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panasonic sr1 cameras and impact on leica

msadat

Member
how would Leica compete with Panasonic when it comes to cameras. they have shorter cycles when it comes to rolling out new cameras and they are a technology power house. would leica be a lens partner then? i think in this deal panasonic did good.

should we see a rebranding of the Panasonic new cameras as Leicas?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
agreed, SL is a nice camera, but a 47 meg sl with some improvements is going to cost about 7~8 k
...or maybe they can bring a 47 megapixel SL in at $6k and keep selling the existing SL alongside it as an “entry model” for $4k or so. It would be a win/win for those that want a Leica and not a Lumix.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Its simple Leica doesn t compete with the other makers in any meaningful way . I have been a fan boy and owner since I was in high school ..never once did I compare and analyze the features against other makers . The only value proposition I cared about was “can I afford it “ ...not is camera N or C a better value . Increasingly the issue with Leica is the huge premium required to up grade ....eg. M10 to M10-P or the decision to limit the S007 to 40MPs or the decision to keep the SL at 24MPs . Those are the factors that are killing Leica .

I think a fair comparison would be ....do I prefer the larger sensor advantages of a EVF / MF option like Fuji or HB . Or do I need better AF / focus follow like the sports versions of Nikon,Canon and now Sony .

Right now Leica is competing with itself ..plenty of M/SL/S and Q owners would buy again if the MP were increased .

What is a shame about the Panasonic S1R is they didn t put a first class AF system in it ? I doubt the Leica SL 2 will have one either . :banghead:
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I believe over the last years Leica was clever to generate new products in segments, where no real direct competition existed.
They were the first with "small medium" format camera. When they brought the S system there ws no other MF camera that portabel and fast.
When they presented the SL there was no other mirrorless that "professional". The TL as something new and the CL is the smallest dx-camera with interchangable lenses.

However other followed into those niches. Hassy xcd and Fuji into the S niche, and now Panasonic, Nikon and Canon into the professional mirrorless segment.
And they do it with a hard price "battle".

Looks like Leica has a good feeling for innovations and where the future will go. But then (IMO) they are too slow to develop those systems and let them grow and bring improved new generations.

Regarding the new Panasonic... for me the choice between SL (which I own) - SR1 and SLII will depend on 2 or 3 factors:
1) how good will be the output in regards of resolution but also color and other IQ factors (color might be one area here I would expect some differences between Pana and Leica)
2) how good will work the user interface for me (I do like Leicas reduced approach, but the Pana looks very well too)
3) pricing - however 1) and 2) will be more important for me.

I would have no problem to mix systems. For example a 70-200/4.0 sounds very attractive to me , if it will be considerable smaller than the 90-280.
In the end I think its great 3 companies have agreed on the same mount. I love the 16-35 and the 50SL and also the 24-90. Having the Choice for a new body between Pana and Leica is cool. And it puts pressure (and motivation) to both to offer a good body and lenses for competitive prices.

I assume Leica will go for 110% optical quality at somewhat higher price , and Pany on 98% optical quality for a "less high" price.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
However other followed into those niches. Hassy xcd and Fuji into the S niche, and now Panasonic, Nikon and Canon into the professional mirrorless segment. And they do it with a hard price "battle".
Maybe off-topic for this discussion but is there a specific reason you left Sony off the "professional mirrorless" list? I would think that especially the A9 (and maybe even the A7Riii) is more "professional" than most of the others you mention. I'm not trying to argue, but just trying to uderstand your reasoning.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Maybe off-topic for this discussion but is there a specific reason you left Sony off the "professional mirrorless" list? I would think that especially the A9 (and maybe even the A7Riii) is more "professional" than most of the others you mention. I'm not trying to argue, but just trying to uderstand your reasoning.
1) I forgot to mention it
2) A7 series still seems to have more of that "FF in small size with many MP" approach than the "can be sized like a DSLR but should offer very good user interface and grip" of the SL or the Panasonic and Nikon/Canon mirrorless. But yes, now when you say it probably also a good system in this catagory.
 

Robert Campbell

Well-known member
Reading about the Pana SR1 and its autofocus, I wonder if there is more to the L-mount Alliance than meets the eye. As well as throat dimensions and contacts, is the method of autofocus included? What else might be in common?

Is it fair to suggest that the Pana is primarily a video camera with stills capability, and the Leica SL primarily a stills camera with video capability?
 

msadat

Member
i am not sure the autofocus is part of the pact; but for now, Leica gets it's from Panasonic. so Leica can make good to great lenses and Panasonic can make much better cameras. thats a good marriage! may be leica can not start making leneses for canon and nikon too
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
Reading about the Pana SR1 and its autofocus, I wonder if there is more to the L-mount Alliance than meets the eye. As well as throat dimensions and contacts, is the method of autofocus included? What else might be in common?

Is it fair to suggest that the Pana is primarily a video camera with stills capability, and the Leica SL primarily a stills camera with video capability?
This iteration of Panasonic cameras are photography focused. A version geared more towards video (with 8K video) is supposed to come in 2020.
 

msadat

Member
would Leica rebadge the sr1 cameras as new SL or variants, as they do regularly with other Panasonic cameras
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
would Leica rebadge the sr1 cameras as new SL or variants, as they do regularly with other Panasonic cameras
I’m not so sure that Panasonic isn’t already producing the electronics for the current SL given that Leica is the ONLY non-Panasonic camera brand with DFD products. In any case, they could drop the price of the current SL to $4k (for those that want a cheaper Leica option that doesn’t require additional R&D) and continue to sell it alongside a “SL2” with higher megapixels at the current price of the SL.
 
I’m not so sure that Panasonic isn’t already producing the electronics for the current SL given that Leica is the ONLY non-Panasonic camera brand with DFD products. In any case, they could drop the price of the current SL to $4k (for those that want a cheaper Leica option that doesn’t require additional R&D) and continue to sell it alongside a “SL2” with higher megapixels at the current price of the SL.
There are rumors of a new Leica Q2 with 47MP sensor, which is presumably the same sensor as in the SR1, so surely a 47MP SL2 can't be far behind.
 

msadat

Member
i also do think that a lot of Panasonic technology is in sl, so does it make sense to put it all under a new skin called sl2 or rebrand the sr1 camera, time will tell!
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Leica has a long (and likely quite successful) history of partnering with less expensive camera manufacturers in Japan to either collaborate on or supply entire cameras to them. You have the original CL with Minolta, the Leica R bodies from R3 to R7 I believe, Fuji for some of the compacts, panasonic etc etc. I believe the Summarit M lenses were made in Japan as well, and certainly some of the T series lenses. This is nothing that new. Leica is smart about keeping their premiere products to themselves. Keep in mind that Leica had no trouble selling M cameras when Konica was making the Hexar RF alongside it...a camera which was far more technically advanced than the M cameras.

I grant you that the situation here is a little different, but I am sure Leica will be coming out with an SL2 which will offer something to Leica SL owners who want to upgrade, but prefer Leica's design and build. I expect that it will be comparable to Panasonic in resolution and EVF quality, while likely focusing more on build quality. It also remains to be seen how well the S1 and S1R support Leica M and S lenses, which will be another point of differentiation. To this point, as far as I am aware, only the SL supports S lenses, and it is the only mirrorless camera that M lenses work with as well (or nearly as well) as they do on an M camera. As an owner of an M10 and A7Rii, I can assure you that there is a night and day difference in lens performance when using the same lenses on the two bodies...at least with lenses 75mm and shorter.

That said, the S1 and S1R will light a proverbial fire under Leica...but I suppose that is another advantage to their collaboration, they have clearly been aware of the S1 and S1R for quite awhile since Panasonic needed their clearance to use the lens mount, and this has surely given them plenty of time to plan and adapt their strategy to deal with it. I think this partnership is going to be really positive for all concerned. Panasonic gets the professional cachet of a lens mount that is stocked with no compromise lenses, Leica gets more customers for their lenses and more ability to bring in "entry level" users and price sensitive users, adding to their ecosystem and bringing in potential future customers while also having some measure of control and planning over their competition, since they surely are coordinating their product releases. Customers get more choice and more price points. It seems like a good thing to me, especially when the pro camera market is getting increasingly competitive...Fuji and Hasselblad are pushing Leica hard at the MF end, and Sony, Fuji, Nikon and Canon are pushing hard from the 35mm and smaller end. I think this partnership is probably a good move to keep up.
 

algrove

Well-known member
I recall some years ago the the Panasonic GF1 had very good color profiles built in to the camera and the AF back then was fine for my uses-not street.

I also wonder if Leica is waiting to see actual S1R sales before rleasing their answer in the form of an SL2.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I recall some years ago the the Panasonic GF1 had very good color profiles built in to the camera and the AF back then was fine for my uses-not street.

I also wonder if Leica is waiting to see actual S1R sales before rleasing their answer in the form of an SL2.
My guess is that the SL2 will be the S1R in a Leica external package, with dual SD card slots, and a Leica menu system.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
My guess is that the SL2 will be the S1R in a Leica external package, with dual SD card slots, and a Leica menu system.
If I were Leica I would exactly do that. And yes, it should (and most probably will) take the SL batteries :cool:
 
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