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Thread: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

  1. #1
    Vivek
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    7 Artisans 28/1.4

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    Super Duper
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Yes, I've been keeping an eye on this one. Any indication of release date and price?
    Carl
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  3. #3
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    I have been told next week. I suspect the price will be ~€525.

  4. #4
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Already available and for less than what I expected..




    Last edited by Vivek; 22nd November 2018 at 07:19.
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  5. #5
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4



    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Bart ...

  7. #7
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    it looks bigger than a breadbox! Wait, maybe what's inside is a breadbox......never mind.

    We all do though want to know how it performs.

    Dave (D&A)

  8. #8
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    I can tell you that right out the box, the RF was spot on on my MM! Sharp wide open! Really really impressive!
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I can tell you that right out the box, the RF was spot on on my MM! Sharp wide open! Really really impressive!
    .

    Thanks for your initial impression. The one thing that has some concerned is when shooting into a bright light source at near wide open apature, a very large ring of light (flair), is produced on a large portion of the image. I've seen examples of this. I also heard the manufacturer is trying to address the issue.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 3rd December 2018 at 17:20.

  10. #10
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Dave, I have not encountered that yet. Early days.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Leica MM, 7 Artisans 28/1.4, f/1.4, ISO320, 1/2000s
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Dave, I have not encountered that yet. Early days.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Leica MM, 7 Artisans 28/1.4, f/1.4, ISO320, 1/2000s
    .

    Of course I understand. Someone posted a pic of this unusual flair and I was a bit surprised how large and prominent it was, especially it's shape, but then again at its price point it truly appears to be quite a bargin.

    Dave (D&A)

  12. #12
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    I tried many snaps shooting directly into street lights. The ring is produced only in some angles. It is inconsistent.

    Here is an example of the ring (on my Monochrome A7rII, not a Leica. There was a filter on the lens. f/1.4).

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Why would I want to change this?

    (FWIW, the rest of the flare you see here is similar to the ones produced by the Summarit M 35/2.5)
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  13. #13
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Cheaper than a lens hood for the Summilux M 28/1.4!

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    .

    Of course I understand. Someone posted a pic of this unusual flair and I was a bit surprised how large and prominent it was, especially it's shape, but then again at its price point it truly appears to be quite a bargin.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Here is an additional example of the flair (the top pic),shown as posted on RRF by the forum member "chambrenoire". The size and shape looks very similar to the flair shown in the center of your image "above"
    .


    David (D&A)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	v9t1SUo.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	833.9 KB 
ID:	137692  
    Last edited by D&A; 4th December 2018 at 14:01.

  15. #15
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    David, you can’t just attach an image from someone else without permission. Atleast, say whose image it is!

  16. #16
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    For more info on the lens, check this thread:

    https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1571767

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    David, you can’t just attach an image from someone else without permission. Atleast, say whose image it is!
    Thank you. I forgot to attribute the referenced image to a specific poster on RRF. It's now been corrected. I've also been following that thread on FM. Much appreciated.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 4th December 2018 at 16:25.
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  18. #18
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    All shot under miserable conditions at f/1.4 on Leica MM. There was no filter or lens hood on the lens.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
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  19. #19
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Same as above. No sharpening or geometric corrections applied.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Just received my copy today from 7Artisans. I ordered last week via email to Angel in sales at 7Artisans. Very quick process and free express shipping to USA via DHL. I don't know yet whether I have the "new" version recently released or the "old" ring flare prone version. I'll test it tonight and report back with images. Build quality seems to be excellent and focusing is smooth. Both aperture and focusing rings seem to be just right, not tight or loose fitting. We are still stuck in gray, damp cold weather so no decent pics to post yet. I will test on my Leica M, Sony A7RII, and Sony A7R (m).
    Carl
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Just received my copy today from 7Artisans. I ordered last week via email to Angel in sales at 7Artisans. Very quick process and free express shipping to USA via DHL. I don't know yet whether I have the "new" version recently released or the "old" ring flare prone version. I'll test it tonight and report back with images. Build quality seems to be excellent and focusing is smooth. Both aperture and focusing rings seem to be just right, not tight or loose fitting. We are still stuck in gray, damp cold weather so no decent pics to post yet. I will test on my Leica M, Sony A7RII, and Sony A7R (m).
    My light test last night was not conclusive. I didn't actually go outside - just shot street lamps and xmas lights through a window. There was no evidence of ring flare shooting at f/1.4, but I will try again when weather is more cooperative. Currently we have -5C and 20 mph winds so I didn't brave the elements for any serious testing. I asked 7Artisans if they sent me the new version or old, but they didn't know. Other than shooting at lights any other way to determine new vs old without dismantling the lens? Took a few indoor shots today and so far I am liking this lens.

    Leica M (262) 7Artisans 28/1.4 at f/4



    Sony A7R (m) 7Artisans 28/1.4 at f/4

    Carl
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  22. #22
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Hi Carl, glad you have yours. As some of my snaps above show, the ring flare, wide open, is not present all the time.

    Not much to worry about in either case. Just a fabulous lens!

    My search now is on to find a proper compact hood for the lens (to take care of a veiling flare).

    I think 7 Artisans should have made and supplied one with the lens.
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    [QUOTE=scho;775174]My light test last night was not conclusive. I didn't actually go outside - just shot street lamps and xmas lights through a window. There was no evidence of ring flare shooting at f/1.4, but I will try again when weather is more cooperative. Currently we have -5C and 20 mph winds so I didn't brave the elements for any serious testing. I asked 7Artisans if they sent me the new version or old, but they didn't know. Other than shooting at lights any other way to determine new vs old without dismantling the lens? Took a few indoor shots today and so far I am liking this lens.

    Looking at your images,I think this lens is a gem. There are several 28mm F1.4 lenses offered by variety of makers but they cant "afford" to sell at a lower price,even if they could afford.
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  24. #24
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    There are exactly two 28/1.4 for Leica M, AFAIK.

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    There are several 28mm F1.4 lenses offered by variety of makers but they cant "afford" to sell at a lower price,even if they could afford.
    If I do win the lottery, I will buy a Summilux M 28/1.4. I had no idea that a 28/1.4 would be useful and fun until I bought the 7 Artisans 28/1.4.

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There are exactly two 28/1.4 for Leica M, AFAIK.



    If I do win the lottery, I will buy a Summilux M 28/1.4. I had no idea that a 28/1.4 would be useful and fun until I bought the 7 Artisans 28/1.4.
    Hello Vivekbhai, did you buy your other expensive stuff with lottery money,if yes you must be a lucky man
    And Summilux as good as 7Artisan!?

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    ...
    And Summilux as good as 7Artisan!?
    Yes, no focus shift, for starters.

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There are exactly two 28/1.4 for Leica M, AFAIK.



    If I do win the lottery, I will buy a Summilux M 28/1.4. I had no idea that a 28/1.4 would be useful and fun until I bought the 7 Artisans 28/1.4.
    Better make that a large lottery win, Vivek. Remember, I'm promised a Thambar!
    Sláinte

    Robert.
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    The 7Artisans 28mm F/1.4 is now in stock at B&H for $480.
    Carl
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The 7Artisans 28mm F/1.4 is now in stock at B&H for $480.
    Carl, Are latest samples any different to first batch? Its about flare.
    Thanks.

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    Carl, Are latest samples any different to first batch? Its about flare.
    Thanks.
    I think that currently shipping lenses have been corrected for "ring flare". I have not had this issue yet with my copy (ordered direct from 7Artisans).
    Carl
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  31. #31
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Carl, Could you check again if your sample has the ring flare wide open? I am communicating with the 7Artisans and the claim now is that there is only one version (all with ring flare)!

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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Carl, Could you check again if your sample has the ring flare wide open? I am communicating with the 7Artisans and the claim now is that there is only one version (all with ring flare)!
    That is interesting. They told me that there is a corrected version. I will try again and report back, but last time I tried there was no ring flare.
    Carl
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  33. #33
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Carl, After many back and forth, I convinced them that the ring flare is what they kept claiming as the “spot” issue!

    Finally they relented and said that they will replace my sample. I can return mine in Feb.

    Yes, the first version (“only a few samples were made” according to them) is no more.

    All the samples sold now are the ring flare free version.
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Hamish Gill updated his website stating there were only 100 samples with ring flare &^%*().
    So those flowed samples might become collectors lenses with ring flare feature.

  35. #35
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Anyone interested in the "collector's edition" with ring flare has until late January to contact me to buy it off of me.
    I will sell for the current street price here.

  36. #36
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Hi,

    I've read what reviews and feedback are available for those that have used/tested this lens and especially the very helpful images and comments of those participating in this thread. I have used and tested a number of 28mm f1.9/2.0 lenses mounted on various M digitals, but don't quite have a handle on how sharp both centrally and towards the edges/sides/corners of the frame this lens produces at the more open apertures of f1.4, f2 and f2.8. This is when the image is viewed on a monitor at least with the magnification level of 66% or 100% (actual pixels). I don't expect the sides/corners to equal the central portion of the frame , even at f2.8 but specifically am interested in the performance at these apertures at subject distances of mid-range and longer distances. I know wide open, there will be softness in the image across the frame. This is understandable, but once stopped down to f2 and f2.8, especially at mid range and longer distance, especially towards the sides and corners, is of great interest. Any additional insight is appreciated. I should note, for specific use and large sized prints, knowing the relative performance of the sides and edges at f1.4, f2 and sometimes f2.8 would be useful. greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)

  37. #37
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Hi,

    I have the ZM 35/1.4 and the 7Artisans 28/1.4 at ~1/5 price is an awesome lens.

    My suggestion would be to buy your own and do your tests (that you would do anyway).

    AFAIC, it is for street use at 2~5m distance. I can use it wide open or stopped a bit down (to f/2.8) is just awesome.

    A snap at ~2.8. Whole frame.

    (Both on a monchrome Sony A7rII, 42mp sensor with a 1mm cover glass. No sharpening applied at any stage!)

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    Farther away ~2.5. Wole frame.


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    How do the edges look?

    I still havenot found a proper hood for the lens.
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  38. #38
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Thanks ever so much Vivek. Extremely helpful. What would now help is a couple of distant cityscapes or landscapes taken at F1.4 and F2.0 and be able to see crops of 100 % of the corners and center. Others looks like an exceptional bargin.

    P.S. Here is a link to a 52mm wide vented screw in hood in black.

    https://www.ebay.com/i/162214323326?...d23722ffd80843

    and here is a link to a non vented 52mm wide screw in hood in black.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-metal-...OxyEjpRmhhGave

    Please note: both hoods listed above are metal (not plastic) and quite inexpensive.

    (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 3rd January 2019 at 10:46.
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  39. #39
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Thanks ever so much Vivek. Extremely helpful. What would now help is a couple of distant cityscapes or landscapes taken at F1.4 and F2.0 and be able to see crops of 100 % of the corners and center. Others looks like an exceptional bargin.

    P.S. Here is a link to a 52mm wide vented screw in hood in black.

    https://www.ebay.com/i/162214323326?...d23722ffd80843

    and here is a link to a non vented 52mm wide screw in hood in black.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-metal-...OxyEjpRmhhGave

    Please note: both hoods listed above are metal (not plastic) and quite inexpensive.

    (D&A)
    I purchased this lens hood on Amazon (USA) to use with the 7A 28/1.4 and it works OK without vignetting, but does partially block view finder when used on my Leica M.
    Carl
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  40. #40
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Thanks, Carl. That could be the one.

    Unfortuantely the vented hoods (like the one mentioned by Dave) made for “wide angle” lenses clips the corners (not just vignette!), even without a filter on.

    Nikon HK-2 also unfortunately can not be mounted!



    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I purchased this lens hood on Amazon (USA) to use with the 7A 28/1.4 and it works OK without vignetting, but does partially block view finder when used on my Leica M.
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  41. #41
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Hi All,

    I just purchased and received this lens. Thank you to everyone here in this thread who generously provide enormously helpful feedback, greatly appreciated! Before I express my thoughts regarding my initial observations on very preliminary testing, let me mention what I came across as a potentially good lens hood for the lens. I was a bit hasty yesterday in posting the links to two potential hoods without having the opportunity to try them out and whether they would result in any issues.

    After receiving the lens this morning, I went through my bin of legacy hoods from years past and came across a Minolta D57KE hood (I never have even shot Minolta). It appears almost ideal, stylish, and with just a few quick shots (due to inclement weather), doesn't appear to show any vignetting. A bit further testing will be required but so far looks good.

    I've seen them as cheap as $12.00-14.00, although some list them higher.

    I'll post a link to one for sale with a pic (link is below) and as can be seen, it has a knurled knob that tightens the hood onto the barrel of the lens itself. First the hood easily slides over the front of the barrel and comes to a stop. The knob is then tightened. A filter on the lens is not an issue. As seen in the pic of the hood, the lower half of the hood surrounds the lens barrel and filter. The top half of the hoods above the lens and filter and this is the portion that provides some shade and protection.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Minolta-d57...ILIF:rk:1:pf:0

    The only thing I would caution is although I would never pick up a lens by its hood, regardless how it's attached, since this hood does not screw in but is held by tight friction, it could slide off if one attempted to pick up the lens by the hood, thereby causing the lens underneath to fall. Of course all hoods attached this way have this potential, but the amount of friction holding this hood to this lens is a bit less than usual.

    The hood because it doesn't flair out, and not too long, doesn't add significantly to blockage of the viewfinder vs. the lens without this hood. The shape of the hood matches the lens exceptionally well and complements it. I blackened out the word "Minolta".

    So far looks and functions quite well. OK, onto my initial thoughts in my post directly below.

    Dave (D&A)
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  42. #42
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Just some brief comments about the lens I just received. My very brief preliminary testing, primarily at moderate distance only (primarily due to the inclement weather), echoed what other have found. It's an exceptional performer, especially in light of it's price. Even at f1.4, centrally, it's quite sharp and the outer zones although can't match in resolution are good. I am pleasantly surprised at it's level of performance at f1.4 and its why with reluctance, I will gravitate away from my low light mainstay 28mm, the VC 28mm f1.9.

    I shoot in venues that often require hand held manual focus under extremely low light and need a focal length of approx. 28mm. By f2, its almost ideal edge to edge.

    I haven't tested it at long distances (like landscapes), where often a lenses weakness (especially in the outer zones) will show. I hope to get around to that.


    Not sure if the box it came in, is a newly designed box or for the North American market. It is black color slick looking cardboard and looks like its paper layer all around was glued on possibly revealing something else underneath, if I peeled it off. All the paperwork, sample images, pouch with screw driver for focus adjustment and optional finger focusing grip was in a little plastic pouch.

    Lens sat cradled in a dense foam material. Is this how everyone's lens came?

    Most say their lens required no front/back focus adjustment. I am very critical when it comes to precise focusing at all distances (examine each image at 100% actual pixels), so I spent most of my time with the lens in this regard before I took test images as described above. My copy back focused, not only at close range, but at infinity, where the rangefinder image overshot infinity by a considerable margin. Resulting test images for focusing confirmed this, on all my cameras. Adjustment via their instructions took all of 5 min and lens then focused perfectly and made a world of difference in performance. As others have expressed, why don't all manufacturers of rangefinder lenses, allow quick user adjustment of front/back focus. This design was brilliant.

    I've been using the VC 28mm f1.9 lens (in silver). Its much smaller and lighter and much lower in contrast, making it especially ideal for B&W. It has its advantages but of working in very low light with this focal length, the 7 Artisans 28mm f1.4 is ideal...so I guess I'll put my VC 28mm f1.9 up for sale as there is always something else needed on the horizon.

    Again I appreciate everyone's posted images and descriptions as this truly helped in making an informed purchase decision. Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 5th January 2019 at 03:29.
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  43. #43
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Dave, Thanks for your account. Yes, the packaging is as you describe. Sleek.
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  44. #44
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Thanks. They are pricey here, when found.

    Stop the lens all the way down to see if there is vignetting or clipping. Wide open, you can NOT discern that.

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Hi All,

    I just purchased and received this lens. Thank you to everyone here in this thread who generously provide enormously helpful feedback, greatly appreciated! Before I express my thoughts regarding my initial observations on very preliminary testing, let me mention what I came across as a potentially good lens hood for the lens. I was a bit hasty yesterday in posting the links to two potential hoods without having the opportunity to try them out and whether they would result in any issues.

    After receiving the lens this morning, I went through my bin of legacy hoods from years past and came across a Minolta D57KE hood (I never have even shot Minolta). It appears almost ideal, stylish, and with just a few quick shots (due to inclement weather), doesn't appear to show any vignetting. A bit further testing will be required but so far looks good.

    I've seen them as cheap as $12.00-14.00, although some list them higher.

    I'll post a link to one for sale with a pic (link is below) and as can be seen, it has a knurled knob that tightens the hood onto the barrel of the lens itself. First the hood easily slides over the front of the barrel and comes to a stop. The knob is then tightened. A filter on the lens is not an issue. As seen in the pic of the hood, the lower half of the hood surrounds the lens barrel and filter. The top half of the hoods above the lens and filter and this is the portion that provides some shade and protection.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Minolta-d57...ILIF:rk:1:pf:0

    The only thing I would caution is although I would never pick up a lens by its hood, regardless how it's attached, since this hood does not screw in but is held by tight friction, it could slide off if one attempted to pick up the lens by the hood, thereby causing the lens underneath to fall. Of course all hoods attached this way have this potential, but the amount of friction holding this hood to this lens is a bit less than usual.

    The hood because it doesn't flair out, and not too long, doesn't add significantly to blockage of the viewfinder vs. the lens without this hood. The shape of the hood matches the lens exceptionally well and complements it. I blackened out the word "Minolta".

    So far looks and functions quite well. OK, onto my initial thoughts in my post directly below.

    Dave (D&A)

  45. #45
    Super Duper
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks. They are pricey here, when found.

    Stop the lens all the way down to see if there is vignetting or clipping. Wide open, you can NOT discern that.
    Thanks Vivek. I had intended to say that I checked the hood with the lens stopped all the way down at min focusing distance. I'll test again when the weather clears up here. If I do come across any of these hoods here cheap, I'll let everyone know.

    ADDITION: I just rechecked this hood for vignetting, setting aperture to f16 and focusing to minimum distance as well as focusing distance set to infinity, against white wall and a blue sky. I could detect no light falloff nor actual cut off of any part of the corners. Compared these shots to those taken exactly the same without the hood mounted.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 5th January 2019 at 08:18.
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  46. #46
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    The Leica version has some purple fringing wide open, so is not ideal for night shooting or shooting indoors in the presence of windows and other objects with clear bright/dark edges. How does the new contender perform?

  47. #47
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by jrp View Post
    The Leica version has some purple fringing wide open, so is not ideal for night shooting or shooting indoors in the presence of windows and other objects with clear bright/dark edges. How does the new contender perform?
    Hi,

    Don't take this as gospel, but I performed a quick test for this indoors (wide open) with a extremely bright lamp, with sharp edges and a steep light fall off into dark. I detected no purple fringing but then again I'd would hestotate saying any definitive until I tested further under a wide range of lighting/shooting situations.

    Dave (D&A)
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  48. #48
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Do you mean the Summilux M 28/1.4 has CA wide open? That is surprising to hear.

    The 7 Artisans 28/1.4 (it is available only in Leica M mount) does not suffer from that.

    Also, there are no profiles available for this lens. Despite that, aberrations are barely noticeable.

    Do try one.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrp View Post
    The Leica version has some purple fringing wide open, so is not ideal for night shooting or shooting indoors in the presence of windows and other objects with clear bright/dark edges. How does the new contender perform?
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  49. #49
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Do you mean the Summilux M 28/1.4 has CA wide open? That is surprising to hear.

    The 7 Artisans 28/1.4 (it is available only in Leica M mount) does not suffer from that.

    Also, there are no profiles available for this lens. Despite that, aberrations are barely noticeable.

    Do try one.
    I agree with Vivek. An outstanding M mount lens that performs well on both a Leica M rangefinder or Sony A7Rx. Also works well with TAP on my A7RII.
    Carl
    Gallery
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  50. #50
    Vivek
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    Re: 7 Artisans 28/1.4

    There is a new lens hood introduced by 7 Artisans. It is listed on eBay.
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