Leica, RIP

[Red735i]

I sent my Monochrom camera in for a (free) corroded sensor replacement in August.
I was told, in late September, that it was done and it was scheduled to ship back to me while we were on vacation.. so I delayed the shipment.
I called today to find out status, and was told it
a) Was not done
b) Leica is still waiting on parts
c) That the turnaround time for Monochrom is always 20 + weeks ( first time I was given any repair time frame)
d) There was no commitment to rush
e) No trade in towards a CMOS Monochrom was ever made
f) No offer (ever) to loan me a camera until my camera was repaired

Do they wonder why anyone would buy a camera from them after this kind of mind boggling behavior?

I don’t want to hear about how someone got their camera back in a week, fully repaired. My experience is different….. and always has been.

The words.. abused, terrible, and worse come to mind…..
Would I buy another camera from Leica?

You pushed me to the limit, Leica. The love affair is over.

RIP

 

[Fleica]

I'm curious to know if you purchased your camera second hand or through certified Leica dealer. All off my camera repairs are handled through my dealer and I have not had any issues.

 

[richardman]

Ah, that sucks. If you want to throw that piece of junk away, I can do it for you...

 

[docmoore]

Not sure of your history with Leica ...

It is what we have all faced for years ... either resolve it and stay or find a more compelling camera that is a commodity.

I think the key is to have a pleasurable backup camera for the times yours is on holiday in the Motherland.

Original Monochrom is hard to surpass ... many prefer it to the CMOS MM. But now that Leica has limited their exposure to the sensor and lens foibles it may separate the true believers from those who
are somewhat risk adverse. Closest you will come is one of the Achromatic Phase backs or a RED Epic Mono ... both at a much higher cost initially and subsequently.

Personally I left the fold ... partially ... still have a Q.

But going forward ... Leica will buy a few sensors ... the minimum order I presume to keep the cameras afloat ... which means that periodically they will wait for parts.

I suggest that you review your MM pictures and decide if you can do without the camera. Sounds like you have but if not serious consideration as little comes close to the MM1 files ... nothing.

Bob

 

[Red735i]

I do not, nor never have believed they are replacing the sensor. The problem is the glass plate covering the sensor that is corroding. I believe they are only replacing the cover glass plate. That is what Leica did with my M9 ( the cover plate fell off and they replaced only the glass. not the sensor.) It takes KolariVision 3 days to replace a glass cover plate ...... It is not a big deal. 20 weeks? More?????? absurd.

Does it bother me that there was a problem? Not too much. What really bothers me is the way Leica NJ are handling my ( and others, apparently) requests for information, and time it is taking to actually do the work. Being lied to about work is the absolute worst thing you can do to a customer. For this, they can not be forgiven.

I have tried to work with NJ to get correct information, but they seem unwilling to answer truthfully. For this they can not be forgiven.

Yes, bought new from a official USA dealer.....

As I said, RIP. I will not buy another body from Leica.... and since I have a good stable of lenses, I will have no reason to buy any lenses, either.

They have lost a customer....

 

[PeterA]

I do not, nor never have believed they are replacing the sensor. The problem is the glass plate covering the sensor that is corroding. I believe they are only replacing the cover glass plate. That is what Leica did with my M9 ( the cover plate fell off and they replaced only the glass. not the sensor.) It takes KolariVision 3 days to replace a glass cover plate ...... It is not a big deal. 20 weeks? More?????? absurd.

Does it bother me that there was a problem? Not too much. What really bothers me is the way Leica NJ are handling my ( and others, apparently) requests for information, and time it is taking to actually do the work. Being lied to about work is the absolute worst thing you can do to a customer. For this, they can not be forgiven.

I have tried to work with NJ to get correct information, but they seem unwilling to answer truthfully. For this they can not be forgiven.

Yes, bought new from a official USA dealer.....

As I said, RIP. I will not buy another body from Leica.... and since I have a good stable of lenses, I will have no reason to buy any lenses, either.

They have lost a customer....

FYI - it took Leica Germany 3 months to fix my MM & M9. No tsurprised to hear of delays for parts - the major fix programme probably ended for most sufferers a year ago...

 

[DB5]

It took over 6 months to get my sensor corrosion replacement back.

RIP indeed.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Agree 100% that you should give up on Leica and never ever buy anything from them . That type of treatment would take the joy out of photography for anyone .

After retiring several years ago I now had more time on my hands and realized how poorly most company treat their customers . In fact the number of companies we buy from that have good service ..I could count on one hand .

Leica NJ has been a disaster now for over 10 years and the worst is they LIE consistently . They have no idea where your prized camera lens etc is in the service workflow and they don t care one bit . Not sure where they ended up with their SAP installation which appeared headed to a complete failure . It is possible without much effort to allow customers to track their own work orders .....you could do this with orders in Germany back when the M8 was having problems . NEVER EVER SEND ANYTHING TO NJ .

The worst situations are when the item requires a part from Germany .....your order is out of sight out of mind . Any item that requires shipment to germany loses 6 weeks ..3 weeks to ship it and 3 weeks to ship it back .

There are methods to get around all this and I have used them on dozens of items over the past 24 months . Have had 9 Leica S lenses repaired for the AF ..paid for one because it was over 5 years old .. a modest $275 . Had a M9 and two MONO s replace sensors . Arranged a trade in of My s2 with a bad sensor for a S 007 at a fair price . My dealer cares about my business and I try to keep him happy by being fair and realizing his stake in the transaction .

I have found that the Manufacturer(LEICA) could care less if existing customers are happy ..once I realized that I started to develop a win win strategy that works . This has been covered inn detail many many times . :banghead:

This is not an excuse for Leica s behavior nor a slight on your frustration ....only offering a solution that doesn t require never buying Leica again .

 

[jdphoto]

I've been tempted by the MM, but have decided the ultimate black and white will come from the film versions only. I've been hesitant to go back to Leica because of customer service issues and the S debacle. If your truly done with Leica wait for the repair and paperwork and sell it to fund an M3, M6, MP etc.

This link is fun to read...


A Leica M6 and Tri-X v. the Leica Monochrom | Leicaphilia

 

[Vivek]

My one time experience with Leica, oddly, has been very positive. They did offer an upgrade possibility for the MM. I did not take it and led me another path (will disclose what I decided in due course).

I come from film.

I transitioned to digital because of the hybrid work flow involving scanning. Film got killed by that.

Leica MM, Sony NEX-5NM and the future digital monochrome cameras are far more versatile and useful than the still cases full of Techpan and others i have (offers, anyone?, i need to buy some SD cards and SSD storage.).

 

[PeterA]

It is a shock to realise one can pay huge premiums for premium brands in the expectation that cash outlay is somehow related to quality of manufacture. I've had issues with Canon/Nikon in terms of basic functionality being compromised from factory with misaligned sensors or autofocus that just doesn't work - not to mention MF backs that need calibration to the micrometer - which is impossible...isn't it strange to read in forums about the need to 'test' lenses so you get a 'good copy'? What about Sony A7r and its clunky shutter? The Nikon 800 which had focus issues - I can testify to many frustrating hours wasted missing shots trying to use that clunker!

Sadly - there are no 'safe' bets to be made with any manufacturer.The declarative "i'm exiting <brandX> because of <insert your problem> has been a common meme on here though and it seems that LeicaNJ is a major culprit of acting with a lack of care...

I've come to the conclusion over the years that customers these days have become beta testers in far too many new products - and I think competition and consumer demand for fast product cycles is delivering not really ready for market product - irrespective of how much money is being asked for.

I doubt Leica specified a cover glass that developed rusty smears over time as part of the MM/M9 specs, nor did they specify an autofocus mechanism with 2cent plastic gear that was likely to shred over time....all it takes is some OEM supplier to get something wrong and the end user is in a world of pain. To Leica's credit though- they ultimately fessed up and provided owners with a replacement fix path. I dont think Leica will ever recover from what seems to be a disaster with their S line of lenses ...perhaps the company has learned from this sad episode and maybe this explains why new prime lenses for the leica SL are taking so long to come to market- maybe there is a legitimate test programme now in place - one can only hope.

 

[thompsonkirk]

Agree re: RIP – died from poor customer service.

5 month wait for sensor replacement – and it wasn't for corrosion, it simply cracked. Equal time just to replace a defective Frankenfinder with a new one. And two bodies and two lenses needing service because of poor quality control.

Leica NJ really terrible service was my reason for giving up on them after being a customer since 1973.

Still loyal to Mandler lenses + MATE and WATE (AF on A7rII with Kolari mod and TAP).

Kirk

 

[daf]

My french leica shop arrange me a loaner for any leica parts which need to go for repair, until i get it back
And he is doing a amazing job at getting it back very quickly ...
So the key is probably to find a good dealer !

 

[Stuart Richardson]

At the risk of stirring the pot, can I point out that they are replacing the sensor for free in a camera that is presumably long out of warranty...
While it is regrettable that it is taking so long, they are still doing it, which is more than many manufacturers do. I had Hasselblad charge me 1000 euros for "preventative maintenance" on a brand new X5 scanner that was sent in for a warranty repair at a cost of 400 euros shipping on my own expense. My experience with Leica is that repairs have nearly always been slow (not as slow as you mention), but they have also stood by their gear and rarely charged me for a repair if the item was dysfunctional in some way that was clearly not my fault. For example, they replaced the DX code reader in my M7 several years out from its warranty, giving it a free CLA at the time. They have replaced camera bodies for me without much hesitation when they had sensor problems. They also fixed my M9's sensor for free, and gave it a CLA for 100 euros. The camera was at least six years old at the time. The repair took a few weeks. I have always dealt directly with the factory, and I am on their professional program (when they remember that they have one), but I just wanted to write in the thread that I have had a different experience than you. I do not mean to deny your experience, only offer another take.

 

[Godfrey]

A: My Leicas have been very reliable. Only had one newish camera serviced by Leica NJ a couple of years back (four way pad had become flakey) and it was returned in two weeks time, end to end, completely fixed and perfect.

B: Eh? If you're not getting what you want, go elsewhere.

Leica has done pretty well by me, but as stated, I've not really required them to do much other than supply me the products I wanted. With luck, that will continue to be the case.

G

 

[doug]

Eight MONTHS to return my 280/4 APO, telling me there are no parts and smashing the rear cap, was the final nail in the coffin.

DAG repaired the lens in a few weeks. It needed three screws. Love the image quality, detest the "service". For myself the image quality / aggravation balance has tipped.

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Re: Leica, repairs

I've sent in M8s for the .2 upgrade, and I think one of those had failed, dropped an M9 (banged up the lens pretty badly), done an M9 corroded sensor replacement, and tightened up the ISO wheel on my M10. I'm up to 8 M bodies and 2 SLs at present, and use about half of them still. The only repair that required more than 2 months was when I scratched the rear element of my 28-Elmarit asph by using an older model back cap. (Hah, passport warranty covers even stupid stuff like that!) I sent an E-Bay Hasselblad SWC that failed back to Hasselblad for repair and didn't see it again for about a year (but it has been fine since).

I do agree that DAG is a better go-to resource for R equipment. I had a Sherry Krauter CLA that fixed many things on my old M2, and it has been fine for the last ten years. Speed is not the critical issue for me, since this gear doesn't really get obsolete.

 

[John Black]

Since you bought new (Frank, the original poster), I'd get on the phone with your dealer. If you're genuinely interested in working out a deal on M-246 or something else, then you're in a good position to swap it for something ---

a) they haven't actually done anything with your camera, so a change now doesn't impact anything
b) you've been skrewed over on the wait time, so you've got the sympathy card to play
c) there's an official Leica corporate program in place for this

Lean on your dealer to make it happen.

 

[topoxforddoc]

When I sent my M9 directly back to Wetzlar in July, I subsequently received this from Leica. so you can upgrade your CCD Monochrom to a M246.

Charlie

 

[Charles2]

... I have a good stable of lenses...

Time to get a Fuji X-Pro2 and a generic adapter.