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Thread: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

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    a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Following on from participating in Dave's thread on "a modern SWC" in medium format digital ...
    https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...odern-swc.html
    ... I thought a thread in the Leica forum concentrating on the CL used with this amazing Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6 lens might be apropos. I posted a few photos already in Dave's thread; here are a few more photos.

    ---
    All of these with the Leica CL and Voigtländer Hyper-Wide 10mm.
    Some are more heavily processed than my usual.

    From last Sunday's cycle ride around and in San Jose, it was Father's Day and the restaurant next door to the cafe I stopped at was hosting a private family party. A few minutes after I sat down with my snack/lunch, the party broke and a huge wave of folks spilled onto the sidewalk...



    One of the musicians from the party pulled his rental scooter over and sat down to rest a moment. I guess he was tuckered out by the party.



    I was having a grand day's ride and pushing ... realized I hadn't eaten since an early breakfast and needed some calories ... so a quick cafe snack for lunch.



    Next stop on my ride was Japan Town. I wanted to make a photograph of the memorial there to see how the ultrawide lens would work, but I couldn't help a little beauty shot of my bicycle parked on the corner.



    This is really what I stopped for: I've often tried to get a good photograph of the memorial but it's difficult because the ideal place to stand is right in the middle of a busy intersection. The ultrawide lens allowed me to be closer and still capture the whole thing, albeit not with my usual square crop but with the full format, then crop to a long 16:9 proportion. I decided a diptych was the right way to present it, showing the small but critical element: "February 19, 1942" ...the date of Executive Order 9066, which gave the U.S. Army the authority to remove civilians from the military zones established in Washington, Oregon, and California during WWII.



    Borrowing from https://jacl.org/events/day-of-remembrance/

    ... This Executive Order led to the forced removal and incarceration of some 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry living on the West Coast, who had to abandon their jobs, their homes, and their lives to be sent to one of ten concentration camps scattered in desolate, remote regions of the country.

    No Japanese Americans were ever charged, much less convicted, of espionage or sabotage against the United States. Yet they were targeted, rounded up, and imprisoned for years, simply for having the "face of the enemy."

    Every February, the Japanese American community commemorates Executive Order 9066 as a reminder of the impact the incarceration experience has had on our families, our community, and our country. It is an opportunity to educate others on the fragility of civil liberties in times of crisis, and the importance of remaining vigilant in protecting the rights and freedoms of all.
    This has some personal significance to me: One of my good friends from college days spent some twenty-plus years of her life working with the effort to obtain some compensation and restitution for the losses of her mother and father, and the whole Japanese-American community by extension, which were only finalized a little over a decade ago, half a century later.

    Whenever I ride through Japan Town and see the memorial standing there in its mute testimony, I think of her and of what it stands for.

    Onwards...
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    I really love square photos, and square photos made with the field of view of an ultra wide lens just hit the numbers for me. That's not to say that it is easy ... It always takes a bit of time for my to calibrate my mind to seeing with such a wide field of view.

    I carried the camera on yesterday's cycle ride to lunch at Roy's Station Cafe in Japan Town and became inspired when I got there to play with some hand-held still life photos...













    All taken with Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6.

    Enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    More photos using the "mini digital Hasselblad SWC" aka the Leica CL plus Voigtländer 10mm lens... These were taken while I was riding on two different bicycle rides last week. Focusing on trees along the paths.*











    All: Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6, f/8 aperture setting

    What's truly great about this setup is how small and light it is. It fits with tons of room to spare in the Wotancraft Mini Rider and is extremely handy for carrying with me on my bicycle rides. The camera and lens together with the half case weighs 1 lb, 4 ounces.*

    Another thing I'm pretty delighted with is that all of the photos I've shown so far were*made hand-held, and they're very sharp with lovely texture and tonal scale. I know that once I go out for a session and use a tripod too they'll be even better quality!

    enjoy!*
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Godfrey,

    Mind if I join in? Leica TL2+11-23 at 11mm. Not quite as wide as the Voigtlander, but here's a square crop:

    Sorry for all the Park Avenue photos. I just walk by that block a lot and it's a good place to test wide angle lenses. I live on the unfashionable West Side.



    Oh, the cabs are orange, but I boosted them to white and darkened the blue. Just having fun,

    Matt
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Godfrey,

    Mind if I join in? Leica TL2+11-23 at 11mm. Not quite as wide as the Voigtlander, but here's a square crop:

    Sorry for all the Park Avenue photos. I just walk by that block a lot and it's a good place to test wide angle lenses. I live on the unfashionable West Side.

    https://flic.kr/p/2gmE8Yw

    Oh, the cabs are orange, but I boosted them to white and darkened the blue. Just having fun,

    Matt
    Not at all. Nice work with it!

    The Leica TL 11-23 was another lens I was interested in ... I visited the Leica Store in SF with the notion of trying one, but (as usual) they were all sold out. I'm glad I tried the Voigtländer first.

    This is one of the four exposures I made on today's cycle ride...


    Always Another Cafe Stop on the Ride
    Caffe Frascati, San Jose 2019
    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 400 @ f/8 @ 1/60

    enjoy!

    G
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Not as wide as either of yours, but a Fuji X Pro2 with a 14mm is my SWC fix...



    Those white spots in the sky are stars.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Continuing with my trees ...




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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Here's a fun question - and I can't think of a better forum for it:

    What does an image from a 0mm lens look like? OK, that's undefined. How about the limit as FL->0 of a picture taken with a focal length FL lens?

    --Matt

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Here's a fun question - and I can't think of a better forum for it:

    What does an image from a 0mm lens look like? OK, that's undefined. How about the limit as FL->0 of a picture taken with a focal length FL lens?

    --Matt
    Look like in what respect?

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    The answer is a collection of lines radiating from the center of the frame. Each line is the color determined by rays in the plane parallel to the front of the lens. Details to follow.

    A close rendition is: take the pixels on the perimeter of a shot. Now extend each pixel in a straight line of the same color to the center of the frame.

    Actually, take the edge circle of a 180 degree fish-eye photo and extend the lines radially from that circle.

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 30th June 2019 at 15:25.

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Here's a fun question - and I can't think of a better forum for it:

    What does an image from a 0mm lens look like? OK, that's undefined. How about the limit as FL->0 of a picture taken with a focal length FL lens?

    --Matt
    This is assuming not a fisheye design that uses equal angle, but the rectilinear design we all love. The image would be extremely odd as it it extends to the edge with the center of the image containing "normal" perspective getting increasingly smaller. This would not actually be a lens distortion, but a problem with viewing distance--projection geometry could solve this. We are all familiar with the wide-angle effect where three-dimensional objects seem stretched along the radial axis, the shorter the focal length, the greater this perception of stretching would become as the ratio between the actual and "correct* viewing distances increase. The "correct" viewing distance being relative to the focal length and format. Given a focal length approaching zero, I would expect the stretching to to be so extreme that the center of the image that would look relatively normal will become very, very small with the stretching toward the edge of the frame being so extreme that it would seem like radial lines.

    Also given the rectilinear projection, the angle of view would approach 180 degrees as the focal length approaches zero, but will never reach zero as a zero focal length is not possible.

    Also, vignetting cause by the angle of incidence would be extreme. The edge would be dark if not black because exposure would be insufficient. The center filter for that beast would be amazing.

    Another trival question. Was is the fastest (f-number) simple lens you can design and what would it look like?
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    This is assuming not a fisheye design that uses equal angle, but the rectilinear design we all love. The image would be extremely odd as it it extends to the edge with the center of the image containing "normal" perspective getting increasingly smaller. This would not actually be a lens distortion, but a problem with viewing distance--projection geometry could solve this. We are all familiar with the wide-angle effect where three-dimensional objects seem stretched along the radial axis, the shorter the focal length, the greater this perception of stretching would become as the ratio between the actual and "correct* viewing distances increase. The "correct" viewing distance being relative to the focal length and format. Given a focal length approaching zero, I would expect the stretching to to be so extreme that the center of the image that would look relatively normal will become very, very small with the stretching toward the edge of the frame being so extreme that it would seem like radial lines.

    Also given the rectilinear projection, the angle of view would approach 180 degrees as the focal length approaches zero, but will never reach zero as a zero focal length is not possible.

    Also, vignetting cause by the angle of incidence would be extreme. The edge would be dark if not black because exposure would be insufficient. The center filter for that beast would be amazing.

    Another trival question. Was is the fastest (f-number) simple lens you can design and what would it look like?
    Fastest lens? I guess that would depend on the index of refraction. A diamond lens? No idea....

    Trying the Voigtlander 10 on the TL2, and some offensive over-processing:



    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 30th June 2019 at 17:48.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Fastest lens? I guess that would depend on the index of refraction. A diamond lens? No idea....
    f/0.5. It would simply be a hemisphere placed on the image plane. For example, think of a 100mm sphere cut in half, making a 50mm, f/0.5 lens for a 35mm format. Totally theoretical (probably thought up by a mathematician ). But it was a question in my optics classes at college.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    f/0.5. It would simply be a hemisphere placed on the image plane. For example, think of a 100mm sphere cut in half, making a 50mm, f/0.5 lens for a 35mm format. Totally theoretical (probably thought up by a mathematician ). But it was a question in my optics classes at college.
    Thanks. Gotta think about that....

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Thanks. Gotta think about that....
    Looking at your photograph with very simple linear features made think about your finite focal length problem. Would a 2-D subject not be distorted, only 3-D? The wide-angle effect does not make flat planes appear distorted, only objects with depth.

    Consider:


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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Ahh ... back to some photographs, I guess.

    My bicycle ride today brought me right up past this little thing:


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/160

    It's a monstrosity, but eh? It's only obnoxious when they close the trail during events.

    enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Yeah. Sorry. I've taken the theoretical discussion off-line.

    The 10mm Voigtlander is impressive. It may not sound much wider than the 11-23, but 10% is quite a noticeable difference. And it's smaller. And doesn't require focusing - f/8 and be there.

    More pictures soon...

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Yeah. Sorry. I've taken the theoretical discussion off-line.

    The 10mm Voigtlander is impressive. It may not sound much wider than the 11-23, but 10% is quite a noticeable difference. And it's smaller. And doesn't require focusing - f/8 and be there.

    More pictures soon...

    Matt
    Interesting subject matter. As a theoretical physicist (optical researcher as well), I studied boundary problems such as these and solved thousands of these problems mathematically. Unfortunately, I never considered the real-world results such as those you brought up. The thing is, most boundary problems, those that have limits approaching zero, infinity, speed of light, etc., don't actually have real world answers, just mostly theory. However, the mental fodder is fantastic and stirs the rust in my aging grey matter.

    Thanks,

    Joel
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelM View Post
    Interesting subject matter. As a theoretical physicist (optical researcher as well), I studied boundary problems such as these and solved thousands of these problems mathematically. Unfortunately, I never considered the real-world results such as those you brought up. The thing is, most boundary problems, those that have limits approaching zero, infinity, speed of light, etc., don't actually have real world answers, just mostly theory. However, the mental fodder is fantastic and stirs the rust in my aging grey matter.

    Thanks,

    Joel
    These ARE fun problems. I thought about standing on the Ringworld for a long time. (Assume the limit as the ring gets infinitely large, but with constant proportions). Finally just had Mathematica do the projective geometry for me.

    Oh, and must include a mini-SWC pic:

    Watching Sunset



    Matt (yes, there’s a lamppost coming out of his head. I’m still not used to seeing at this UWA)
    Last edited by MGrayson; 1st July 2019 at 17:16.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    From one of my downtown cafe stops last week...


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15

    enjoy!
    G
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Another fabulous structure is the parking garage at San Jose International Airport. The Guadalupe River Trail runs right next to it: I stopped to take this shot on Sunday while out on my bicycle ride.


    Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 200 @ f/8 @ 1/200

    Enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Balloons over TriBeCa

    Leica TL2+Voigtländer 10mm


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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Balloons over TriBeCa

    Leica TL2+Voigtländer 10mm
    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e2fe09a2_c.jpg

    Matt
    Interesting.

    The concept is good, however... I'd have rather seen some detailing in the primary subject matter as it's not quite black enough or simple enough in shapes to give the 'silhouette' effect a clean shot. Of course the sky exposure makes this difficult. Also, there is a good bit of edge-highlighting which I suspect comes from over-sharpening.

    It's fun to play with this wide a field of view in squares, eh?

    The handy size/light weight of the V10 lens and a TL or CL body, along with the resulting 16Mpixel resolution, makes it an easy, playful kit to experiment with that can actually produce some lovely prints! I just made a pair of nice sized prints (9.5 inch square with .75 inch borders (long bottom), on 11x14 inch paper) that just kick it for me. At this size, I constrain the output to 360ppi on the Epson P600 .. nets better results than letting the printer's driver interpolate down from ~435ppi.

    Fun fun fun!

    The more I play with this setup, the happier I get. I wonder whether the additional mojo of the recently announced Hasselblad CFV50c II + 907x body, coupled with the XCD 21mm f/4 lens, would net enough of a gain for my intent to be worth spending the money for it. (Of course, the back by itself would also allow me to use the rest of my Hasselblad V system kit for a full digital capture workflow... )

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    A good friend from my work days had lunch with me yesterday. He's another photo head ... I had the CL+V10 with me and he snapped this shot of me.


    "... and never mind my big hands, and nose."

    Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15

    This photo points out that when shooting people with an ultra-ultra-wide lens, you really have to be careful about the planes of elements and the subject to camera distance or foreshortening will bite you...!

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Interesting.

    The concept is good, however... I'd have rather seen some detailing in the primary subject matter as it's not quite black enough or simple enough in shapes to give the 'silhouette' effect a clean shot. Of course the sky exposure makes this difficult. Also, there is a good bit of edge-highlighting which I suspect comes from over-sharpening.

    It's fun to play with this wide a field of view in squares, eh?

    The handy size/light weight of the V10 lens and a TL or CL body, along with the resulting 16Mpixel resolution, makes it an easy, playful kit to experiment with that can actually produce some lovely prints! I just made a pair of nice sized prints (9.5 inch square with .75 inch borders (long bottom), on 11x14 inch paper) that just kick it for me. At this size, I constrain the output to 360ppi on the Epson P600 .. nets better results than letting the printer's driver interpolate down from ~435ppi.

    Fun fun fun!

    The more I play with this setup, the happier I get. I wonder whether the additional mojo of the recently announced Hasselblad CFV50c II + 907x body, coupled with the XCD 21mm f/4 lens, would net enough of a gain for my intent to be worth spending the money for it. (Of course, the back by itself would also allow me to use the rest of my Hasselblad V system kit for a full digital capture workflow... )

    G
    The halos are from darkening the blue response. I generally don't sharpen at all except a bit for printing.

    The color version may be better...

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2gqc8HC]

    Or more silhouette ...



    I have other versions where the foreground objects are more visible, but they seem very busy, and the balloons too insignificant. One where the Freedom Tower looks like a needle about to pop one of the balloons is cute, but not close enough to be convincing.

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    The halos are from darkening the blue response. I generally don't sharpen at all except a bit for printing.

    The color version may be better...

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6b7fb598_c.jpg

    Or more silhouette ...

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...afb503a9_c.jpg

    I have other versions where the foreground objects are more visible, but they seem very busy, and the balloons too insignificant. One where the Freedom Tower looks like a needle about to pop one of the balloons is cute, but not close enough to be convincing.

    Matt
    Hadn't seen that particular halo effect on the blue channel change before, that's interesting.

    Hmm. Well, as I said, it's an interesting concept but in this exposure it's not working out for me. I want to see that the things at the top are balloons clearly, as contrast to the very industrial looking mechanism/lights below it. It's that contrast that would make the photo work for me. The color improves it a little bit in that it softens the rest of the photo by some, the more silhouette look loses the sense of what I'm looking at.

    I think what the photo shows is the basic problem of a dark primary subject against a bright background ... It's often a serious struggle with ultra wide shooting in sunlight.

    G

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Yes, from yet another cycle ride...


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 640 @ f/8 @ 1/15

    enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Another cafe stop... I was sitting outside. These two young men arrived and took the table next to me. Their behaviors were so disparate in the ten-twenty minutes I was sitting there having lunch and watching them it was almost enough to make me laugh.


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 400 @ f/8 @ 1/50

    A few others of their friends arrived a few moments before I departed, and I noted that their behaviors normalized. I nodded to them, just kind of saying goodbye, as I left. The one on the left barely noticed, the one on the right gave me a smile and a little hand gesture to say, 'thanks, see ya.'

    Ah, communications in the modern age...

    onwards,
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Out for my ride on Tuesday, doing a slightly different take on my loop at a different point in the day than usual, I came through the edge of the University, rounded the bend, and my eyes were blinded by the glowing red umbrellas at the local pizza parlor. I had to stop and photograph it, and then I had to figure out how to make the photo look like what blasted my retinas ...


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/80

    enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    From yesterday's visit to Apple Park Visitor Center in Cupertino:




    Both: Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6, full frame

    I didn't crop these square because they felt right in these long, oblong shapes.

    enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Ok, this doesn't, strictly speaking, belong here. But ....

    Leica SL, Voigtländer 10mm RWA*. Passing thunderstorm:



    And a panorama from TWO 10mm frames (yes, that's silly).



    Matt

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    I like the RWA moniker.

    Very cool, but yes: Let's try to return to ultra wide squares for this thread.

    I've switched over to shooting a little film this week ... the CL has been doing a terrific job as my copy camera for Polaroid shots ... They're square but not ultra wide even with my accessory wide angle lens. I have a few more photos from what I've shot with the CL+10mm to post, perhaps I'll get to them tomorrow or Friday.

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square


    Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
    ISO 3200 @ f/8 @ 1/30

    Enjoy!
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Here's two WA shots close to the SWC "AOV" that were always intended to be converted to B&W, but I confess the square crop was an afterthought that worked out very well for me. Somehow the photo's that Dan Lindberg, Godfrey and others have posted in this style got me in a mindset for these type of shots, so thanks for the inspiration (and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery )


    1: Fort Duffel



    2: Convent of Bethlehem (also in Duffel)


    Both A7 + MC Rokkor 17/4, cropped square, using the full 24 mm "short side" of the sensor

    Actually if you use this technique on a rectangular FF 24x36 mm sensor your lens suddenly can shift 6 mm left/right or up/down. Actually this was used in the second shot, so less SW perspective correction is needed.

    However none of my regular cameras can switch the LCD/VF to a square crop so it still feels weird to try and find square compositions with it.

    I still have an old Olympus EP3 which can do a square crop on the LCD/VF but then you would need a 7-8 mm lens to get in the SWC territory. I found this Laowa 7,5 mm lens for MFT on B+H does anyone have experience with it? Advantage would be that it gives me an almost dedicated camera for this type of shooting (my EP3 is hardly used) however it will only be a 9 MP square crop on a small (and outdated) sensor. Decisions, decisions.......
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Very nice photos!

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    ...
    However none of my regular cameras can switch the LCD/VF to a square crop so it still feels weird to try and find square compositions with it.

    I still have an old Olympus EP3 which can do a square crop on the LCD/VF but then you would need a 7-8 mm lens to get in the SWC territory. I found this Laowa 7,5 mm lens for MFT on B+H does anyone have experience with it? Advantage would be that it gives me an almost dedicated camera for this type of shooting (my EP3 is hardly used) however it will only be a 9 MP square crop on a small (and outdated) sensor. Decisions, decisions.......
    No experience with that lens ... But i have done a lot of square format on FourThirds format. 9Mpixel is enough for a decent sized print, and more than enough for a good web resolution photo, so don't let that stop you!

    With the CL, I turn on the grid overlay with reference lines at 1/3 intervals in H and V when doing square shots. It helps me get my camera level and keep verticals vertical, and I find it also helps me estimate the square a little better. A square crop or frame lines would be ideal, but once you get used to seeing square, it's not hard to frame accurately.

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    With the CL, I turn on the grid overlay with reference lines at 1/3 intervals in H and V when doing square shots. It helps me get my camera level and keep verticals vertical, and I find it also helps me estimate the square a little better. A square crop or frame lines would be ideal, but once you get used to seeing square, it's not hard to frame accurately.
    Thanks Godfrey, I looked into this a little further and found that with my "normal" FF cameras I can choose several grids. I usually have the 1/3 interval lines on (like you suggest) but another option I found in the menu is a tighter grid which devides the 3:2 aspect image in 4 x 6 small squares. So this means that the middle 4 x 4 squares can be used as "gridlines" for a square crop.

    So no need to get a new lens for the EP-3 , I'll use my 17 mm prime on FF which is marginally tighter than the 38 mm on 56 x 56 mm (to be exact it needs to be 16.3 mm, so close enough I think).
    Last edited by pegelli; 10th August 2019 at 07:04.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    So today we went to Westkapelle (a small seaside village in Zeeland, the Netherlands) and made a long walk on the beach. It was not cold, but quite windy and mainly overcast.

    The first part of the walk I concentrated on Square WA compositions with my "poor man's digital SWC" (a Sony A7 with a Rokkor MC 17/4). It's > 50 years ago since I used a true square frame camera (a Lubitel 6x6 in a high school photo project, the camera wasn't even mine) so it took some effort to start "seeing" that way, but here's a few of the results

    1: Beginning of the beach



    2: Strong currents (with my two loyal companions in the background)



    3: WW2 remembrance Monument

    Actually when I was taking some pictures of the monument this lady just walked in the frame, so I quickly took a step back and thought "if you walk in my frame you'll be in it, whether you like it or not"


    4: Lines and radar tower

    I thought this one worked better in B&W

    TFL and comments welcome
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Lovely photos, pegelli! A great start back into square land!

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Lovely photos, pegelli! A great start back into square land!

    G
    Thanks Godfrey, I only feel a bit shy to post images with a Sony camera and a Minolta lens in the Leica forum. I'm wondering if we shouldn't ask the moderators to move this thread to the "Artful Images" section to ensure it's brand agnostic (and only format/FOV specific). But since you're the OP I think that's really your call....

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Thanks Godfrey, I only feel a bit shy to post images with a Sony camera and a Minolta lens in the Leica forum....
    Why? Minolta made some of Leicas best cameras and lenses. Since Minolta engineers moved to Sony when they bought Konica Minolta's camera division, the tradition carries on...
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    The photos are what I care about. I love seeing what others do with this notion of the ultra wide square so typified by the SWC. Post away!



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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Last week I read an article about the Olympus Body Cap / Fisheye 9 mm f8, a very cheap lens (less than 100 € here in the area) that when defished is somewhere equivalent to a 7 mm rectalinear on M4/3. Defishing works very well with the Sigma fisheye 10/2.8 set at 110% distortion. Then cropping square so the fuzzy corners are cut off and you've got a real poor man's digital SWC, or even a bit wider.

    So rather than the > 600 € Laowa I decided to get this "el cheapo" lens for my EP-3 and try it out. If it doesn't work out it's an expensive body cap, but if it does give reasonable results it comes in an extremely light and portable package that I might take along more often.

    Here's the first results, while cycling through Eindhoven from the shop to the parking garage where I dropped off the car.
    You all be the judge if it's passing muster.

    1: The river Dommel, in the background the city brewery



    2: "Party Factory, 151 shots"

    Btw, I don't think it's the type of shots we talk about on this forum


    3: Canopy



    4: Scary mural


    I used a bit heavy handed B&W conversion, which fitted the scenes I thought.
    Last edited by pegelli; 15th August 2019 at 12:31.
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Last week I read an article about the Olympus Body Cap / Fisheye 9 mm f8, a very cheap lens (less than 100 € here in the area) that when defished is somewhere equivalent to a 7 mm rectalinear on M4/3. Defishing works very well with the Sigma fisheye 10/2.8 set at 110% distortion. Then cropping square so the fuzzy corners are cut off and you've got a real poor man's digital SWC, or even a bit wider.

    So rather than the > 600 € Laowa I decided to get this "el cheapo" lens for my EP-3 and try it out. If it doesn't work out it's an expensive body cap, but if it does give reasonable results it comes in an extremely light and portable package that I might take along more often.

    Here's the first results, while cycling through Eindhoven from the shop to the parking garage where I dropped off the car.
    You all be the judge if it's passing muster.

    1: The river Dommel, in the background the city brewery



    2: "Party Factory, 151 shots"

    Btw, I don't think it's the type of shots we talk about on this forum


    3: Canopy



    4: Scary mural


    I used a bit heavy handed B&W conversion, which fitted the scenes I thought.
    The two body-cap lenses from Olympus are delightful ... small, good rendering, and a pleasure to work with. I have both of them and have used them quite a lot, particularly when I had the E-PL7 body. Your photos look very good, what were you using to defish the 9mm?

    Comparing imaging quality with the SWC using these small JPEGs isn't really a very useful comparison and the shooting options available given the small 13x13 mm sensor area are limited in much the same way as the Voigtländer 10mm shooting options on APS-C are ... But what the heck? Make great photos and fugettabout it. And save a bunch of money in the process! Can't complain about that!

    I love the wide square meme, how you get there is really just an implementation detail!

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The two body-cap lenses from Olympus are delightful ... small, good rendering, and a pleasure to work with. I have both of them and have used them quite a lot, particularly when I had the E-PL7 body. Your photos look very good, what were you using to defish the 9mm?

    Comparing imaging quality with the SWC using these small JPEGs isn't really a very useful comparison and the shooting options available given the small 13x13 mm sensor area are limited in much the same way as the Voigtländer 10mm shooting options on APS-C are ... But what the heck? Make great photos and fugettabout it. And save a bunch of money in the process! Can't complain about that!

    I love the wide square meme, how you get there is really just an implementation detail!

    G
    Thanks Godfrey, I have no doubt the technical quality of these images are way below what could be achieved with quality Hasselblad equipment (either digital or film) but that's indeed not the point, these are just for my own pleasure and sharing here so I agree "what the heck". Next Time I'll get the other body cap lens as well and see how I like that on my EP-3

    To defish I use the method I read in a Dutch article on the lens, i.e. Lightroom and use the profile for the Sigma 10/2.8 fisheye and set the distortion slider of that profile at 110%. As far as I can see it looks pretty right, at least so right that I'm not planning the trouble to create my own custom profile. I also tried the PTlens defishing option and doesn't look too bad either.

    Here's the non defished version of the last shot. Maybe this emulates the Distagon 30/3.5 fish-eye, albeit at a lower quality again

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    How about some perspective correction (much easier with digital versus the old darkroom days)



    Or one that doesn't need it


    both EP-3 + defished Olympus "bodycap" fisheye 9/8
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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    I put my Pany 7-14 on the Pen-f, set it to 9mm and went for a walk by the river Wear this morning. Very liberating tbh, just set hyperfocal for most shots and go....
    (oh and the Pen has square framelines!).












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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanS View Post
    I put my Pany 7-14 on the Pen-f, set it to 9mm and went for a walk by the river Wear this morning. Very liberating tbh, just set hyperfocal for most shots and go....
    (oh and the Pen has square framelines!).

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...076f85d6_o.jpg
    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...62665831_o.jpg
    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...604bc44e_o.jpg
    Indeed! Very liberating and fun! Nice work!

    I have a few still in-camera that I made this week. An amusing thing is that when I've spent a good long couple of days shooting with the HyperWide 10mm lens, a Summilux 35mm normal lens on the Leica CL seems a telephoto!

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Thank's Godfrey, I have a few more to process yet so will post as I get through them.
    It's funny how you normalise for a lens (in this case swa) and adjust your viewpoint to suit. Had to keep getting closer and closer at first!

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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    3 more...










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    Re: a "mini-digital SWC" ... Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm, cropped square

    Some monochrome...








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