've found myself as a user of progressive lenses I've had to order an EVF for the M10 for 28mm and wider.

Will keep my M246 Monochrom for now.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I recently got my M10 silver and for the most part love it. However, now that I'm get older and reliant on specs for close up the M appeal without the EVF is a bit diminished. Have folks compared the M10 vs SL for image quality?

Im considering swapping to an SL. If someone is in desperate need of a silver M10 ping me (< 100 shots). NO issues with the camera - just that I've found myself as a user of progressive lenses I've had to order an EVF for the M10 for 28mm and wider.

Will keep my M246 Monochrom for now.
FWIW Graham - I've been shooting with Leica M for about 20 years now and have quite a lot of M glass. The SL makes it easier to focus and shoot but lacks the out of frame still can see factor of the M ie the rangefinder factor which people love. I just got tired of compulsory manual focus and my eyes aren't what they used to be....so it was decision made for me - no more rangefinder m's in my life - so I looked for cameras I could use my M lenses with..Sony of course top of list. The EVF and general shooting experience with the small A7 bodies just didnt work for me...The SL came along ..and again FWIW - from a bloke that has shot with pretty much every system ever made - the SL is the best SLR type camera I have ever used and its EVF is best on market right now - way ahead of Sony A serties and bth Nikon and Canon mirror boxes.

I get a ridiculous high keeper ratio using a noctilux on the SL compared to M ( which quitre frankly was mission almost impossible in real world shooting like Street and candids which I do a lot of....- proof of how easy it is to use teh EVF and focus maginification and (fwiw) forcus peaking...if you understand that you will get some light fall off around the corners depending on shot and conditions...( easilly fixed in LR or C1) then you will see the best of M sharpness actually revealed when you shoot wide open - anbd every lux ever made was desihned to be shot wide open.

Both current zooms for teh Sl are just outstanding optics - especially teh 90-280. Both easilly handle a much higher megapixel chip. I use these when I need autofocus...which is superb - teh ergonomics of the cmera are just the best for my shooting style anyway - get a battery grip like I have if you have large hands.

As for colour pretty much even with any top line CMOS chip you can think of - with all the usual cook it like you want it if you insist for those who need to tweak it.

You'll find yourself thinking about Otus from Zeiss via adaptor - lenses like the (new formulation )Milvus 15mm/2.8 just outstanding as is the 135/2... the wide TriElmar is my favourite walk arond lens for landscapes and certain street..

Just a great camera which lets me keep and even improve the usefulness and utility of my M lenses - as well as add selective special glass from Zeiss if you are that way inclined. Auto lenses rom Leica are being rolled out...but the zooms for autofocus are just fantastic.

Sorry mate - dont want your M10.

Cheers
Pete
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Pete

I have WATE, 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 right now and also the entire A7RII series and lenses but I have no love for the Sony. Not that it's bad but I just have never really connected with it and usually end up using my Canon TSE lenses with it.

What you described sounds like me.
 

RMR

New member
PeterA your comments are spot on for me. I've had an M240P for a couple of years and now with the SL it's so much easier in regards to focusing. I wish it were a little smaller and perhaps 36Mp but the SL is a great camera. Oh and the 24-90 is stellar!
Bob
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The Leica SL is probably the best full-featured camera system body I've ever owned. It works brilliantly with all my R lenses, all my M lenses, its own SL lenses, and with the Nikkors I have as well.

I've kept one M ... an M-D typ 262 ... and a few lenses for it so that I have a small, light, minimalistic camera for some situations when I want it. The SL is what I use for everything else. They're perfect complements, and I can swap any of my M lenses onto the SL when I want to.

G
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Did you try the M10 with the Visoflex 020? If it's similar to the Q's magnification and peaking, it's quite good. I've considered the SL, but the form factor of the M is perfect for my style. PM with a price for the M10.
 

sjg284

Member
Re: M10 EVF
I used that EVF on the X 113.
It is adequate.
It is nowhere near the SL EVF by a mile.
The EVF in a little $700 Panasonic is better.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Pete

I have WATE, 28/1.4, 50/1.4 and 75/2 right now and also the entire A7RII series and lenses but I have no love for the Sony. Not that it's bad but I just have never really connected with it and usually end up using my Canon TSE lenses with it.

What you described sounds like me.
Well Graham you already have some brilliant glass in M form to use with an SL - however choosing a camera is a very individual thing - one either likes holding and using or one doesn't - I do suggest you give one a proper try out before buying if you are in position to do so. Good luck with your decision making. btw The hadgrip is most useful when mounting the superb 90-280.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I'm prepared to give it a college try. I've found that removing my progressive glasses when i shoot makes a HUGE difference, as does perhaps transitioning from right eye centric to left eye. I can see the frame lines SO much easier now plus the surrounding area which is the essence of M photography.

Going to stick at it for a while. I have no financial imperative to change. (I'm broke already :D)

I do love the M10 as the M digital I've always wanted. That said, the SL + 24-90, 90-280, 50/1.4 ASPH SL, plus my WATE does sound like a perfect system.

Mega pixels - something I'm not short of, actually mean very little to me.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Did you try the M10 with the Visoflex 020? If it's similar to the Q's magnification and peaking, it's quite good. I've considered the SL, but the form factor of the M is perfect for my style. PM with a price for the M10.
Waiting for my EVF to arrive. It might change everything in the same way the EVF-2 did with my M246 monochrom and various wide lenses.
 

Maggie O

Active member
I'm a bit confused about needing the EVF. Why not just use the Live View on the screen? It sounds pretty sweet:

The Live View function of the Leica M10 offers two convenient focusing method. Focus Peaking automatically marks sharply focused edges as coloured lines and Live View offers the ability to magnify the subject on the monitor screen. In the Leica M10, the visibility of these contrasting lines has been improved against the previous generation and now enables even more convenient focusing assessment to ensure images with outstanding sharpness
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I don't know, f/8 and zone focusing compensates for aging eye sight. Just slap a roll of Tri-X in that M10 and nothing will look out of focus...
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
RF focusing isn't the challenge for me. It's the framing when using specs for 28mm in particular. I've been used to being able to see all of the framelines before I transitioned to progressive lens wear and so I'm having to adjust.

I know, I know ... 1st world problems :facesmack:
 

D&A

Well-known member
RF focusing isn't the challenge for me. It's the framing when using specs for 28mm in particular. I've been used to being able to see all of the framelines before I transitioned to progressive lens wear and so I'm having to adjust.

I know, I know ... 1st world problems :facesmack:
Yes, progressive lens wear is bad enough affecting the ability to seeing the edges of the optical viewfinder of a M rangefinder, but combine that with floaters I recently developed in my focusing eye and its a double wammy. In my case it's analogous to seeing 3-5 small black flies constantly buzzing around in both my peripheral and frontal vision. When it first developed it, I kept swatting them away thinking they were real! Another forum member I converse with has been experiencing the same. All of these eyes issues are simply a pain, especially while trying to be "real" photographers :ROTFL:
Hope the EVF results in being the solution for you.

Dave (D&A)
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
RF focusing isn't the challenge for me. It's the framing when using specs for 28mm in particular. I've been used to being able to see all of the framelines before I transitioned to progressive lens wear and so I'm having to adjust.

I know, I know ... 1st world problems :facesmack:
Um, uh ... Well ...
I've been wearing glasses since I was in fourth grade. Transitioning to progressives became essential about a dozen years ago, when I realized I could no longer see well enough close up to read. I've never seen the 28mm frame lines in an M finder without moving my head around, and many SLRs had too little eye relief for me to ever see their whole frame at a glance. I have some floaters too ... they're a natural result of age and banging your head into the ground a few times by falling off a bicycle or motorcycle.

None of it has ever gotten in my way. I can see as well as ever to focus an M or an SLR or the SL. I prefer focusing manually because, crappy eyesight, progressives and all, I still get better, more consistently in-focus results that way over *any* AF system. Not to say that I don't appreciate when AF works well ... and the SL's AF does work very well. But none of the AF systems I've ever used on any camera nails the focus perfectly, the way I want it, and consistently.

Don't let small issues like this get in your way. Learn how to work around them. You can do it! Some cameras are indeed simply too hard to focus manually, but I'd never consider an M to be one of them.

G
 

D&A

Well-known member
Godfrey wrote about floaters >>>"they're a natural result of age and banging your head into the ground a few times by falling off a bicycle or motorcycle."<<<

Yes, a consequence of aging but not a lot to do with falling off a bicycle, motorcycle etc. In my case, probably/maybe because I kept poking my finger in my left eye each day adjusting the contact in that eye for more than 35 years. There is a myriad of reasons. I still get along with focusing a M rangefinder, even with using the 28mm frame lines on recent digital M bodies...but it also must be remembered and respected, that everyone who deals with eye issues, regardless of what they may be, (even if the issues are similar to another), can be affected quite differently. Thus one individual can adjust or compensate whereas others may or may not. Overcoming even minor disabilities is very individualistic much the same as those that are severely overweight where the solution for each may be quite different. What may be easy for one to overcome might be equally hard for another.

In any case, most all of us can agree in the joy when we are able to use our M rangefinders in a mostly unfettered manner.

Dave (D&A)
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
Godfrey wrote about floaters >>>"they're a natural result of age and banging your head into the ground a few times by falling off a bicycle or motorcycle."<<<

Yes, a consequence of aging but not a lot to do with falling off a bicycle, motorcycle etc. ...
My ophthalmologist feels otherwise, but I agree that aging and other factors are probably the larger cause.
No matter, they're there and I've been living with them for years now.

G
 

daf

Member
RF focusing isn't the challenge for me. It's the framing when using specs for 28mm in particular. I've been used to being able to see all of the framelines before I transitioned to progressive lens wear and so I'm having to adjust.

I know, I know ... 1st world problems :facesmack:
;)
So maybe you could just buy an external finder...for15-21mm the leica universal wide finder is fantastic, big but such a clear view...i love it. But i find the frame of 24 and 28 too small... i heard good things about zeiss 28finder but never look trough...maybe having a look at the leica 28 can be a good idea
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Yes, I already have the frankenfinder and its fine but obviously adds a lot of bulk to the camera and only helps with framing and I still have to focus through the body.

I'm waiting on the EVF to arrive - that should solve both.
 
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