Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

[dave.gt]

A few questions linger in my mind regarding the M10.

In regard to the overwhelming choices photographers have these days, I for one, can only state that the M cameras are still the most desirable cameras of all when I want a small form. No other camera will sate that desire based on so many reasons as stated above in brevity. Coming from MFD, I see the M10 and the S as complementing each other.

The basis of my inquiry about the M10 is discovering how it can be used to produce income. In other words, professionally (meaning generating an income) how best to identify and pursue appropriate markets, and which markets will allow the M10 to shine.

Certainly discounting those areas where other systems excel, such as sports, racing, etc.... where would one actively seek paid work for hire, for using the M10?

Perhaps the market is the same as the MFD market in a different, supporting role.

Or, perhaps the M10 has yet to be discovered for professional use. As an example, is there a limitation in using the M10 for stitched panoramas? Or for use in architectural applications?

So, practically, how can one turn the cash flow around with a Leica M10, or any camera? Is it fate? Or something else? Or is Photography becoming irrelevant? I hope not. It is important to capture meaningful moments in life.

It is however, becoming more apparent to me that there is more to Photography than meets the eye. Yes, pun intended. After all, what camera can capture the image in my mind of the beautiful lady who celebrated with me, our 48th Wedding Anniversary last week the day before her heart surgery?

Or the contre-jour image of our first-born child with his sweet angelic face sitting in a rocking chair with the crescendo of morning sunlight in the background.

Brand names, pixels and costs melt away. It is, after all, the image in the mind that endures.

 

[saintsteve]

A few questions linger in my mind regarding the M10.

In regard to the overwhelming choices photographers have these days, I for one, can only state that the M cameras are still the most desirable cameras of all when I want a small form. No other camera will sate that desire based on so many reasons as stated above in brevity. Coming from MFD, I see the M10 and the S as complementing each other.

The basis of my inquiry about the M10 is discovering how it can be used to produce income. In other words, professionally (meaning generating an income) how best to identify and pursue appropriate markets, and which markets will allow the M10 to shine.

Certainly discounting those areas where other systems excel, such as sports, racing, etc.... where would one actively seek paid work for hire, for using the M10?

Perhaps the market is the same as the MFD market in a different, supporting role.

Or, perhaps the M10 has yet to be discovered for professional use. As an example, is there a limitation in using the M10 for stitched panoramas? Or for use in architectural applications?

So, practically, how can one turn the cash flow around with a Leica M10, or any camera? Is it fate? Or something else? Or is Photography becoming irrelevant? I hope not. It is important to capture meaningful moments in life.

It is however, becoming more apparent to me that there is more to Photography than meets the eye. Yes, pun intended. After all, what camera can capture the image in my mind of the beautiful lady who celebrated with me, our 48th Wedding Anniversary last week the day before her heart surgery?

Or the contre-jour image of our first-born child with his sweet angelic face sitting in a rocking chair with the crescendo of morning sunlight in the background.

Brand names, pixels and costs melt away. It is, after all, the image in the mind that endures.

Cameras do not produce income, photographers do! Much like a hammer and saw do not produce income, carpenters do. The photographer is the professional not the camera and part of the process is choosing the right tool for the job. As a photographer for the last 43 years I have used every format available on the job and consider them all professional by virtue of the fact that they were used by a professional to complete an assignment. Before each assignment I analyze the needs and select the equipment accordingly. The M10 is no more or less professional than a GoPro if its the right camera for the job. Clients don't hire cameras they hire photographers.

 

[dave.gt]

Cameras do not produce income, photographers do! Much like a hammer and saw do not produce income, carpenters do. The photographer is the professional not the camera and part of the process is choosing the right tool for the job. As a photographer for the last 43 years I have used every format available on the job and consider them all professional by virtue of the fact that they were used by a professional to complete an assignment. Before each assignment I analyze the needs and select the equipment accordingly. The M10 is no more or less professional than a GoPro if its the right camera for the job. Clients don't hire cameras they hire photographers.

It appears you have misunderstood my questions. Apologies if I am not clear.

I have been a dedicated photographer as well for more than 40 years. I would not choose an M10 to do field sports or motor sports as I did for twenty years with Nikons... for obvious reasons. I would actually like to know what working professionals actually do with M cameras. Not many have ever responded. So it is a fair question.

I come from a Nikon, Leica, Hasselblad and now a Leica S background. I would not use the H5, or the S, or and Medium Format for many things. I recently sold a very good D850, because it was of no use for me.

So, yes, equipment does make a difference.

I simply ask the question about who is actually using M cameras professionally and what is their genre of shooting.

I hear mostly crickets. So I patiently await.

 

[richardman]

I simply ask the question about who is actually using M cameras professionally and what is their genre of shooting.

I hear mostly crickets. So I patiently await.

Some magnum photographers are still using their Ms.

Bloggers routine make money with Leica M by writing about them and the latest must-have lens :scry:

 

[airfrogusmc]

Meyerowitz, Jill Fredman, Costas Manos, Ralph Gibson are just a few of the greats that shoot with Leica digital Ms.

 

[Shashin]

Alex Webb uses a digital M.

 

[dave.gt]

Ummm... thanks for the names listed above...however, famous photographers and the "elite" at the top of their profession are not examples I had in mind.

In my world, those people are interesting for many reasons, but have no relevance to the reality each day brings my way.

How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment?

I see indications that may be the case. Or not.

 

[dave.gt]

Anyway, back to the original post...

As a long time user of film Leicas, RF and SLR, and a somewhat limited history of using digital Leica DSLRs, it seems to me that there are very few actually using the current Leica M models for paid work.

The amazing work airfrogusmc has graciously shared, and a few others, is appreciated. It appears that the Leica M models are more or less a hobbyist/travel/casual use rather than used for paid work. At least that is my impression.

It is also my impression that the Leica M10 could/should be more than that and has all it needs to be used in a professional endeavor. Identification of those markets is what I am researching. Perhaps a poll would shed some light on the subject.(???)

 

[dave.gt]

and some pro portrait work with Leica M

Btw, these portraits are excellent!

Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.:facesmack:

 

[GrahamWelland]

It’s a great camera with superb lenses. Just use it. The talent is you.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Btw, these portraits are excellent!

Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.:facesmack:

They look like 50/35 summilux images shot wide open - and well done. And maybe even 75 ‘lux at the end

 

[Godfrey]

...
How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment? ...

...
As a long time user of film Leicas, RF and SLR, and a somewhat limited history of using digital Leica DSLRs, it seems to me that there are very few actually using the current Leica M models for paid work.

The amazing work airfrogusmc has graciously shared, and a few others, is appreciated. It appears that the Leica M models are more or less a hobbyist/travel/casual use rather than used for paid work. At least that is my impression.

It is also my impression that the Leica M10 could/should be more than that and has all it needs to be used in a professional endeavor. Identification of those markets is what I am researching. Perhaps a poll would shed some light on the subject.(???)

Most photographers in the class that you're interrogating for do their paid-for work with equipment that belongs to their employer. For instance, my friend Steve used to use his own Olympus E-5 but now uses the Sony A7II that the employer bought and required him to use. My friend Linda similarly used to use her Rolleiflex, Mamiya RB67, and Leica M3, but now uses her employers' Nikon D700 and D300 for her paid work.

When I was running my photo business and doing paid-for work, I used my own equipment since I was always a by-contract photographer rather than a staff photographer. I used Pentax, Nikon, Hasselblad, Panasonic, Leica, and Olympus equipment during those years. I closed that business before the M10 existed, but if I were still operating it and had decided to buy an M10, you can bet that I'd be using it too.

Nowadays, if I take any job to do for others, I am most likely to use my Leica CL because it is my most versatile camera and I can count on it to deliver what I need, no question. This may change again when the Hasselblad 907x arrives.

G

 

[airfrogusmc]

Btw, these portraits are excellent!

Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.:facesmack:

Thanks Dave,

Formal portraits w/backdrop are with the 90 APO at usually at 2.8 or f/4 First one of the environmental portraits was with the 35 Summilux FLE (first one) and 90 APO the next two(at f/2) and 75 Summarit on the last environmental portrait. .

Hope that you or whoever was in the hospital are feeling better.

 

[richardman]

AH I see, we were answering the wrong questions. Now I must ask you what is the purpose of your questions? The number of average joes who makes money (let's say $30,000 a year) is miniscule, for sure. Probably far less than the number of Instagram influencers who get more money from Instagram using their smartphones.

So if you are asking: hmmm, I want to have some extra income, will getting a M10 get me that extra edge, the answer would no doubt be... "how good is your business game", followed by "how good is your photography regardless of gear".

 

[dave.gt]

The old saying is.... Well, there is no old saying in this case. No worries, I have my answers.

Thank you all for your input.:thumbup:

I am done here.

 

[Shashin]

Ummm... thanks for the names listed above...however, famous photographers and the "elite" at the top of their profession are not examples I had in mind.

In my world, those people are interesting for many reasons, but have no relevance to the reality each day brings my way.

How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment?

I see indications that may be the case. Or not.

Have you seen Leica prices?

For average working photographers, a Leica M system is simply not cost effective or flexible enough (average annual income for a photographer is around $30K). For enthusiasts/amateurs, it becomes harder to answer. I have found getting a camera I really want can be more cost effective because I use it for a very long time. I have made a few mistakes where I did not gel with something, but it worked more often than not.

Still, Leica is a stretch for most. When you price out a three-lens kit, it is a major investment. Given the posts on GetDPI about their reliability, justifying an M becomes hard.

I am most happy when I am shooting and producing work. Yes, I care about the equipment, but that goes so far--I have never met a perfect camera anyway. I spend quite a bit of time with my cameras just learning how to produce good results. It is only after that break in period that I am really comfortable with a camera. It becomes second nature, and extension of my vision, to use a cliche. It is also that most satisfying time to work. I guess the value of photography for me is the experience it brings. I like well designed and crafted gear, but that feeling wears off quickly leaving me with just the act of shooting.

I also hate shopping for gear...

 

[airfrogusmc]

I can tell you this; even with the M-E and MM being recalled for a new sensor I have had less problem with my 2 M10s, M-E, MM and M 262 than I did with my Canon gear. I had a complete shutter failure when I was shooting for NATO when they were here in Chicago in 2012. I had a lot of issues with my Canons but the good thing is CPS is really good. I did get a 1Ds Mk III dead on arrival one time from CPS.
Pros making 30K a year? Wow. Not around here unless they live with mom and dad. Our medical insurance for my wife and I is over 15K a year. I couldn't live on 30K a year. In fact I pay more in taxes than that a year.

 

[richardman]

...
Pros making 30K a year? Wow. Not around here unless they live with mom and dad. Our medical insurance for my wife and I is over 15K a year. I couldn't live on 30K a year. In fact I pay more in taxes than that a year.

Sadly, that is probably the realities for most pros. Yes, we know commercial shooters who make $100K-$200K a year, or even higher if you are named.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Sadly, that is probably the realities for most pros. Yes, we know commercial shooters who make $100K-$200K a year, or even higher if you are named.

I have a few friends that are full time pros and all of them make quite a bit over that. In this area like New York, LA San Fran or other larger cities rent alone would be over half that a year. A mortgage and property taxers would certainly be way more than half of 30K. If those making so little would quit giving their work away then they all might see a better income.

 

[Shashin]

I have a few friends that are full time pros and all of them make quite a bit over that. In this area like New York, LA San Fran or other larger cities rent alone would be over half that a year. A mortgage and property taxers would certainly be way more than half of 30K. If those making so little would quit giving their work away then they all might see a better income.

Photography is a very broad field. A huge part of that is outside major centers with work like event/wedding gigs.