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What's up with this M10D?

D&A

Well-known member
I saw the Digital Camera World post:
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...l-rangefinder-with-no-screen-set-for-comeback

Apparently it'll support the EVF which certainly makes it interesting.
One thing that caught my eye in that Digital Camera World post that didn't make sense was the following: >>>"Leica seems to be about to announce a digital camera that goes right back to basics, and doesn't even have a built-in rangefinder."<<<

Doesn't have a build-in rangefinder??? That's hard to believe and that alone would remove it from being a "M" camera (in my opinion).

Dave (D&A)
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
No rangefinder? I think that the author mistook LCD and rangefinder. No rangefinder wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever. :facesmack:
 
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Knorp

Well-known member
A Leica M without rangefinder ? Of course it makes sense ! Remember f.i. the model MDa with the Visoflex system ?

images-4.jpeg
 

Robert Campbell

Well-known member
There is an 'advance' lever whose function is uncertain. There is no obvious on/off switch; is this what the 'advance' lever is for? I haven't seen any front views, so can't comment on whether there is a rangefinder or not. Seems very unlikely that there wouldn't be one; how would you focus in the absence of an EVF?
 

DB5

Member
There is an 'advance' lever whose function is uncertain. There is no obvious on/off switch; is this what the 'advance' lever is for? I haven't seen any front views, so can't comment on whether there is a rangefinder or not. Seems very unlikely that there wouldn't be one; how would you focus in the absence of an EVF?
on/off switch is part of the dial on the back (the old iso dial) Advance lever will surely be for manual cocking of the shutter.

I'm sure there will be a rangefinder.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
All I can say is “Look how accurate all these rumors were when they were calling the new CM the bees’ knees.”

G
 

scho

Well-known member
There is an 'advance' lever whose function is uncertain. There is no obvious on/off switch; is this what the 'advance' lever is for? I haven't seen any front views, so can't comment on whether there is a rangefinder or not. Seems very unlikely that there wouldn't be one; how would you focus in the absence of an EVF?
Shades of the old Epson RD1. I loved that camera.





Old review
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
The thing I liked least about the R-D1 was the manual wind lever, but for it that anachronism was a matter of the fact that the body was derived from an existing film body.

Not so with any M10 variant...
 
Leica rumors now has more pictures of it, including front ones.

https://leicarumors.com/2018/10/19/more-pictures-of-the-leica-m10-d-camera.aspx/#more-54851

It definitely has rangefinder. Interestingly they mention film advance lever serving no special purpose. I find that a bit hard to believe. Leica is not in a habit to add things of no purpose. Could it be there just to serve as thumb rest? Or perhaps possibility to use it for cranking, when operating in silent mode?

I’ll follow the developments with interest. I could possibly imagine myself trading from M10 to this. I haven’t had much interest in trading the M10 to anything and I can see this being the final nail to coffin in stopping the GAS completely.

The simplest/purest sense of digital camera. Image quality is at a level already, where it passes easily my skills. There’s enough high iso with my fast lenses, where anything more results in situtation where I can’t really focus with RF as the light levels are already so low.

This move would take the screen etc things out from the desire to upgrade.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
It appears this introduction is tied to the new smart phone software . While this has some appeal ....how can it compare to simply using a decent LCD for capture review .

Checking every capture as they occur tends to break the “flow” . I find that rhythm is important in street photography . No time to be inspecting for critical focus , evaluating depth of field etc . However ....checking composition ...looking for clean edges etc can be important .

While I like the idea of having the ability to ..on demand ....review captures on a smart phone ......having an M body with no LCD seems counter productive . :banghead:
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
So lessee... Assuming that these photos show the real thing:

  • They put the ISO way over on the left where it isn't very handy compared to the M-D's rear thumbwheel.
  • They put the EV Compensation control concentric to the On-Off-WiFi switch where the ISO control used to be. That's more convenience to use the EV compensation control than the thumbwheel+button press, but less convenient to turn the camera on and off than having the on/off switch on the shutter release. How do I turn on the self timer?
  • The thumbwheel is still there. Does it also adjust the EV compensation? and does it still toggle display of the battery/shots left in the viewfinder?
  • WiFi enabled, Visoflex 020 enabled. Visoflex supposes that you'll use adapted lenses. I use R lenses and M lenses. How do I pick which lens profile? Is that new function of the thumbwheel and button? How do I configure the WiFi?
  • The advance lever looking thing: What good is it? It will get in the way of the shutter time selector if I leave it folded, and it will get in my way if I pull it out since I don't use a thumb rest, and don't want one. It can poke left eye shooters in the right eye too. Does it actually cock the shutter? Why? Utter crap.

If you want the barest essentials digital Leica M camera, the Leica M-D typ 262 does it better. The M-D needs no WiFi, no LeicaFOTOS app, no Visoflex 020 to be 100% complete and do all the photography you want. With this M10-D, assuming that it really is as pictured, you have that bunch of extra things needed to have the complete kit.

The measure of this kind of camera's desirability to me lies in leaving out what is not necessary. I'm glad I have my M-D, even if I would find the Visoflex handy and the improvements to sensor and viewfinder appealing. I have other cameras that support all that stuff and more that make more sense. If I wanted all that stuff in an M, I'll most likely buy an M10 or M10-P.

I await Leica's actual announcement of this camera and its actual form, and then their explanation for why these changes should appeal to me.

G
 
I await Leica's actual announcement of this camera and its actual form, and then their explanation for why these changes should appeal to me.
According to the rumor sites, the announcement will be on October 23rd, so we don't have long to wait. I am hoping that the photo is a fake. The advance lever is ludicrous. Next will be a model with a rewind crank. Turn it 36 times and the SD card pops out.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
The camera is supposed to support EVF. This would enable exact framing.
Why would you use the slow and poor quality EVF solution with the M10 ? Spend $7K + for a RF camera and turn it into an EVF ILC ? Its a work around which can be avoided with plenty of great EVF systems .

Other than giving the camera a retro appearance ....what advantage is there for leaving the LCD out ?
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Maybe the film-advance lever charges the battery? Still, removing the LCD might help EVF sales. Perhaps they have unsold stock. It is just a pity the EVF seem to be in the way of the film-advance lever, which means you cannot charge while using the EVF, or something...

Still, I give Leica credit. How many companies have come up with one idea and run with it for so long? It makes the Fuji X Pro series viewfinder seem so, well, modern...
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Why would you use the slow and poor quality EVF solution with the M10 ? Spend $7K + for a RF camera and turn it into an EVF ILC ? Its a work around which can be avoided with plenty of great EVF systems .

Other than giving the camera a retro appearance ....what advantage is there for leaving the LCD out ?
The EVF used on a Leica M enables the M to be extended for other uses, like copywork with a macro setup, etc. If you normally shoot with an M and don't have another camera, being able to extend the same camera for occasional needs like this is a plus, even if it doesn't provide the more sophisticated viewfinder and other features of cameras like the SL and CL. Not everyone wants to buy multiple cameras so they can handle every possible, infrequently run into shooting situation.

(To be sure, if my M-D had supported use of the EVF, I likely would not have bought the CL after I sold the SL. But I'm glad I bought the CL anyway.)

Regards "leaving the LCD out": as I wrote on another forum ...

...The notion is to minimize the distraction of menus, settings, chimping, etc. To reduce the digital camera to the same basics that made a film M great: concentrate on focus and exposure, concentrate on the subject only. All the configuration controls, menus, and their attendant buttons can be done away with when you don't have an LCD and don't have the distractions of camera configuration needs or image review in your face. ...

Of course, the ability to review a photo immediately is a great advantage of digital cameras with LCDs, and the multiplicity of configuration options is another. But there are plenty of cameras around that give you these things, and only two that don't: the M Edition 60 and the M-D typ 262.
The problem, as I see it, with this proposed M10-D and its silly advance lever is that it has become a mixture of the 'only the essence', minimized distraction concept and the 'keep it simple but extend it with other devices' design memes. I don't find it that appealing on that basis; whether others do I cannot say. Only the sales will tell for sure.

I remain very very glad I own the M-D typ 262. :D

G
 

Shashin

Well-known member
The problem, as I see it, with this proposed M10-D and its silly advance lever is that it has become a mixture of the 'only the essence', minimized distraction concept and the 'keep it simple but extend it with other devices' design memes.
I think the word you are looking for is skeuomorph--making digital camera look like film camera
 
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