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Leica CL ... GDG first impressions.

Godfrey

Well-known member
Preface: After studying the manual and then evaluating, handling the Leica CL in person, I've decided to obtain one. I should have it by the weekend.

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The Leica CL ... my first impressions.

Made it up to Leica Store San Francisco on Tuesday and had a good long look at the CL there. I asked and was given the opportunity to reset it, fit my lenses, and make test exposures with my card.

My primary desire for this camera is to use it for copy work, table-top plus other niche uses like long telephoto work, etc. I intend it to be my TTL viewing body for the value of that in precision focusing and digitizing negatives. I'm not too concerned with AF or many of the other convenience features of the CL; what motivates me is that Leica supports all my R and M lenses on it, and it will work with all of my existing accessories. That said, I do expect that any camera I own will get used for some general purpose photography as well—I'll just be using my existing manual M and R lenses via the adapters rather than buying new lenses for the camera.

Picking up the body for the first time, the CL is light and small yet feels solid. The controls all move with the smoothness I expect from Leica gear, and the sense of precision in their click-settings is there. The camera is nicely spare and lean on number of buttons, etc. It looks like a "mini" Leica M.

After resetting the body, then setting the file output types to JPEG+raw, I fitted my Color Skopar 28mm to the M Adapter L, and set the lens profile for the Leica 28mm Summaron-M. This was always one of my favorites when shooting with the Ricoh GXR, although I got it somewhat late in that game, and is that sweet "wide-normal" with an FoV equivalent of about 42mm on the APS-C format. A few moments fussing about to figure how to set the ISO and EV compensation, then brought the camera to my eye.

While not the "state of the art" of the SL, the EVF on the CL is very nice. I turned on focus peaking, it worked as expected. I stepped up the magnification and it worked as expected. No problems. One press on the center button on the four way pad and all info is there, another press and it's a clean view. Nice.

Down to f/5.6, I had no difficulty seeing the 28mm lens go in and out of focus as I turned the focusing ring. Below that, I found magnification became necessary for precision. I didn't have the time to try to evaluate how accurate the distance scale was on this camera with the mount adapter, but I expect it to be slightly off (allowing one to focus slightly past infinity) if it's like all the other bodies I've tried this adapter on.

I tend to forget just how good a lens this little 28mm really is. It's simply terrific, and the Summaron-M 28mm f/5.6 lens profile seems to suit it perfectly on APS-C.

Next I fitted the WATE. I took four or five exposures at each of the primary focal length settings, both at 6-8' distance and from a close up position. If that 11-33 is actually a better lens than this one, it's probably beyond my ability to see the difference. The WATE produces just awesome image quality ... and that's hand held, without the benefit of a tripod to really make it sing. It's just an amazing lens, IMO, and I'm very happy I sprang for the big bucks to get it.

Finally I did a series of exposures with the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm and the APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm: my standard reference shot, a number of close ups, some tests shooting a tape measure to check the magnification indication on the barrel, a couple of portraits of the sales person who was helping me. Both of these lenses are a bit bulky, but they both balance beautifully on the camera IMO ... not too large, not too heavy, not too light. The TL lens obviously has AF and focuses very quickly and surely. The R lens also focuses quickly but manually. Neither is any problem to focus with extreme accuracy even at f/8, without so much as either peaking or magnification turned on.

Notice I haven't said much about the CL's controls? There's a reason for that: the little beastie was fitted with firmware v2, I'd quickly set up the dials and buttons based on my reading the manual before I got here, and everything about it worked exactly as it was designed to ... and very nicely for me. The only ergonomic niggle, for me, is that like with most small digital cameras, there's not enough space to fit my mitts comfortably on the naked body (of course, that doesn't matter at all for copystand and tripod use). I tried the grip and it made a big "Meh." sound in my head. I tried the half case and that does the job of thickening and making the camera just a hair taller, with a bit more room for my thumbs, etc. So for walking around picture taking, I'll need the half case (or Protector, as Leica likes to call it). I'm pleased that they put a magnetically closed trap door in the bottom so you can swap the battery and access the SD card without taking it off.

I thanked the salesperson for her time, told her I'd be in touch, and left for home. Once there, I moved all the DNG + JPEG files into Lightroom v6.14. Everything opened right up and looks great right at the DNG defaults. The 28, the WATE both shine beautifully on this body. The truly interesting comparison, to me, is the Macro-Elmarit-R 60 vs the APO Macro-Elmarit-TL 60: With the latter being cropped to APS-C, I imagined that it might look a bit shuttered or confined since Leica makes such a big deal of tuning their lenses. Well, nothing to fear with this one. It is hard to see any difference whatever between the TL and R lenses, and both are just superb performers on this body. From 1:2 to a half-length portrait, the images couldn't be too much more similar without saying that they're the same optics just in a different lens mount, although I know that's not the case.

Of course, I don't touch on AF or many of the cameras' other features yet. They're all niceties that I expect are of value to someone, but my primary notion was to examine the quality of the viewfinder, the control layout, and the imaging performance with my intended lenses. I think I'm going to be well satisfied with the Leica CL as both an adjunct for my niche needs and as a peer sibling to my M-D.

onwards!
G
 
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Photon42

Well-known member
Great wrap up, Godfrey. I am using the CL since December last year. It is a dangerous camera ... it fits right between an M and a PEN.F. I am still hoping they come out with an f2 16 thereabouts and a stabilised telephoto lens. The native lenses are superb, but any M lens I used it with looks great, too. The little Color Skopar 35 2.5 LTM shines on the CL:



As well as an old Nikon AI 2.8/180:

 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Nice photos!

I just returned from picking up the CL and have put the battery on the charger to get ready for use.

Leica has a bonus program going right now that nets an M Adapter L included when you buy a CL, with or without a lens. I already have the adapter and don't need a second, so I asked if the value of the adapter could be applied to getting a spare battery and the Protector. The sales person asked and the exchange was approved, so I took home the body, a spare battery, and the half case for the price of the body. This is why I like working with store folks in person when I do business... :D

I'm off for a bicycle ride now, when I get back I'll get the camera set up and start my testing/shooting.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Both batteries were charged up by last evening. Spent some time updating the firmware and playing with customizations to learn what they all do. Played with various lenses on it to get a feel for them. Juggled a few tripod plates to see what works well.

Like the SL, I've found so far that I generally prefer to use my R lenses on it, rather than the much more compact M lenses, because they make more sense to my fingers on this kind of camera body and viewing system. It's a nice, small, light body to work with on a copy stand or tripod. The WiFi remote control via smartphone and tablet make it convenient. The controls are easy to understand and simple enough to learn quickly. Etc.

I have my Macro-Elmarit-R 60 right here, still have to hunt up my Macro-Elmar-R f/4 and Focusing Bellows R, and Elmarit-R 19mm. Both my R50s, the R90, and the R180, plus extenders and tubes, are right here too. The Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 is on the camera at present for a beauty shot:



Haven't yet made an exposure with it. Just going slow, getting familiar. No rush. :D

I think the CL is going to work out nicely for what I bought it to do. Remember that I'm not particularly interested in it for my general shooting needs.. I bought it to complement my M-D and other cameras for the niche things that I've had a gap with since I sent the SL off to be sold—a TTL viewing body compatible with my tabletop, macro, and copy work.

From an ergonomic point of view, it's a little small for my hands for general shooting, but I'm sure I'll get used to it if I decide to use it for that. :)
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Testing with different lenses begins ... I'll shove the results of that over into the relevant "Fun with Leica CL" thread. :D

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I've spent a goodly bit of time today experimenting and working with my various M and R lenses on the CL body.

  • I'm liking the CL body more and more as I get more familiar with it. It works very nicely with all my lenses, allowing them to image the way they ought to.
  • Despite their larger size and heavier weight, I prefer using the R lenses over the M lenses on this body. AND they seem to produce better results for me.

From a handling perspective on an eye-level TTL camera, the R lenses simply make more sense: The lens itself presents a healthy bit of real estate for gripping the camera assembly, the controls are all in very easy to find by touch, predictable locations, and my right hand doesn't have to be so concerned with a secure grip—I can stabilize the camera lightly with it, work the controls, and release the shutter more smoothly. Case in point: I have both Summicron-M 50mm and Summilux-R 50mm lenses. Both make superb photos, but it's easier to hold the camera still, focus and frame, and work both aperture and shutter with the R lens. Same for the M-Rokkor 90mm and Summicron-R 90mm, as well as the WATE and Elmarit-R 19mm.

That means I have three out of my four basic lens needs all set up with R lenses ... the only lens I don't have a paired R lens for now is the Color Skopar 28mm. I guess I have to get an Elmarit-R 28mm f/2.8 ... :)

It's interesting that I find these ergonomic distinctions so high profile, but such it is. My 'little' CL will mostly wear my 'big' R lenses...
 

scott kirkpatrick

Well-known member
I've spent a goodly bit of time today experimenting and working with my various M and R lenses on the CL body.

... the only lens I don't have a paired R lens for now is the Color Skopar 28mm. I guess I have to get an Elmarit-R 28mm f/2.8 ... :)

It's interesting that I find these ergonomic distinctions so high profile, but such it is. My 'little' CL will mostly wear my 'big' R lenses...
I agree. I find the big CL lenses, like the zooms and 35/1.4 are perfectly comfortable to use. I don't feel conspicuous and they fit my hands. The same is true with larger M lenses. Jaapv on the LUF keeps waxing eloquent about his 24 M Summilux, which I find a bit too big, but I really like my 10 year old M 24/2.8-asph, which maps into a reasonable 36 mm eff focal length and is a less-known very bright lens that is probably available on the used market. I use it in preference to the CL 23 except when I need AF speed in a crowded setting.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Have to laugh at myself! I was looking for something in the closet and had to move my little box of Nikon F gear out of the way. It's mostly my pretty 1961 F plain prism and its Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 pre-AI in the box, along with assorted Nikon bitties for it, that I keep for nostalgia's sake. But I noticed a lump in an unusual little bag. So I pulled that out and, yup, it was my long forgotten other Nikkor lens for the F ... a lovely example of a Pre-AI Nikkor 28mm f/2 that's been fitted with an AI aperture ring.

I put that on my F->M lens mount adapter and fitted that onto the CL with the M Adapter L. Oh yeah: the nice big SLR lens makes it so much easier to handle the camera, and dang! .. f/2 to f/2.8 makes it a even easier to nail perfect focus than with the Color Skopar 28/3.5!

This is a great performing lens too, even without any lens profile, so a worthy addition to my CL use kit. I'll likely pick up an Elmarit-R 28/2.8 anyway so that I can work with just the one lens mount/mount adapter, and so that the aperture and focus ring on all my usual lenses work in the same direction for ease and convenience. (And the Elmarit-R 28mm will work on my Leicaflex SL body too, so I have yet another use for it!)

A fun re-discovery. :)
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
One of my primary goals in acquiring the CL body was to have a high quality, 24 MPixel TTL body to facilitate negative copy work instead of working with film scanners, particularly for 6x6 format film. So I also acquired a good copy stand (finally! after fifty some years of working with the kludgiest junk!) and look to put my Leica R macro equipment to work.

Here's a photo of today's hastily thrown together test scan setup:



It's lacking some of the usual niceties, like proper masking of the individual negative and having the light panel be securely taped down for consistency. In order to prevent newton rings, I capture the film emulsion side up (the surface of the light panel is ANR, the glass is not) and then flip it during the image processing.

So ... Here are three initial test scans taken with the Leica CL body and Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm lens using my well-worn (and not cleaned or edited) strip of 120 format B&W. (Clicking each image here will net a full resolution 4000x4000 pixel rendering.)







There's much more to be had with "good" negatives... these are too thin, really, but they were easy to hand for checking the scanning setup and image reversal processing in the simple case just to get an idea of what kind of quality I can expect. The Leica CL's 24 MPixel resolution and Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm lens seems to do this job.

I'm pleased. I did some checks and, with a Summicron-R 50mm f/2 lens, I can image down to tighter than a Minox negative right to the edges of the 24 Mpixel frame with no light drop-off or other problems. That's better than I could do with the SL, due to the CL's smaller format. :D

enjoy,
G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Godfrey - which specific model light panel are you using there? Very handy to have an AN surface incorporated!
It's an ancient Hakuba 5700 Pro Lightviewer ... I probably bought it about 24 years ago. I doubt if they're still available new anywhere. The illuminated surface has a very light stippling all over so it cannot cause newton rings at all.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
The question of whether there's enough resolution for very fine grained films came up again, so I decided to go to the the opposite end of my negative capture spectrum and test for system resolution capabilities. Using the CL fitted with Leica Focusing Bellows-R and Summicron-R 50mm f/2 lens, I set up for Minox film capture at about 1.75:1 magnification:



You can barely see it in the photo, but I have a little negative holder that was designed for a medium format film scanner to fit into the 120 film carrier, so I can use the same film channel to scan Minox negatives as I do with 120 film.

The photo shown below is a B&W self-portrait made in 1998 at Paris DeGaulle airport with a Minox C on APX 25 film processed in HC-110 developer. Remember that the original negative is 8x11 mm in size.. :)

(Click image to obtain a full resolution rendering.)



This CL macro setup certainly shows it can image cleanly very fine grained APX25 film at 1.75:1 magnification. So what say, "hmm, what will it do with fine-grained 35mm film imaged at 1:1 magnification? Will I still see the grain?" The logic behind that question is that if I can see the grain structure clearly, there's no more detail to be had in the image than that.

So I switched back to the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm lens and fitted it with the Macro Adapter-R extension tube, enabling me to set it up for 1:1 magnification, and rephotographed the Minox film strip held exactly the same way as above:



That's good! I can still see APX25 grain structure at a 1:1 capture.

The final test is to consider that capture magnification for 6x6cm negatives is lower, down to about 1:3.75 magnification. Reset the lens configuration without the extension tube, reset the focus ... snap!



I can still see the grain structure in the 100% image with this capture, although it's beginning to get a bit more difficult to make out. My feeling is that, for my purposes, this is enough resolution for anything I'm likely to do with my photographs. So I'm now fully satisfied that the CL's APS-C sensor with the right macro copy gear is capable of returning a good, high resolution, 24 MPixel image from any film I'm going to throw at it, 120 format down to Minox subminiature format, and a 24 MPixel image of 4000x6000 pixels dimension is going to enable me to make lovely 13x20 inch prints at 300ppi output resolution, and 16x24 prints at 240ppi output resolution.

IF I were intent on imaging at the same resolution for larger film formats, and or looking to make even larger prints than that, I'd be looking for something with a larger pixel count sensor. To double linear resolution and get the same magnification capability as this setup provides, I'd need something on the order of a 96 MPixel resolution sensor (double the pixels in both linear dimensions). That would enable me to record negatives up to about four times the area of a 6x9cm negative with the same ability to capture the grain structure, presuming I have a lens and copy setup good enough to achieve those numbers optically.

Fun fun fun! Enjoy,
G
 
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Robert Campbell

Well-known member
Godfrey, perhaps I missed it somewhere, but how do you focus this macro setup? Do you use a tablet on WiFi? Otherwise, I'd have thought it might be more than a bit tricky.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Godfrey, perhaps I missed it somewhere, but how do you focus this macro setup? Do you use a tablet on WiFi? Otherwise, I'd have thought it might be more than a bit tricky.
Focusing isn't hard. I turn on Focus Assist, set the magnification I want on the lens or bellows scale, set the aperture wide open, unlock the camera mount on the copy stand, and slide the camera slowly through the focus assist highlighting to see where it peaks. I snug the camera mount there, turn off focus assist, then unlock it again and check with the focus magnification set on to max. It's been right on the money. Once I lock the camera again, I close the aperture down to f/8 or f/11, depending on the magnification I'm using.

I tried using the Leica CL app with my iPad Pro but the refresh delay is too slow to track the camera movement and focus migration precisely enough. It's easier to see on the rear LCD. Fine adjustment is easier with the bellows unit because of its built-in fine-geared focusing rail (thank you, Leica!) so I'll probably buy an accessory focusing rail to use with the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm as well. I can use the pad to trigger the shutter and do exposure settings, but then I can't see the image on the camera LCD, so I've been setting the self-timer for 2 seconds and gently releasing the shutter on the camera body. I wish they'd put a remote release port on the CL, it would make it easier and faster to do the job. But I've got a little gizmo coming that will let me adapt a standard cable release, so it's no big deal.

For film capture, you only have to focus it once per setup: The focus does not change as I move the film through the channel I've made on the light table. That simplifies and speeds up the capture enormously. Once I set the focus, I captured all nine frames of this Minox strip in about a minute to the same resolution.

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Went on my first bicycle ride carrying the CL today to test out how it will work for a bicycle carry. Here's my ride report, written for my biking group on another forum...

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It was time for my regular bi-weekly doctor appointment at Samaritan Hospital Medical Center, down at the south-west end of San Jose where it meets Los Gatos, and where Highway 17 and Highway 85 cross. This is about fourteen miles away by bicycle and the path there and back wiggles through some lovely neighborhoods as well as runs a good stretch of Gazos Creek Trail, alongside the creek. The round trip distance generally runs 25 to 30 miles depending on exactly what paths I take.

I decided to see if my new Leica CL with my two 'standard' lenses would be a carry-able proposition on this kind of bicycle ride. First positive indicator was that the camera fitted with the mount adapters, half case, and Elmarit-R 28mm lens fits neatly along with the Summilux-R 50mm lens into my Peak Design Everyday Sling 5L bag ... my usual bicycle carry ... and is not overly heavy.

So off I went. It was a pretty warm day ... I started when temps were around 85°F and as I rode along they ran up as high as 96°. But it was nice riding with light wind and a fun route.

I don't stop too often when I'm on a ride, but I made an effort to stop and take a couple of photos while running along Gazos Creek Trail as I approached the crossing which take me over the creek itself and then over Highway 17, near the Hospital complex.

So here's a rather pretty little winding uphill just before I reached the creek crossover:



Gazos Creek Trail is nicely maintained and pretty heavily used. I was lucky to be on it at an hour where few others were using it, so no traffic at all! :)

Next I had to cross the creek from south to north to manage the Highway 17 underpass. Here's a view from that bridge down into the creek.



Under this vantage point, what you can't see is a bit of a steep little falls as the creek bed is managed to flow over a concrete abutment and fall about 40 feet down ... Thus the windy and steep uphill in the previous photo.

Next, I've negotiated through the park area of the trail, where there are lots of facilities and a couple of small man-made lakes for recreational use. Next we cross the creek again, this time over a steel and wood bridge. Here I'm in the mid-span of that bridge and you can see Highway 17 running alongside the creek.



Looking straight down the span, you can see the trail pavement wiggle around and in the distance the highway walking/biking bridge overpass. A bicyclist popped into view just in time for some scale...



I stopped mid-span over the top of the bridge and snapped a couple there. This view shows Highway 17 below, looking west to the Santa Cruz Mountains.



This view gives you an idea of the crossover bridge ... they guard carefully against people throwing things down on the road below, as well as keeping people from falling, with high wire-link fencing.



Finally over the bridge, you're in a nice little cul de sac of suburban homes. All the roads in this little neighborhood are themed as the names of composers. I thought this intersection would be a nice place for a musician or music lover to live.



From there, I had to wiggle around a bit and find the path over to the next little community, scoot across the busy South Bascom Avenue, through another nice little neighborhood, over yet another bicycle crossing bridge to the hospital complex.

My route home went on surface streets a little to the east of the trail. I stopped to see whether my 'other favorite' bicycle shop had moved yet—they have, I'll have to visit the new store in Cupertino soon—and back up to my neighborhood via my usual route. Temps had gotten quite high and I was feeling both dry and hungry, so I stopped at a local sandwich shop for lunch and a LOT of water. Snapped a photo of FCC while I was eating my sandwich:



Looking great, running great ... I turned 1120 miles on it since April today. Tires still have meat, new chain fitted about 70 miles ago.

Home was another four miles on from there. I went inside, stripped off my wet bicycle gear, pulled on my swim trunks, and jumped into the pool for a refreshing swim. Then inside, a quick shower off, and a half hour nap.

BTW: The camera worked flawlessly and was not an issue to carry... If anything could be considered an issue, it's the standard problem of any EVF in bright, direct sunlight when wearing sunglasses. Normally, when I'm out for a photo session specifically, I don't wear sunglasses and I wear a wide rim hat so I can see the screen clearly for focusing and framing.

I never did get a moment to change lenses, but eh? so what? Life is Good!

onwards,
G
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Godfrey,

great photos and the CL seems to be a very capable camera.

Why not consider the standard zoom for such adventures as bike rides? I think it would give a very great lens (range) with very decent IQ while pretty small and you would not have any need for lens changes :cool:

Just my 5c - would be my standard lens at least.

Peter
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
great photos and the CL seems to be a very capable camera.

Why not consider the standard zoom for such adventures as bike rides? I think it would give a very great lens (range) with very decent IQ while pretty small and you would not have any need for lens changes :cool:

Just my 5c - would be my standard lens at least.
Thanks!

I'm just not particularly enthused about spending the money for it. I'm not all that big on autofocus, I only ever use M and A exposure modes, and with the standard zoom I have no DoF scale to work with. I didn't really feel the need to change lenses anyway, which is why the 50mm stayed in the bag. I could spend months of shooting with nothing but the Elmarit-R 28mm ...!

There are two lenses that are on my short list should I actually feel I want/need them: the TL18 and the TL11-33. The first for a small wide (my Elmarit-R 19mm is pretty big and awkward to carry like I did these two), and the second to get an even wider FoV. But neither are punching my buttons enough right now so that I punch the buy button. :D
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Thanks!

I'm just not particularly enthused about spending the money for it. I'm not all that big on autofocus, I only ever use M and A exposure modes, and with the standard zoom I have no DoF scale to work with. I didn't really feel the need to change lenses anyway, which is why the 50mm stayed in the bag. I could spend months of shooting with nothing but the Elmarit-R 28mm ...!

There are two lenses that are on my short list should I actually feel I want/need them: the TL18 and the TL11-33. The first for a small wide (my Elmarit-R 19mm is pretty big and awkward to carry like I did these two), and the second to get an even wider FoV. But neither are punching my buttons enough right now so that I punch the buy button. :D
Well I am obviously a totally different person when it comes to photography - lazy as I am I would highly prefer any native CL AF glass over manual lenses - at least for occasional photography. The 18 and 11-23 would make lot of sense to me.

Anyway enjoy this wonderful camera and how you use it :D
 

msadat

Member
Both batteries were charged up by last evening. Spent some time updating the firmware and playing with customizations to learn what they all do. Played with various lenses on it to get a feel for them. Juggled a few tripod plates to see what works well.

Like the SL, I've found so far that I generally prefer to use my R lenses on it, rather than the much more compact M lenses, because they make more sense to my fingers on this kind of camera body and viewing system. It's a nice, small, light body to work with on a copy stand or tripod. The WiFi remote control via smartphone and tablet make it convenient. The controls are easy to understand and simple enough to learn quickly. Etc.

I have my Macro-Elmarit-R 60 right here, still have to hunt up my Macro-Elmar-R f/4 and Focusing Bellows R, and Elmarit-R 19mm. Both my R50s, the R90, and the R180, plus extenders and tubes, are right here too. The Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 is on the camera at present for a beauty shot:



Haven't yet made an exposure with it. Just going slow, getting familiar. No rush. :D

I think the CL is going to work out nicely for what I bought it to do. Remember that I'm not particularly interested in it for my general shooting needs.. I bought it to complement my M-D and other cameras for the niche things that I've had a gap with since I sent the SL off to be sold—a TTL viewing body compatible with my tabletop, macro, and copy work.

From an ergonomic point of view, it's a little small for my hands for general shooting, but I'm sure I'll get used to it if I decide to use it for that. :)

just a reminder that peak design had a recall on the tiny straps which I think u r using, free upgrade. The new ones are thicker
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
just a reminder that peak design had a recall on the tiny straps which I think u r using, free upgrade. The new ones are thicker
Yes: I've gotten four of the upgrades so far with the Leash strap I bought to use with the CL. I've lost the memo which tells how to get upgrades for the others... lessee: I need two each for the two Field Pouches, and four for the larger strap I use for the Field Pouch. I've been planning to call them and keep forgetting ... I'll do it now. Thanks for the reminder!

BTW: I've never had one wear out or break so far, but why risk it? :)

G
 
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