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M10

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Vivek

Guest
airfrogusmc said:
My so called blind faith is in equipment that suits my vision and the way I work at that moment in time which when I do settle on a system doesn't change often. I shot with my 500 C/Ms for a couple of decades and I still have my Canon F-1s.
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I believe you though you could not figure out that this was shot from the waist level.

And I still do not see what that image shows that an M 10 or even an original MM can't do it terms of DR or whatever else you were trying to show.
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Not possible given the light levels available at that time. This was not zone focused or shot blindly (“hip shooting”). Also, it is not a shot of store dummies or a poster.
 
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airfrogusmc

Well-known member
Vivek said:
I believe you though you could not figure out that this was shot from the waist level.



Not possible given the light levels available at that time. This was not zone focused or shot blindly (“hip shooting”). Also, it is not a shot of store dummies or a poster.
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Huh? What has that got to do with DR? How do you know what I can figure out. I did know it was shot from a low angle but what does that have to do with DR also I never commented on how the image was shot or not or its aesthetic values.

My comments have been addressing false info about the M 10 probably by people that have never shot with one and if they have they have not worked with the files. To think it is not good above 1600 ISO wouldn't be a statement that is in line with my experience with the camera. Shoot with it a lot at 3200. 6400 and 12, 400 ISO. I also showed that I don't need more than 24 MPs to really make large prints and if you do need the extra MPs I would recommend medium format. I always question the motives of threads like these. If you like sony rock on. They are fine cameras but does trying to put down another brand make the Sony better? How could it? The M10 is an entirely different camera and system. Apples and oranges.
 
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Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
Regards the B&W image that was posted made by the Sony RX1R II: It's a rather unremarkable photograph, Vivek. Overly complex and over-processed, with harsh contrasts and almost cartoonish expressions. I find it hard to look at, it hurts my eyes.

This is, of course, my personal judgement of the photo without even a thought to the equipment that made it. It doesn't satisfy my notions of what I want in a photograph at all. If that's what you're aiming for, however, and you've found a camera that produces it for you easily, by golly: go forward with that camera.

Again: Why do you choose to talk about the Leica M10, SL, and any other of the Leicas that you've descried over the past couple of years, and associated DXO reports, if you are so happy with your cameras and want so little to do with the Leicas? This is what I don't understand.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Godfrey said:
Again: Why do you choose to talk about the Leica M10, SL, and any other of the Leicas that you've descried over the past couple of years, and associated DXO reports, if you are so happy with your cameras and want so little to do with the Leicas? This is what I don't understand.
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Not sure whatever that means? ???

Here is what I recall about the past two years: out of action for nearly an year then I take a look at my MM and I find this:
https://www.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=31901&c=259



Sent it in a few months later for a CCD replacement and it took Leica a few more months to send it back.
 
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Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
Vivek said:
Not sure whatever that means? ???

Here is what I recall about the past two years: out of action for nearly an year then I take a look at my MM and I find this:
https://www.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=31901&c=259



Sent it in a few months later for a CCD replacement and it took Leica a few more months to send it back.
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So what? You had a sensor failure. Big deal. I did too, although not as dramatic a failure. Sent it in, decided to upgrade, deal done .. I was back in business. I don't understand the vitriol. It's a machine: machines fail. Fix and move on.
 
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airfrogusmc

Well-known member
I had both my MM and M-E sensor replaced. Leica did the right thing and fixed it.

I was shooting for NATO in 2012 here in Chicago and had a complete shutter failure on one of my Canons. I had far more issues with my Canons than i have had with my Leicas even with the sensor replacements. Mechanical things fail.
 
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Vivek

Guest
”Machines fail”. “Mechanical things fail”

Is that Leica speak for design flaw?

M8 (magenta madness), M9, MM, ME (sensor cover exfloiation)- design flaws.

Not predicting or precluding what issues may crop up in others. These are premium cameras with premium price tags.

DXO link indicates yet another factor.

Have a good 2018, fellas!
 
Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
Vivek said:
”Machines fail”. “Mechanical things fail”
Is that Leica speak for design flaw?
M8 (magenta madness), M9, MM, ME (sensor cover exfloiation)- design flaws.
Not predicting or precluding what issues may crop up in others. These are premium cameras with premium price tags.
DXO link indicates yet another factor.
Have a good 2018, fellas!
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Why do you care if you're already so freekin' bitter about it? It's the past, let it go. It's apparent that you cannot be rational and objective about these machines.

You already suggested in this very thread that your Sony cameras have experienced more failures*and service necessities than I've ever seen with any cameras, and certainly not with the Leicas I've owned, either film or digital.

Time to give it up and forget talking to you about it. I'll unsubscribe from this thread now.

G
 
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airfrogusmc

Well-known member
Vivek said:
”Machines fail”. “Mechanical things fail”

Is that Leica speak for design flaw?

M8 (magenta madness), M9, MM, ME (sensor cover exfloiation)- design flaws.

Not predicting or precluding what issues may crop up in others. These are premium cameras with premium price tags.

DXO link indicates yet another factor.

Have a good 2018, fellas!
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So this is what this thread is about? You are angry at Leica for their Kodak sensor failure. And yes they are premium cameras with premium prices but didn't Leica take care of the problem at their expense? I had a Canon 1Ds Mk III show up from Canon (cps) on loan dead on arrival. That was also a premium camera with a premium price tag. It happens. It's how a company handles the problem once it there is one. I wish Leica's service was faster but it's not . That is one thing Canon excels in. CPS is amazing. But I prefer shooting with Leica Ms by a lot and again I had more issues with my Canons than I have had with my Leica's.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Godfrey said:
You already suggested in this very thread that your Sony cameras have experienced more failures*and service necessities than I've ever seen with any cameras, and certainly not with the Leicas I've owned, either film or digital.

G
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:)

My post rather than your coolaid interpretations speaks for itself.
 
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jlindstrom

Member
First, as said Vivek, you’re preaching to the converted, so expect the push back.

Second, even premium ”things” fail. That’s why there’s x ammount of warranty associated with our purchases. Leica has dealt also with products that are out of warranty. Usually that’s considered good service. Where they have problems is, that it takes time - but then again, there’s no promised SLA either. I still reckon, that if you need super fast service, you can buy it from them.

This is not unlike all the other stuff we buy. For example I’ve been driving expensive Audis for years. They too have had some faults, even certain diesel-gate comes to mind, but they’ve all been addressed. And I just exchanges my old Audi to another one. They’ve never left me on the road so far, but then I’ve never had a Leica fail mid-shoot either... guess I’m lucky. And if they were to leave me on the road, I’d call their road side assitance and they’d take care of me.

Problems we face, that aren’t cause of our own doing, are always a pain in the backside, but we have to live with them. The real guestion is wether the ”quilty” party owns up to them & fixes things to their best ability.

Anyway, preaching Sony or any other brand in a thread, that was originally discussion about one particular Leica product, doesn’t do you any good. Most of the followers here are very happy with their M10’s or are at least genuinely interested in it. Simply put, your opinions about Leica or the M10 will never get generally accepted in this thread or section of the getdpi forums.

So, can we now get back to discussions about the actual camera? :toocool:
 
Hulyss Bowman

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I have held the M10 and for sure this is the finest Digital M I ever used. It is all about The M and rangefinder experience, the thing have a soul. Of course many camera can do "Better" on a chart level but since when IQ have Something to do with photography ?

Still happy with my D700 and make ppl and institutions happy with it. No need to bash this wonderfull piece of brass. The M10 is as cult as the D700 already in leica products.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I cannot find anything wrong with that new M10 - only complaint was the lack of video, but that is obviously the philosophy of this camera and in times carrying anyway an iPhone X one can use this for video work.

So all is OK :clap:
 
J

jlindstrom

Member
Vivek, in the link you posted Leica says ”impressive dynamic range”. I didn’t see them saying improved dynamic range let alone improved compared to what?

Per the dxomark scores the M10 is equal to M240 and the SL and is better than Q or especially anything M9 based. Surely Leica wouldn’t be attacking any particular 3rd party with such claims, especially when they definitely want to differentiate themselves from the canonikon etc.

Also per dxomarks own statements:”A value of 12 EV is excellent, with differences below 0.5 EV usually not noticeable.”

The M10 scored 13.2 EV, which is notably more (according to dxo) than what is already considered excellent.

So, let’s stop beating a dead horse... :deadhorse:
 
D

daf

Member
Vivek said:
Jlindstrom,

In Leica’s own words, it is supposed to have a new 24mp sensor that offers higher DR. The first post/ topic of this thread (the DXO) link is diametrically opposed to that claim.

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M10/Details

Also, the M10 sports a mag-al alloy body and no brass.

Truth will triumph. I am comfident.
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Don't know and don't care how dxo has done his test.
You should try by yourself, download few raws with black parts, then push them by 4 stop or more in C1 you'll see how much better the m10 a nsor is compare to the m240...
 
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airfrogusmc

Well-known member
daf said:
Don't know and don't care how dxo has done his test.
You should try by yourself, download few raws with black parts, then push them by 4 stop or more in C1 you'll see how much better the m10 a nsor is compare to the m240...
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When I bring up shadows at high ISO with the M 10 I can bring up 3 sometimes even 4 stops down and they come up without the noise or the banding I get with the M 262.

The sensor is a much improved one over the M 262/M 240. That is first hand working with the actual files experience.

I don't think some really went here so I will repost but scroll down to the DR part.
Leica M10 - First Impression Review (UPDATED) ? JAY CASSARIO
 
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