s007 prices??

[Paratom]

Me too, the S2 was instantly my dream camera and it was up on a pedestal as far as I was concerned. It unfortuntely worked out more complicated and problematic than that for me though and development lagged in the areas I needed.

Leica was the first to create this small medium format camera and probably paved the way for the GFX and X1. Really it was miracle they could take a medium format camera and make it smaller than a Canon 1 series and especially so back in 2009 or what ever it was - almost 10 years ago. It was truly ahead of it's time.

There's no denying how nice S images look either but there is also a fair bit of marketing at play - the lenses really aren't significantly better than other systems, they are generally not that much faster either. It takes nice images at a very high price.

My last remaining issue was the disparity between the cost of ownership and the reliability and service.

I stepped into the S system, for the same size and handling reason you mentioned. Now comes the x1 is on step further regarding size and compability. Thats why I decided to go for a x1d and 45 and 90.
I am not after maximum IQ, I am after excellent IQ in a size which I can bring to the place where I want to take images.
From some first images the Hassy 45mm looks fine to me, even though shooting side by side with the S45mm the difference in vignetting was more than obvious. How much DR does that kill to correct it? Its still ok for me, because on the other side the Hassy 45mm is much smaller.
I have no idea how the S lenses compare to other Hassy or Phase lenses. I once had a Hy6 with some Rollei Schneider and Zeiss glass and I also really liked those lenses. All I can say is that the S lenses I have used seem excellent in every regards so far. Are they better, equal or worse to Phase lenses? I dont really care.

 

[bab]

I stepped into the S system, for the same size and handling reason you mentioned. Now comes the x1 is on step further regarding size and compability. Thats why I decided to go for a x1d and 45 and 90.
I am not after maximum IQ, I am after excellent IQ in a size which I can bring to the place where I want to take images.
From some first images the Hassy 45mm looks fine to me, even though shooting side by side with the S45mm the difference in vignetting was more than obvious. How much DR does that kill to correct it? Its still ok for me, because on the other side the Hassy 45mm is much smaller.
I have no idea how the S lenses compare to other Hassy or Phase lenses. I once had a Hy6 with some Rollei Schneider and Zeiss glass and I also really liked those lenses. All I can say is that the S lenses I have used seem excellent in every regards so far. Are they better, equal or worse to Phase lenses? I dont really care.

Good move a platform that should be around for a long time and little or no service issues

 

[Paratom]

Good move a platform that should be around for a long time and little or no service issues

At this point of time I dont plan to stop out of the S system. I need to see how the x1d works for me and if I can give up the S.
The brand new x1d I received had a problem with the grip but response from Hasselblad was fast and I get another camera tomorrow.
The only reason to get the x1d additionally to the S was size of body and lenses. Otherwise I have been quite happy with reliability, quality and service from Leica. If the x1d is more or less futureproof then the S I dont know, I expect both systems to have a future. Availability of lenses/ lens options of S systems is certainly more grown up then x1d. But I am really impressed how Hasselblad can get a MF in such a nice compact size.

 

[ndwgolf]

Tom, they're like unicorns. I could find only one recent sale (in the US) of a Type 007 in that condition:

Seems alarmingly cheap, given the original retail price.

Joe

Joe thats an expensive second hand S007.
I was offered $10,000,00 for my 6 month old S007 with 3 like new S lenses against a $48K Phase One.......go figure

I still have my S gear and no plans to sell it as they are unfortunately worth very little second hand

Neil

 

[Paratom]

Joe thats an expensive second hand S007.
I was offered $10,000,00 for my 6 month old S007 with 3 like new S lenses against a $48K Phase One.......go figure

I still have my S gear and no plans to sell it as they are unfortunately worth very little second hand

Neil

10k $ for a S007+3 lenses is a joke. I dont think anybody would sell it for that price.

 

[MGrayson]

Dealers buy at 2/3 wholesale. And even at that rate, $10,000 was a lowball bid.

 

[ndwgolf]

10k $ for a S007+3 lenses is a joke. I dont think anybody would sell it for that price.

I was offered £8k from The Camera Pro in the UK against a new H6D50c plus 3 lenses. If your selling an S007 and are offered 6k to 8k for it, I would snap it up as I think these cameras are only going to be heading one way and thats down. As for S lenses, they need a really good S008 to stop the slide on those as well.............I'm keeping my S gear as its an amazing system and I am also not prepared to loose 75% of what I paid for it in less than 2 years

Neil

 

[ndwgolf]

Dealers buy at 2/3 wholesale. And even at that rate, $10,000 was a lowball bid.

Matt its a fact though. Ive had a bunch of fun with my S Gear .........but not 30 grands worth if you know what I mean

Neil

 

[ndwgolf]

At this point of time I dont plan to stop out of the S system. I need to see how the x1d works for me and if I can give up the S.
The brand new x1d I received had a problem with the grip but response from Hasselblad was fast and I get another camera tomorrow.
The only reason to get the x1d additionally to the S was size of body and lenses. Otherwise I have been quite happy with reliability, quality and service from Leica. If the x1d is more or less futureproof then the S I dont know, I expect both systems to have a future. Availability of lenses/ lens options of S systems is certainly more grown up then x1d. But I am really impressed how Hasselblad can get a MF in such a nice compact size.

Para
I looked at the X1D but ended up buying a new H6D100c...........man I love this camera, it just feels right in my hands and the files are......very nice too.
The H6D100c with the HC100 f2.2 lens (Hassys Noctilux) is pretty much the same size as my S with either of the S lenses

Neil

 

[PeterA]

I switched out of the S system into the SL and I can't help but think that Leica have created a bit of a conundrum for themselves.I'm very happy with the SL and its glass and also because I can use my M lenses on it as well as my Zeiss manual focus lenses - do I need an extra 15 megapixels? Probably not, but the next move for the SL (if any) is more megapixels which might challenge the S system too much...which is why I bought an XID. The market is getting very crowded and pricing for bodies is falling per megapixel up to 50 - the margin is surely in the lenses...as it should be I guess.

If I had the S system and a few of the excellent lenses I wouldnt consider selling at current prices - 37megapixels V 25ish = 12 megapixels of crop to play with. I made the mistake of selling my Hasselbald system and 5 H lenses to get into S at 25cents in the dollar - NEVER AGAIN!.:banghead:

 

[Paratom]

Para
I looked at the X1D but ended up buying a new H6D100c...........man I love this camera, it just feels right in my hands and the files are......very nice too.
The H6D100c with the HC100 f2.2 lens (Hassys Noctilux) is pretty much the same size as my S with either of the S lenses

Neil

Hi Neil,
looks we have different needs and expectations.
I have been allways happy with the IQ and MP of the Leica S, so my only reason to add another MF camera was size/weight. I like outdoor activities and while its possible with the S and its lenses its much more relaxed with the x1d and its smaller lenses. (This was one of the reasons why I decided to enter the S system over Phase and Hasselblad years ago)
The S+45mm is 2370g, the x1d +45mm is 1140 g
The S+30+45+90 is about 4,3 kg, the x1d+30,45,90 is about 2,3 kg
Also the x1d draws even less attention than other MF-cameras since its quite a bit smaller.
To me it feels like a digital Mamiya 6 (just better build quality).

I bet for ultimate IQ the 100MP sensor of the H6 is even better, for me portability is more important and the S/x1d IQ. I can see how absolute IQ counts more for other applications and photographers.

But like you I keep my S system for now. I see no need to rush out and operation speed, lens speed, lens quality of the S are quite ahead of my x1d, even though I feel I can adapt to the slower pace of the x1d. We will see.

 

[Paratom]

I switched out of the S system into the SL and I can't help but think that Leica have created a bit of a conundrum for themselves.I'm very happy with the SL and its glass and also because I can use my M lenses on it as well as my Zeiss manual focus lenses - do I need an extra 15 megapixels? Probably not, but the next move for the SL (if any) is more megapixels which might challenge the S system too much...which is why I bought an XID. The market is getting very crowded and pricing for bodies is falling per megapixel up to 50 - the margin is surely in the lenses...as it should be I guess.

If I had the S system and a few of the excellent lenses I wouldnt consider selling at current prices - 37megapixels V 25ish = 12 megapixels of crop to play with. I made the mistake of selling my Hasselbald system and 5 H lenses to get into S at 25cents in the dollar - NEVER AGAIN!.:banghead:

Isnt it amazing how the x1d and its primes are in the same size of the SL? Yes, they are slower f-stop, but for daylight...One of the biggest pluses of the SL is the 24-90mm lens. It is just sooo flexible without much drawback in regards of IQ.

I must say though that IMO the difference between SL and S (or x1d) IQ is not just megapixel, it is also about color, midtones and transition from focus plane to background.

 

[ptomsu]

Seeing the price erosion and reading about what most of you have encountered with the S system I am very happy I never jumped on that wagon (aka did not have enough money for this).

IMHO the S system should have increased the MP count already some 4 years ago to at least 50MP and now have a camera ready with 100MP to stay competitive. I am pretty sure the lenses would be up to 100+ MP anytime.

What Leica created with that 37MP strategy in the S system was mainly to also slow down evolution of the SL system, as this should already long time offer 36+MP and also more advanced AF. Having said that the SL system would be the system I would invest today if I would go back into Leica - or shall I say would invest also in the future as this is the way to go and evolve with technology. I think 48MP and 300+ AF points would be very appropriate for the SL2 ....

 

[ptomsu]

I must say though that IMO the difference between SL and S (or x1d) IQ is not just megapixel, it is also about color, midtones and transition from focus plane to background.

Even as Leica colours are really good, I would prefer Hasselblad colours anytime. Nothing ever toped the colours I got out of my H3D39

 

[ndwgolf]

Hi Neil,
looks we have different needs and expectations.
I have been allways happy with the IQ and MP of the Leica S, so my only reason to add another MF camera was size/weight. I like outdoor activities and while its possible with the S and its lenses its much more relaxed with the x1d and its smaller lenses. (This was one of the reasons why I decided to enter the S system over Phase and Hasselblad years ago)
The S+45mm is 2370g, the x1d +45mm is 1140 g
The S+30+45+90 is about 4,3 kg, the x1d+30,45,90 is about 2,3 kg
Also the x1d draws even less attention than other MF-cameras since its quite a bit smaller.
To me it feels like a digital Mamiya 6 (just better build quality).

I bet for ultimate IQ the 100MP sensor of the H6 is even better, for me portability is more important and the S/x1d IQ is (more than) good enough for my needs.

But like you I keep my S system for now. I see no need to rush out and operation speed, lens speed, lens quality of the S are quite ahead of my x1d, even though I feel I can adapt to the slower pace of the x1d. We will see.

The difference between the files of the S007 and the H6D100c is like chalk and onions.........I like my S007 but the H6D100c has the wow factor.
I also had a morning out with the H6D hanging on my Black Rabbit Sling and it was perfect for grabbing some shots on the street especially in old China Town Kuala Lumpur.
Pictures to follow

Neil

 

[Paratom]

Even as Leica colours are really good, I would prefer Hasselblad colours anytime. Nothing ever toped the colours I got out of my H3D39

So far I cant say I would prefer x1d color over S color, both are pretty damn good for my taste and eye.

 

[ptomsu]

So far I cant say I would prefer x1d color over S color, both are pretty damn good for my taste and eye.

Tom,

time will for sure tell you, it is like night and day for my eyes. Although tastes can of course be very subjective.

Having said that - actually the Fuji GFX would be in the same league for me colour wise - but the X1D is for sure the much more sexy camera

Best

Peter

 

[Paratom]

The difference between the files of the S007 and the H6D100c is like chalk and onions.........I like my S007 but the H6D100c has the wow factor.
I also had a morning out with the H6D hanging on my Black Rabbit Sling and it was perfect for grabbing some shots on the street especially in old China Town Kuala Lumpur.
Pictures to follow

Neil

Sounds good! I think what counts is that the equipment we own works for us and that we go out and use it (and for amateurs also have fun with it).

 

[Paratom]

Tom,

time will for sure tell you, it is like night and day for my eyes. Although tastes can of course be very subjective.

Having said that - actually the Fuji GFX would be in the same league for me colour wise - but the X1D is for sure the much more sexy camera

Best

Peter

I dont expect to see much difference. I do believe to see a difference between various dx and 35mm sensors compared to MF sensors though. So Leica M color/tonality is not the same as Leica S color/tonality.
But I also just use standard profiles so I am not a post processing specialist. Still I find the MF cameras to have very good color from the start, so this a big advantage for me. The Fuji GFX is not for me, the user interface and form factor doesnt appeal to me.

 

[ptomsu]

I dont expect to see much difference. I do believe to see a difference between various dx and 35mm sensors compared to MF sensors though. So Leica M color/tonality is not the same as Leica S color/tonality.
But I also just use standard profiles so I am not a post processing specialist. Still I find the MF cameras to have very good color from the start, so this a big advantage for me. The Fuji GFX is not for me, the user interface and form factor doesnt appeal to me.

I understand that, while the UI of the GFX is not bad at all and just a matter of getting used to, the form factor turns me off as well