is leica m ready for an evf?

[msadat]

i think so, the technology has advanced enough plus Leica can even take it a step further and put a great EVF in the camera. this will simplify the camera alot and they can pack a lot more technolgy into. or may be like the fuji x-pro 2 and make it a hybird

 

[KeithL]

Yes please, although, of course, it will no longer be an M. No hybrid please, just an EVF of the quality of the one in the SL.

It wouldn't replace my rangefinder M but it would give me a wonderful alternative.

 

[Vivek]

Take the RF coupling out, make it cheaper with consistent quality. Add a swivel LCD please.

 

[ptomsu]

I think this was the rumoured FF CM (or whatever the name) of this spring. Maybe what the CL should have been - FF :banghead:

I would applaud Leica for bringing such a camera and finally make the final step with their M system into the future of photography. But PLEASE also add IBIS :thumbs:

 

[msadat]

This will make the lenses simpler to make and more affordable which means they can sell more. I am sure they have discussed this sort of thing at Leica but wonder how comes it does not come into the planning stages

 

[jdphoto]

Agreed, the CL should have been FF.

 

[Godfrey]

Perhaps I'm being contrarian, but ...

• The Leica M is perfect as it is in the M-D typ 262 or M10, depending upon whether you want an LCD and Live View features, or not. I prefer not. There's no need to change it, nor is there any motivation because Leica sells as many as they can make already. To change it to be an EVF camera is to make a different camera, and that camera should have the L mount which is already proven an excellent design.

• The Leica CL is also near-perfect just as it is, modulo your favorite nitpicky preferences. I personally prefer that it has the smaller APS-C format sensor, which means the native lenses made for it specifically can be smaller and lighter than lenses for a full frame model, and you can get equivalent field of view range with shorter focal lengths. The EVF could be a little better, as in the SL model, but that would also mean higher cost for the camera and a little more obtrusive viewfinder bulge.

A full-frame version of the CL would definitely be a good thing as well, and that's what I was expecting the rumored CM to be. A couple of minor upgrades (EVF, etc) and it would be the modern Leica RF-like kit that so many seem to pine for. It may yet happen.

G

 

[GrahamWelland]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. My Leica M246 and M10 both have optical AND access to EVF viewfinders for when the need arises. For example, I never use the optical VF/rangefinder for the WATE anymore and find the external EVF far superior anyway. Similarly, for some longer lenses such as the 90 or 135, I'll use the external EVF if I feel that I need more accurate focusing.

I can't see Leica ever backing down to replace the rangefinder with only an EVF given the traditional nature of the camera plus the fact that the CMOS cameras have options for both live view or an external EVF. As mentioned, certainly they can do it, but it would no longer be called an M rangefinder.

Just my $0.02 :watch:

 

[msadat]

all the L mount lenses are big, most of the m lenses are small. how cool would a modern m be? a simple camera that takes m lenses just like sony deals with manual lenses

 

[airfrogusmc]

I own Leica M because of the OVF. I really don't care for Fuji so I'm glad Leica M is a real alternative instead of trying to be like all the rest.

I, for one, am very glad it is nothing like Sony.

 

[thompsonkirk]

Leica needs to just get on with it. I’m sure I’m not the only one hanging onto Leica lenses and waiting for an up-to-date sensor in a body that handles like M4.

In the meantime I’m using an RX1rII, and M lenses on Sony (Kolari) and sometimes GFX.

Kirk

 

[Godfrey]

all the L mount lenses are big, most of the m lenses are small. how cool would a modern m be? a simple camera that takes m lenses just like sony deals with manual lenses

T and TL series lenses (for T, TL, TL2, and CL bodies) are pretty similar in size to modern Leica M lenses, by and large. Modern Leica M lenses are fairly bulky compared to the older models.

Leica needs to just get on with it. I’m sure I’m not the only one hanging onto Leica lenses and waiting for an up-to-date sensor in a body that handles like M4. ...

The Leica M-D typ 262 and M10 have as modern a sensor as anyone really needs, handle very much like an M4 (particularly the M-D), and Leica lenses perform better on them than they do an any other manufacturers' body with adaptation, modified sensor or not. Been there, done that, tossed the others after comparing results.

G

 

[GrahamWelland]

Btw, since we're discussing the M, then it is probably is worth revisiting what the M in Leica M actually means: Meßsucher, which in this context translates to "rangefinder".

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

This debate may be slowing down the appearance of just a few more lenses that the CL could use (fast wide angles, such as a 16/1.4, and a long f/4 with an APO extender).

But the OVF is still a great advantage. I recently shot a few scenes at an event with m10 and a 24/2.8, using the OVF while focusing, and just occasionally checking with a 25mm viewfinder on top. This worked just fine. Then I was outdoors on a bright sunny day with the SL and its 16-35. It was nice to have that great lens, but I found myself using my left hand to give enough shade to frame accurately through the EVF, making the whole package a bit hard to hold onto. Has anyone found a cinema eyeshade that will go on the SL for sunny days?

 

[Godfrey]

... Then I was outdoors on a bright sunny day with the SL and its 16-35. It was nice to have that great lens, but I found myself using my left hand to give enough shade to frame accurately through the EVF, making the whole package a bit hard to hold onto. Has anyone found a cinema eyeshade that will go on the SL for sunny days?

This is the problem that ALL LCD/EVFs have compared to the M's tunnel optical viewfinder: The illumination of the EVF is an encapsulated light source that can't compete against bright sunlight. It's there for SLR reflex finders too, but less since they are transmitting the ambient light through the camera, they keep up better than the EVF can. It's particularly bad for the EVF because the user is usually wearing eye protection at the same time (dark and/or polarized sunglasses).

The shape of my eyebrow, nose, and cheekbone—plus wearing glasses!—makes those kinds of cinema eyeshades absolutely useless for me; I haven't even looked at them for thirty years or more after trying to use one for years. They never did anything but make it harder to see clearly. Instead, when I'm going out to shoot on a sunny, bright day, I wear a wide-brimmed hat and use a set of sunglasses with less tinting and no polarization. Also, it's conditions like this when I turn on focus peaking and learn to judge proper focus not by the actual image on the screen but by the spread and movement of the focus peaking when I turn the focusing ring. That's the technique I used for this hand-held shot yesterday of the Mary Avenue Pedestrian Bridge:

Leica CL + Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4
ISO 100 @ f/4 @ 1/800​

The focus plane came out right where I wanted it.

... If I'm working on a tripod for a static subject, I use a dark cloth. Makes me look a little funny, but eh? To quote an old friend, "Why do you care what anybody else thinks?"

G

"Where there's a will, there's a way."

 

[jdphoto]

Leica would be foolish to have an EVF in an M camera. The gestalt of Leica M is why it is so appealing and satisfying to use. As previously mentioned, I sold my CL and Q because they were, for me, unusable in bright ambient lighting for professional shoots. If your going to put an EVF on a camera, why not at least, make a useable, deeper shade to offset Leica's inadequate design. A characteristic of EVF's is the associated eye strain that accompanies longer shoots or low light photography. Imo, it's a gimmick that requires more batteries to be considered useful for my style of shooting.

 

[msadat]

you are assuming and thinking about the SL evf, which is very old now. imagine the leap Leica made with the SL back then and the new technology avilaible now. Wow what an EVF it could be!

This debate may be slowing down the appearance of just a few more lenses that the CL could use (fast wide angles, such as a 16/1.4, and a long f/4 with an APO extender).

But the OVF is still a great advantage. I recently shot a few scenes at an event with m10 and a 24/2.8, using the OVF while focusing, and just occasionally checking with a 25mm viewfinder on top. This worked just fine. Then I was outdoors on a bright sunny day with the SL and its 16-35. It was nice to have that great lens, but I found myself using my left hand to give enough shade to frame accurately through the EVF, making the whole package a bit hard to hold onto. Has anyone found a cinema eyeshade that will go on the SL for sunny days?

 

[Godfrey]

you are assuming and thinking about the SL evf, which is very old now. imagine the leap Leica made with the SL back then and the new technology avilaible now. Wow what an EVF it could be!

I haven't seen anything announced or produced in EVF technology that surpasses what is in the Leica SL at this time. It remains the highest resolution, best performing EVF available at the present time.

The SL is not quite three years since official release as yet: "Back then" and "very old" seems a good bit of overstatement. The pace of LCD panel development is not all that fast, just like imager sensor development has slowed to a crawl in terms of actual "breakthrough" improvements.

Please try to name a single camera which has a better EVF than what has been in the Leica SL since it was released in November 2015 ...

G

BTW: I consider the slowed pace of development a GOOD thing. I am so tired of the 'camera du jour' nonsense of the past decade and a half! The camera companies have produced such a mountain of now outdated equipment with little incremental development to improve its operation and make it really nice... Leica has done well by their customers by standing with the excellent SL hardware and incrementally refining its operation with useful firmware updates and improved finesse.

 

[msadat]

now imagine an electronic range finder

Btw, since we're discussing the M, then it is probably is worth revisiting what the M in Leica M actually means: Meßsucher, which in this context translates to "rangefinder".

 

[Godfrey]

now imagine an electronic range finder

Sure: Difficult to see in bright light ...

G