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M10

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I just wanted to add that technical excellence doesn’t necessarily equate to the joy of photography. DXO be damned.

btw but to add that I shoot IQ3100 & XF and the boat anchor glass, plus GFX and Fuli / Canon glass and Actus DB2 and the best Rodies. However, the joy of shooting is all Leica. Sorry, but for me that’s true. If i want a portfolio image I’ll pull out the big / bigger gear but for real world Leica M10 is AWESOME for me. Pure joy & enjoyment.

hmm now that i think about it - mostly M246 ... and I’m not a B&W by choice.
 

KeithL

Well-known member
I'm no fanboy* and let's face it there are probably cameras out there that could in technical terms produce better files, but nothing inspires me more to get out there and make images than my Leica M series cameras.

*I'm perhaps unsurprisingly hardest on the manufacturers whose cameras I use.
 

D&A

Well-known member
I just wanted to add that technical excellence doesn’t necessarily equate to the joy of photography. DXO be damned.
.

Precisely! As Graham pointed out, sometimes technical excellence is required in having to use specific equipment to achieve a specific result, but other times, its the shear joy of using a camera, simply for capturing both our memories and visual images near and dear to both our vision and heart. Of course sometimes the same camera can often do both.

Heck, if DX0 was the sole arbiter of such things, then the current legions of Leica M9 fans (or Lomo users as another example), would immediately throw their cameras into a drawer, never to see the light of day again (or their shutter buttons "pressed" for that matter).

Dave (D&A)
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
Interesting you mentioned Lomo, Dave. At its height (not now), i was baffled to see them with price tags upwards of DM300. I bought another used 50/2 Summicron R instead for the same amount.

Always had been a gearhead. That is what attracted me to Leica when things were far better. Not the boutique stuff.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
---
Always had been a gearhead. That is what attracted me to Leica when things were far better. Not the boutique stuff.
Dear Vivek: Sorry to respond to you once more on this thread.

I've always been a gearhead too and have never bought anything because it was some sort of boutique special thing—but I was always a gearhead only up to a point. The point: I'm much more concerned with my photographs than I am with the quality of my gear. The fact is that my Leica M and other Leica cameras have always simply worked better for making photographs than other cameras I used/owned, regardless of what their specifications and test results might be. As I've grown older and had both a little more money in one sense and a little less money in another to spend on my gear, I just sort of lost the point of gearheadedness that permitted me to rationalize spending money to buy other equipment on the hope that it might do better ... it never has, why waste the money? So I just buy Leica gear now and know that it will work, saving my energy (and my money) to make photographs with.

It's a choice, not an obsession. And it's done me very well these past couple of years: I've spent far less on new equipment than I once did because all my Leica gear is quite simply good enough. :D

G
 

DwF

New member
I recently picked up a Sony Rx1R II while my Leica was away in New Jersey. I have always love and feel a need to have a fixed focal length 35mm camera, and the RX1R fits that bill- nice design and very nice lens sensor combination. The MM showed back up, and I am still very happy to have the Sony. I think that they will compliment one another especially since the MM is color blind. That said, nothing replaces the joy of shooting a Leica M series camera, in so many respects and the rangefinder at the heart of it.

As for the "quality" question, and with regard to B&W, I find myself more often wowed by images that come from the MM. I'd like to say they come from my MM, and sometimes I succeed to make that happen but images from other more capable photographers that I have seen. There is a palpable quality especially evident in the mix of lower "zones" that makes the blacks speak! And when the highs don't blow out, those provide the icing on the cake- just my opinion.

Of course this thread is about M10 and I'm not there yet but happy to have my MM and RX1R to keep me busy for now.

David
 

erudolph

Member
The turn this thread has taken reminds me of what I saw on 45 rpm record labels in Detroit in the '60s:

It's what's in the grooves that count
 

Chris C

Member
... You’re still preaching to a crowd of Leica owners, who’ve invested a pile of green into their gear and happen to love their gear. There, simply, is nothing you can say to turn this crowd around......
I don't happen to love my Leica gear. I could have been 'turned around', but as much as I despair of M10 irritations that get in my way; the irritations of Sony, Nikon [etc.] options obliged me to get an M10. I can't love the M10, it has too many design faults for me to feel it's a properly finished tool, it was just the best option for me when compared with the rest. Pity.

Keep kicking up the dust Vivek. Be critical.

............ Chris
 

erudolph

Member
One way to differentiate between critic and troll is: try to assess the amount of glee you find behind the criticism. This will help to establish the critic's place on the spectrum.

Just a thought.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Jono,

I agree with you on the entire subject. I have similar pictures from the M9 and - yes - the blacks are really black, but that doesn't change the effectiveness of the photo. I was really just expressing appreciation for Vivek's getting an effective , er, effect from a high DR photo.

Here's my favorite high DR M9 capture:



:D,

Matt
And that is with a camera with a DxO Mark score of 69, 17 points below the M10.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
I don't own any Leica's at the moment but have many year's of experience with the brand. I have to say that no camera has given me more sheer pleasure in pursuing photography than Leica. The M10 sounds to me to be the solution to what we all wanted when the first M8 was released. After an M9-P followed by a new M-P (240), I was not exactly thrilled with the output compared to the M8/M8.2. (Shhhh! Don't tell anyone, Maybe it's a CCD vs CMOS thing?)
So I'll wait awhile to let the hype settle down and the reality settle in.

And I hear there may be a Monochrom version! Be still my heart.
 
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I don't happen to love my Leica gear. I could have been 'turned around', but as much as I despair of M10 irritations that get in my way; the irritations of Sony, Nikon [etc.] options obliged me to get an M10. I can't love the M10, it has too many design faults for me to feel it's a properly finished tool, it was just the best option for me when compared with the rest. Pity.

Keep kicking up the dust Vivek. Be critical.

............ Chris
Chris, could you elaborate on the irritations a bit more?

Just speaking from my own experiences, I’m not really asking for more than what the M10 has to offer. For me, it met the expectations I had and things work as I expected based on previous digital M experiences.

Would be nice to understand what you find lacking and wether it could simply be a case of expecting too much (in the scheme of things that one shouldn’t have expected revolution, but evolution instead)?
 

jonoslack

Active member
I don't happen to love my Leica gear. I could have been 'turned around', but as much as I despair of M10 irritations that get in my way; the irritations of Sony, Nikon [etc.] options obliged me to get an M10. I can't love the M10, it has too many design faults for me to feel it's a properly finished tool, it was just the best option for me when compared with the rest. Pity.

Keep kicking up the dust Vivek. Be critical.

............ Chris
Hi There Chris
I’d like to know your irritations as well - the only thing that bugs me is that you can’t set a minimum ISO in the ISO settings (hardly a deal breaker). Otherwise I think it’s pretty excellent.

. . . . But if your problems can be fixed in firmware, they do listen!
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Reading through this thread, I am constantly reminded of one constant that I have always failed to answer satisfactorily...to myself..

All cameras can take pictures.
But Rayyan, can you?
 

Chris C

Member
Chris, could you elaborate on the irritations a bit more?

.......I’m not really asking for more than what the M10 has to offer. For me, it met the expectations I had and things work as I expected based on previous digital M experiences.

Would be nice to understand what you find lacking and wether it could simply be a case of expecting too much (in the scheme of things that one shouldn’t have expected revolution, but evolution instead)?
Hi There Chris
I’d like to know your irritations as well .... . . . But if your problems can be fixed in firmware, they do listen!
jlindstrom – Hello. And Hi there Jono. This may be more rushed than I'd prefer, but as I've been asked:

It terms of the file output the M10 is more than adequate, but I find some of it's layout and functionality a regression from the M8 [which I also have]. The delete button worked perfectly on the M8, on the M10, to delete an after exposure image I often need to close the image, then open it again [press PLAY] to access the menu delete function. The M10 'delete' function is clunky compared to the M8. When using a tripod [yes Jono a tripod] the on camera settings
for single shot, and timed [never used the continuous setting] made it a breeze to set an M8 shot and switch to a timed release, and revert back single shot if need be. The M10 forces one into the menu for every change of single/timed exposure; this function is far worse than in the M8.

For 10 years I perfected manual highlight metering with the M8 using a +2 2/3 stop exposure compensation, I can't use that technique with my M10 because Leica thinks it's a good idea to have a red spot permanently blinking in the viewfinder – I find it unpleasantly disconcerting and have had to abandon M10 highlight metering.

I understand that some users want auto settings, and that's fine, but my process is manual control and single shot. I rely on histogram guidance, and the M8
histogram wasn't exactly fantastic, but the M10's has been miniaturised to half the size of the M8's. Ten years after the M8 there's still no RGB option for those who wish to protect all channels from highlight exposure clipping. The implementation of the M10's histogram in the EVF is appalling [as noted by Lloyd Chambers but seemingly ignored by other commentators. The only way to access the EVF histogram on shutter half/press is to have the top and bottom of the viewed image obliterated with camera settings I have zero interest in seeing, I could switch them off – but then I lose all access to the live histogram. Inevitably I end up with an absurd finger dance to keep the EVF image clear of clutter, then have to switch the clutter in to get the histogram back, and then finger dance the clutter away again. Seriously Leica; that's a good idea?

Mention of clutter brings me to an enduring irritation; twinned framelines, eternally distracting twinned framelines. I would love an option to upgrade to
28/35/50 tramlines only; hell I might then even be more encouraged to use a 75mm [but with the EVF]. If having distracting lines were a good idea Peter Karbe and Dr. Kaufmann would have rectangles engraved on their glasses.

And lastly, but importantly. No level in the M10. A level would make my exterior tripod work easier, faster, and more accurate, I'd even use it with the EVF when hand holding. The lack of level is inexcusable.

OK. I didn't want to write the above, but I was asked. I really think the M10 could have been my Stradivarius, but instead Leica made a trombone. I don't like cameras, but I'm a photographer in love with photographs so I have to use a camera. When the camera gets in the way; I sometimes feel I'm a trombonist.

Enough!

Hey Jono, did you ever sort out a touring bike frame? Give my love to Cornwall.

................ Chris
 

airfrogusmc

Well-known member
Hi Chris,

What you want on a rangefinder camera I have no interest in and in fact I think a rangefinder might not be the right tool for what you need. I would recommend a view camera, a spot meter and learn the zone system for the way you work.
 
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