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Thread: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

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    Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Hi!
    I have the Leica PC-Super-Angulon-R 2,8/28mm, the lens is good but my 35mm Summicron is much more better in micro contrast, like structures of wood or gras for example. Also there is always some distortion when shifted up to 9mm or more.

    Now I found a Contax 35mm F/2.8 PC Distagon T* on eBay. There are not much of performance examples on the net. So I'm asking here for some experiences with this lens, maybe with a Leica M?

    Thanks everybody.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    I had one, sold it to finance a new lens and regret it now ..
    It is a good lens, the best 35mm shift lens! sharp with good microcontraste, it need from f8-f11 when fully shifted to get good corner. Mine was sharper than my 24tseII
    It only suffer little CA easily removable, and a little barrel distorsion also easy to correct when needed.
    Try to get one with the filter/hood ring..

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    Mine was sharper than my 24tseII
    Did you use it on a Leica M?

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by usm View Post
    Did you use it on a Leica M?
    No, only on the sony a7r (which is more demanding than the m240)
    Never tried any t/s option on my leica ... in fact, when i'm shooting architecture with my leica, i rely on my superelmar+summicron and C1 keystone.
    For info, capture as load a lot of new leica lens profil in the last version...

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    (which is more demanding than the m240)
    Why? Or what do you mean?

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by usm View Post
    Why? Or what do you mean?

    There is more pixel (36mp), and the microlenses are not (symmetrical) wide angle friendly ... for exemple all wide leica lenses are much better on the leica than the sony ... so, if a wide is working ok on the sony we can expect it to work much better on the leica.
    The 35 pc distagon is not a symmetrical lens, that why it is performing well on the sony, and so it should be very good on the leica, but of course this needs to be confirmed !
    In any case, if it is not working well, you'll probably be able to sell it the same price as you bought it.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Had the 35 Contax some years back -don’t recall too much ‘cept that is was very good, t, there really was little difference, except the it seemed a bit too big and didn’t do enough. But it has a very good reputation.

    The PC 28 varies a lot by example. Get a good one. I was looking for T/S for an MM and tried one out. Without live view, it’s focus by guessing but didn’t mind that.

    Did a comparison of the 28PC against SEM 21, and found on a 17”wide print, there was very little diffference between the two in the final image (fully shifted 28,cropped 21 to match), except the 28PC had slightly lower contrast. Really no difference. For larger prints the resolution shortcoming of the cropped image from the 21 would be a factor.

    I kept the test prints for years to stop revisiting the idea of the 28, and instead got the very good 21. 20 years of advances in lens design (with the 21) largely overcame the shift advantages of the PC lens.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The PC 28 varies a lot by example. Get a good one.

    Did a comparison of the 28PC against SEM 21, and found on a 17”wide print, there was very little diffference between the two in the final image (fully shifted 28,cropped 21 to match), except the 28PC had slightly lower contrast. Really no difference. For larger prints the resolution shortcoming of the cropped image from the 21 would be a factor.

    I kept the test prints for years to stop revisiting the idea of the 28, and instead got the very good 21..
    How can I know if it is a good one? I compared it to my 35mm Summicron asph and both had strong CA in the corners.
    I also use the 21 SEM, actually mostly for indoor.
    I like the shifting process as a tool for composing the image.

    To you still have your test files? Maybe you can send them to me for comparison?

    Greetings.

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    I wish there were decent options for TILT lenses to be used with the M240/M10. The Arsat/Arax/Photex lenses seem to be lacking in quality and the Schneider lenses are huge and very expensive.

    Any other TILT options?

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I wish there were decent options for TILT lenses to be used with the M240/M10.....

    Any other TILT options?
    What about just using a small linear shifting platform on your tripod. There are several options available at different price points at RRS and on Ebay.

    This way tou could use whatever lens you want. Plus I would guess that the platform would occupy the same or less space in your bag.

    Hugo

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    This way tou could use whatever lens you want. Plus I would guess that the platform would occupy the same or less space in your bag.



    Sorry, just realized that you said “Tilt” and not “Shift”. My suggestion would obviously only work if you just wanted to shift.

    Hugo

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I wish there were decent options for TILT lenses to be used with the M240/M10. The Arsat/Arax/Photex lenses seem to be lacking in quality and the Schneider lenses are huge and very expensive.

    Any other TILT options?
    You can use all canon ts lenses(17/24/45/90), leica ts, some Nikon ts, the contax35pc, the old olympus 24 and 35mm, and there is a samyang ... but not sure it make sens, might be better fittied on a sony a7.

    And i read somewhere about a rumored kipon/iberit 18mm for leica M, but this was long ago...

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    You can use all canon ts lenses(17/24/45/90), leica ts, some Nikon ts, the contax35pc, the old olympus 24 and 35mm, and there is a samyang ... but not sure it make sens, might be better fittied on a sony a7.

    And i read somewhere about a rumored kipon/iberit 18mm for leica M, but this was long ago...
    I don't think the Canon, Nikon and Samyang TS lenses have aperture rings and I don't want to have to pre-set with another camera. Are you sure the other lenses you mention are TILT lenses?

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by HL4x10BW View Post
    This way tou could use whatever lens you want.
    Sorry, just realized that you said “Tilt” and not “Shift”. My suggestion would obviously only work if you just wanted to shift.

    Hugo
    Actually the thread is about shifting but any way what did you mean with “several options at RRS”?

    I was checking the Mini Cambo and Arca universalis option but I need a good 28mm or at least 35mm lens with a large image circle for that. But the Rosenstock and Schneider lenses are not useable because of their Flange to lens end distance. Except the old Schneider 28mm L (not the new XL), but this lens seems to be not very good. There is also the Schneider 28mm 4.5 TS lens who’s based on same construction as the Schneider 28mm L Lens. I would give this lens a try if will found one.

    Still looking for a Zeiss 35mm pc ...

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I don't think the Canon, Nikon and Samyang TS lenses have aperture rings and I don't want to have to pre-set with another camera. Are you sure the other lenses you mention are TILT lenses?
    Both the Nikon and Samyang 24 T/S have aperture rings. It's only the Canon's that you need to preset on a Canon body.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    All lenses have an aperture ring. Only Samyang’s is operable manually. For Canon and Nikon one needs their own bodies to change the apertures.

    (Nikon went Canon way with their E lenses. There is zero difference between them now. One less thing for the Nikonistas is feel special.)

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Both the Nikon and Samyang 24 T/S have aperture rings. It's only the Canon's that you need to preset on a Canon body.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    All lenses have an aperture ring. Only Samyang’s is operable manually. For Canon and Nikon one needs their own bodies to change the apertures.

    (Nikon went Canon way with their E lenses. There is zero difference between them now. One less thing for the Nikonistas is feel special.)
    Thanks Vivek, I read up on the Nikon and despite having an aperture ring it indeed only controls the electronic aperture via the camera . So it operates the same as the Canon 24 TS, but that one doesn't have an aperture ring at all and aperture can only be set with the dials on a Canon body.

    Only advantage of the Nikon is that (as long as you don't turn the aperture ring) you have a visible memory of which aperture it was at when taken off the camera body.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Thanks peoples.

    So the Samyang is the only TILT lens with an aperture ring that can be set manually. I was hoping for a longer focal length, preferably around 50mm.

    Picky, aren't I?


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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Thanks peoples.

    So the Samyang is the only TILT lens with an aperture ring that can be set manually. I was hoping for a longer focal length, preferably around 50mm.

    Picky, aren't I?

    Allright... so you can pick up any 6x45/6x6/6x7, 45/50/55mm and add a mirex/kipon Tilt shift adaptater to eos, then an eos to m adptater...too big then instead of FF+mdflenses you can go with apsc+FF lenses.
    For exemple a sigma 35 art in nikon mount+a novoflex aperture(yes you can) adapter to eos+an hcam master(tiltshift) and a sony 24mp or even a leica tl2 and you're done

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    To usm :
    The old 28 pc schneider has a very bad mustache distorsion ... very difficult ro correct without a good profil... not a good option if you plan any architecture shot. But might be ok for landscape

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by daf View Post
    allright... So you can pick up any 6x45/6x6/6x7, 45/50/55mm and add a mirex/kipon tilt shift adaptater to eos, then an eos to m adptater...too big then instead of ff+mdflenses you can go with apsc+ff lenses.
    For exemple a sigma 35 art in nikon mount+a novoflex aperture(yes you can) adapter to eos+an hcam master(tiltshift) and a sony 24mp or even a leica tl2 and you're done
    :rotfl:

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    OK, anyone using the Arsat/Arax/Photex 50mm t/s lens?

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Below are the two shots with a MM, one with a 28PC lens shifted to the max (diagonal to the upper right) and the other with the 21 SEM, both at f11, ISO 320. Apart from resolution, there is only a wee bit to tell them apart.

    The overall image size of a 21 cropped to match the 28? The 28 is 3468 x 5212, and the 21 cropped to match is

    Here is the 28PC, full image (3468 x 5212):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	28 pc f11 iso 320 sml.jpg 
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    then the 21 cropped to match (2554 x 3862):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	21 crp to 28PC sml.jpg 
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ID:	130915

    Then an upper corner 100% crop of the 21 and 28. First the 28:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	28PC 100% crop.jpg 
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ID:	130917
    and the 21. With less resolution the 21 is a bit smaller at 100%. The 21 is a later lens and is a tad sharper (see far right side bricks).
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	21 100% crop.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	20.3 KB 
ID:	130916

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Thanks peoples.

    So the Samyang is the only TILT lens with an aperture ring that can be set manually. I was hoping for a longer focal length, preferably around 50mm.

    Picky, aren't I?

    I have a Canon 35/2.8 TS for FD mount that works well, and is good optically. It was (and is) way better than the Nikon 35PC, Minolta 35 and Olympus 35. In fact, optically it's pretty close to the Zeiss, and it has a larger image circle. I bought it in the early 70's and had it converted to Konica Autoreflex mount as that had a number of operational advantages over Nikon and Canon at the time. Now I use it with adapters on a Sony A7RII mostly, but it does work on Leica M. The M is just not the best body for it, in part because the throat is both small and a little bit further from the sensor plane than on the Sony, which of course is not ideal either.

    The 28 Super-Angulon, either from Leica or Schneider is not that good shifted, but the biggest issue is its distortion. Almost as bad as the Pentax 28 shift.

    Just in case you're considering it, the Canon 45 TSE isn't worth getting. Fortunately they're replacing it finally.

    I also use Canon 24 TSE II, 17 TSE and 90 TSE. And a Mamiya 55mm/4 shift. I still have a Nikon 28PC, but that is for a Roundshot and is not that useful on a Leica or Sony.
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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Thanks Geoff, thanks henningw,

    After studying a lot of lens data sheets I found out that using the Hasselblad 28mm 4.5 lens correctin in Capture1 for the Leica R PC lens brings good results.

    The Canon FD 35mm TS option is new for me. Which lens, Canon FD 35mm TS vs the Zeiss Contax 35mm PC, would you prefer for shooting architecture and landscape ?

    Thanks!

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Sorry the thread title caused me to actually laugh out loud. Funnier that there are legitimate replies. I understand the situation and am sympathetic but it just seems absurd to be using a shift lens with an M. Good for you getting maximum utility out your camera!

    My take is that if you’re taking the time to use a shift lens then you might as well do a stitch with your best longer lens. Use the best optics and stitch to go as wide as you need, especially since I doubt you have complex foregrounds.
    Last edited by Frankly; 2 Days Ago at 06:27.

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    Re: Shift lenses for Leica M (240)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly View Post
    Sorry the thread title caused me to actually laugh out loud. Funnier that there are legitimate replies. I understand the situation and am sympathetic but it just seems absurd to be using a shift lens with an M. Good for you getting maximum utility out your camera!
    Frankly if someone had told me five years ago I'd be using Leica M cameras exclusively I wouldn't have believed them. If someone had told me I'd be using them for the range of disciplines I'm using them for now I would have had them certified.
    Last edited by KeithL; 2 Days Ago at 10:51.
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