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Thread: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

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    Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Yes, it is "only" 24mp but it seems to me that there are niche uses for the M10, where one can actually use it for professional paying projects. If one does not need huge files for large prints, it seems that the M10 would be a good choice.

    It would be helpful to have an answer to:
    Is anyone here using the M10 professionally?
    Dave (GT)

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    It's possible to use almost any camera professionally.

    The true measure is the availability of easily accessible quick-turnaround servicing and rental outlets.

    IMO

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    In mainland Europe there are lots of people using Leica rangefinder models and the "only 24 meg" is not a drawback for most. Larger sensors are wasted in many cases because European walls being smaller on average there is not the market for big prints like there is in 'The New World'. Leica is a popular book-illustrators/magazine camera and also for

    The thing about Leicas is that it's a European design which chimes with a very different culture to much of the content on this and similar sites. As such it's about the last vestige of camera design which we (as Europeans, although I'm actually English!...a VERY different thing!)recognise as 'for us to use' rather than the wave of far-eastern stuff which is so often not what we really want.... In a nutshell; the Japanese like to get as many fleas onto the dog as they can and Leica folk like things as simple and discrete as possible.

    Also, Leicas were never exactly 'durable workhorse' as I remember,....the rangefinders were always a touch delicate to the odd knock and getting them corrected was difficult and expensive. Plus; there is not the back-up kit which modern pro photographers seem to rely on...no tilt/shift, no real zooms,etc

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    In mainland Europe there are lots of people using Leica rangefinder models and the "only 24 meg" is not a drawback for most. Larger sensors are wasted in many cases because European walls being smaller on average there is not the market for big prints like there is in 'The New World'. Leica is a popular book-illustrators/magazine camera and also for

    The thing about Leicas is that it's a European design which chimes with a very different culture to much of the content on this and similar sites. As such it's about the last vestige of camera design which we (as Europeans, although I'm actually English!...a VERY different thing!)recognise as 'for us to use' rather than the wave of far-eastern stuff which is so often not what we really want.... In a nutshell; the Japanese like to get as many fleas onto the dog as they can and Leica folk like things as simple and discrete as possible.

    Also, Leicas were never exactly 'durable workhorse' as I remember,....the rangefinders were always a touch delicate to the odd knock and getting them corrected was difficult and expensive. Plus; there is not the back-up kit which modern pro photographers seem to rely on...no tilt/shift, no real zooms,etc
    Ah, thanks, I can relate to the smaller wall space myself.

    And therein lies the basis for my question..,

    I have no doubt that there are some who actually have found a way to use M cameras in their business, making a living, not simply as a tool for art, pleasure, etc.

    The days of enjoying my M3 and M6 are long passed. The M10 has what it takes to be used for a lot of work, I am just curious as to what kind of work.

    Portraits for clients? Studio/environmental?
    Landscapes?
    Wall art?
    Books?

    My guess is that the Leica M will continue to increase in sensor size, but that is of no concern to me, just wondering if the M is actually being used in a profit-making capacity.

    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Ah, thanks, I can relate to the smaller wall space myself.

    And therein lies the basis for my question..,

    I have no doubt that there are some who actually have found a way to use M cameras in their business, making a living, not simply as a tool for art, pleasure, etc.

    The days of enjoying my M3 and M6 are long passed. The M10 has what it takes to be used for a lot of work, I am just curious as to what kind of work.

    Portraits for clients? Studio/environmental?
    Landscapes?
    Wall art?
    Books?

    My guess is that the Leica M will continue to increase in sensor size, but that is of no concern to me, just wondering if the M is actually being used in a profit-making capacity.

    For my pro work I mostly do advertising and some corporate events. That includes annual reports, brochures, billboards, magazines, etc. 24 MPs is more than enough for what I shoot. Here are a few things that were on a highly traveled stairway wall in one of my hospital client stairwells. The size is approx 36 X 54 and you can walk right up to it. These were taken with an 18 MP Monochrom.




    I had a one man exhibit here in Chicago a year ago June and the images were all 12 X 18 and almost all shot with the original 18mp M Mono the looked great. Also had an exhibit in Hamburg Germany this past May. Here is a review of the exhibit. Just use google translate if you don't speak or read German:
    https://www.kultur-port.de/index.php...us-friede.html

    and some local press:
    https://www.oakpark.com/News/Article...tured-moments/

    And some billboards and an L ad all shot with cameras (not Leica's sorry) under 24mps






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    Red face Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    For my pro work I mostly do advertising and some corporate events. That includes annual reports, brochures, billboards, magazines, etc. 24 MPs is more than enough for what I shoot. Here are a few things that were on a highly traveled stairway wall in one of my hospital client stairwells. The size is approx 36 X 54 and you can walk right up to it. These were taken with an 18 MP Monochrom.




    I had a one man exhibit here in Chicago a year ago June and the images were all 12 X 18 and almost all shot with the original 18mp M Mono the looked great. Also had an exhibit in Hamburg Germany this past May. Here is a review of the exhibit. Just use google translate if you don't speak or read German:
    https://www.kultur-port.de/index.php...us-friede.html

    and some local press:
    https://www.oakpark.com/News/Article...tured-moments/

    And some billboards and an L ad all shot with cameras (not Leica's sorry) under 24mps






    Hey! Thanks so much!

    That is exactly what I wanted to see and understand. There seems to be this pervasive idea that everyone using an M is a street photographer/journalist/world traveller, none of which appeals to me but I have always believed that once the 24mp threshold was reached, the M would shine and be used for many purposes and for paid work rather than simply websites, galleries and Instagram.

    It is and should be regarded as a professional instrument. With a proper OVF and choice of black or chrome. No black tape please!!!

    I really appreciate your sharing what you do!!!
    Last edited by dave.gt; 23rd July 2019 at 16:41.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    The M was and still remains a 100% professional camera IMO. This was the case back in film days and still remains the case in digital age today.

    For me it has reached a culmination point in the M10 and the only thing I do not like is that it does not offer at least some primitive video. I also think that 24MP is more than enough for decent even professional shooting in most situations.

    Having said that I am pretty sure that Leica will get to something like 36MP or even 47MP in their next M incarnation. M lenses surely can handle that but I have my doubt in the accuracy of even their best RF system of the M10 for such a high res sensor. And I am not sure if Leica will finally dare to put an electronic version of their RF system in just to increase accuracy and reliability.

    But these are my only concerns and I am looking forward to shoot my M lenses with a modern digital M body sooner than later again
    Life is an ever changing journey
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    and some pro portrait work with Leica M










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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    I've used almost every camera I've ever owned for some kinds of "professional" jobs, including my Leica Ms as well as my Minox B. I was just viewing the Apollo 11 movie (now available as an iTunes download) and there's a scene where the row of photojournalists with cameras includes one gentleman with an early Mamiya interchangeable lens TLR next to another gentleman who pretty obviously was using an M3 with a 35mm lens fitted ... you can see the goggles.

    The vast majority of photographs published in the world are sized for newspaper, books, and magazines. Very few of these photos are ever printed to greater than 1x2 feet in size. Most are printed via a multilayer screened web press which is far lower resolution than any fine art Epson photo printer. A 24 Mpixel image is able to be printed to a size of about 13x20 inch image area at 300 ppi without any interpolative resizing. So why is 24 Mpixel an issue for "professional" grade work?

    If the camera fits your shooting and output needs, use it.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    In mainland Europe there are lots of people using Leica rangefinder models and the "only 24 meg" is not a drawback for most...

    The thing about Leicas is that it's a European design which chimes with a very different culture to much of the content on this and similar sites. As such it's about the last vestige of camera design which we (as Europeans, although I'm actually English!...a VERY different thing!)...
    Ahem! Those of us in Norn Iron/Norneverland/Our Wee Country or even in the South are both Irish and European!
    SlŠinte

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    If one does not need huge files for large prints, it seems that the M10 would be a good choice.
    About the largest printer that is practical for most is 42". (There is a 60" large-format printer available, but that is really overkill.) I have printed files smaller than 24MP on a printer that size, basically 60" prints. I have also done 24mp images too. They were beautiful. One of the biggest myth in photography is that pixel resolution limits print size. It doesn't: wall space does.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    About the largest printer that is practical for most is 42". (There is a 60" large-format printer available, but that is really overkill.) I have printed files smaller than 24MP on a printer that size, basically 60" prints. I have also done 24mp images too. They were beautiful. One of the biggest myth in photography is that pixel resolution limits print size. It doesn't: wall space does.
    Ain't that the truth? Along with decor, wall color, and, ahem... the artistic taste of a Significant Other.

    That is why our tiny spare bedroom is now a Leica Cave.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Hey Dave!

    The M10 is a great camera, and IMHO can certainly be used professionally if the kind of photography you intend to do suits the rangefinder / external EVF way of framing / focussing, and if you don't need very long lenses or special lenses such as T/S.

    Perhaps you can find my humble thoughts about the M10 used for landscape of some interest: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2018...10-review.html

    Have a great day, best regards

    Vieri
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    Leicas were never exactly 'durable workhorse' as I remember,....the rangefinders were always a touch delicate to the odd knock and getting them corrected was difficult and expensive. Plus; there is not the back-up kit which modern pro photographers seem to rely on...no tilt/shift, no real zooms,etc
    Do you have personal experience with Leica Mís or are you merely repeating myth? Because what you say is simply not true. After owning and heavy use of 9 Mís I only had one go out of rangefinder alignment. Iíve dropped them on concrete and other surfaces with no effect. Plus rangefinder alignment can be done by any individual with a little time and patience, itís not rocket science.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    John,...either you were very lucky or I was very unlucky! I can't claim 9 specimens to judge from but only 2 M4's and an M3...none were mechanically impressive, were expensive to have anyone look at. The M3 I never bonded with and both M4's failed mechanically at least once while I was required to use them!

    ...All of the above is, of course, a very long time ago now when I was much younger with less wisdom, but my distinct impression is that the Leicas were nowhere nearly as nice to use as my wifes nikon d3300 which is a much more intuitive and 'natural' image making tool even if it lacks the style and stature. To be fair, the Leicas were 35mm cameras which is a medium that i always dsliked and never made a good image with despite 4 separate attempts to bond various systems....medium format was, and remains, my favoured 'size' and with which I made most of my best work.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Iím afraid that came out a little harsh. I should have stated ďin my caseĒ

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    John,...either you were very lucky or I was very unlucky! I can't claim 9 specimens to judge from but only 2 M4's and an M3...none were mechanically impressive, were expensive to have anyone look at. The M3 I never bonded with and both M4's failed mechanically at least once while I was required to use them!

    ...All of the above is, of course, a very long time ago now when I was much younger with less wisdom, but my distinct impression is that the Leicas were nowhere nearly as nice to use as my wifes nikon d3300 which is a much more intuitive and 'natural' image making tool even if it lacks the style and stature. To be fair, the Leicas were 35mm cameras which is a medium that i always dsliked and never made a good image with despite 4 separate attempts to bond various systems....medium format was, and remains, my favoured 'size' and with which I made most of my best work.
    So let's think about your experiences with M's. M4 and M3 were sold what years? How many years ago? The M10 (to pick the current model) is so much more refined than your M4 and M3 there is no comparison with todays models IMHO.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    All of the wartime photographers using Leica M cameras seemed to do just fine. In my 40+ years of Leica M use, I never had a lens or camera failure. Rugged little bloody tanks. I only made it to the M8 is my disclaimer.

    Joel

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    If "pro" means sports or macro, then probably not. Everything else? I am sure there is an iconic image of every category, INCLUDING sports and macros, that have been done with a Leica M.

    Speaking of which, my M9 has the sensor corrosion and I don't have the fund to fix it. Eff my life. Back to the M7 then.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    For macro you can always use one of these and it is about as good as macro gets.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    A few questions linger in my mind regarding the M10.

    In regard to the overwhelming choices photographers have these days, I for one, can only state that the M cameras are still the most desirable cameras of all when I want a small form. No other camera will sate that desire based on so many reasons as stated above in brevity. Coming from MFD, I see the M10 and the S as complementing each other.

    The basis of my inquiry about the M10 is discovering how it can be used to produce income. In other words, professionally (meaning generating an income) how best to identify and pursue appropriate markets, and which markets will allow the M10 to shine.

    Certainly discounting those areas where other systems excel, such as sports, racing, etc.... where would one actively seek paid work for hire, for using the M10?

    Perhaps the market is the same as the MFD market in a different, supporting role.

    Or, perhaps the M10 has yet to be discovered for professional use. As an example, is there a limitation in using the M10 for stitched panoramas? Or for use in architectural applications?

    So, practically, how can one turn the cash flow around with a Leica M10, or any camera? Is it fate? Or something else? Or is Photography becoming irrelevant? I hope not. It is important to capture meaningful moments in life.

    It is however, becoming more apparent to me that there is more to Photography than meets the eye. Yes, pun intended. After all, what camera can capture the image in my mind of the beautiful lady who celebrated with me, our 48th Wedding Anniversary last week the day before her heart surgery?

    Or the contre-jour image of our first-born child with his sweet angelic face sitting in a rocking chair with the crescendo of morning sunlight in the background.

    Brand names, pixels and costs melt away. It is, after all, the image in the mind that endures.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    A few questions linger in my mind regarding the M10.

    In regard to the overwhelming choices photographers have these days, I for one, can only state that the M cameras are still the most desirable cameras of all when I want a small form. No other camera will sate that desire based on so many reasons as stated above in brevity. Coming from MFD, I see the M10 and the S as complementing each other.

    The basis of my inquiry about the M10 is discovering how it can be used to produce income. In other words, professionally (meaning generating an income) how best to identify and pursue appropriate markets, and which markets will allow the M10 to shine.

    Certainly discounting those areas where other systems excel, such as sports, racing, etc.... where would one actively seek paid work for hire, for using the M10?

    Perhaps the market is the same as the MFD market in a different, supporting role.

    Or, perhaps the M10 has yet to be discovered for professional use. As an example, is there a limitation in using the M10 for stitched panoramas? Or for use in architectural applications?

    So, practically, how can one turn the cash flow around with a Leica M10, or any camera? Is it fate? Or something else? Or is Photography becoming irrelevant? I hope not. It is important to capture meaningful moments in life.

    It is however, becoming more apparent to me that there is more to Photography than meets the eye. Yes, pun intended. After all, what camera can capture the image in my mind of the beautiful lady who celebrated with me, our 48th Wedding Anniversary last week the day before her heart surgery?

    Or the contre-jour image of our first-born child with his sweet angelic face sitting in a rocking chair with the crescendo of morning sunlight in the background.

    Brand names, pixels and costs melt away. It is, after all, the image in the mind that endures.
    Cameras do not produce income, photographers do! Much like a hammer and saw do not produce income, carpenters do. The photographer is the professional not the camera and part of the process is choosing the right tool for the job. As a photographer for the last 43 years I have used every format available on the job and consider them all professional by virtue of the fact that they were used by a professional to complete an assignment. Before each assignment I analyze the needs and select the equipment accordingly. The M10 is no more or less professional than a GoPro if its the right camera for the job. Clients don't hire cameras they hire photographers.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by saintsteve View Post
    Cameras do not produce income, photographers do! Much like a hammer and saw do not produce income, carpenters do. The photographer is the professional not the camera and part of the process is choosing the right tool for the job. As a photographer for the last 43 years I have used every format available on the job and consider them all professional by virtue of the fact that they were used by a professional to complete an assignment. Before each assignment I analyze the needs and select the equipment accordingly. The M10 is no more or less professional than a GoPro if its the right camera for the job. Clients don't hire cameras they hire photographers.
    It appears you have misunderstood my questions. Apologies if I am not clear.

    I have been a dedicated photographer as well for more than 40 years. I would not choose an M10 to do field sports or motor sports as I did for twenty years with Nikons... for obvious reasons. I would actually like to know what working professionals actually do with M cameras. Not many have ever responded. So it is a fair question.

    I come from a Nikon, Leica, Hasselblad and now a Leica S background. I would not use the H5, or the S, or and Medium Format for many things. I recently sold a very good D850, because it was of no use for me.

    So, yes, equipment does make a difference.

    I simply ask the question about who is actually using M cameras professionally and what is their genre of shooting.

    I hear mostly crickets. So I patiently await.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post

    I simply ask the question about who is actually using M cameras professionally and what is their genre of shooting.

    I hear mostly crickets. So I patiently await.
    Some magnum photographers are still using their Ms.

    Bloggers routine make money with Leica M by writing about them and the latest must-have lens

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Meyerowitz, Jill Fredman, Costas Manos, Ralph Gibson are just a few of the greats that shoot with Leica digital Ms.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Alex Webb uses a digital M.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Ummm... thanks for the names listed above...however, famous photographers and the "elite" at the top of their profession are not examples I had in mind.

    In my world, those people are interesting for many reasons, but have no relevance to the reality each day brings my way.

    How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

    Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment?

    I see indications that may be the case. Or not.
    Last edited by dave.gt; 30th July 2019 at 01:58.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Anyway, back to the original post...

    As a long time user of film Leicas, RF and SLR, and a somewhat limited history of using digital Leica DSLRs, it seems to me that there are very few actually using the current Leica M models for paid work.

    The amazing work airfrogusmc has graciously shared, and a few others, is appreciated. It appears that the Leica M models are more or less a hobbyist/travel/casual use rather than used for paid work. At least that is my impression.

    It is also my impression that the Leica M10 could/should be more than that and has all it needs to be used in a professional endeavor. Identification of those markets is what I am researching. Perhaps a poll would shed some light on the subject.(???)
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    and some pro portrait work with Leica M










    Btw, these portraits are excellent!

    Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

    Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Itís a great camera with superb lenses. Just use it. The talent is you.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Btw, these portraits are excellent!

    Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

    Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.
    They look like 50/35 summilux images shot wide open - and well done. And maybe even 75 ‘lux at the end
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    ...
    How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

    Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment? ...
    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    ...
    As a long time user of film Leicas, RF and SLR, and a somewhat limited history of using digital Leica DSLRs, it seems to me that there are very few actually using the current Leica M models for paid work.

    The amazing work airfrogusmc has graciously shared, and a few others, is appreciated. It appears that the Leica M models are more or less a hobbyist/travel/casual use rather than used for paid work. At least that is my impression.

    It is also my impression that the Leica M10 could/should be more than that and has all it needs to be used in a professional endeavor. Identification of those markets is what I am researching. Perhaps a poll would shed some light on the subject.(???)
    Most photographers in the class that you're interrogating for do their paid-for work with equipment that belongs to their employer. For instance, my friend Steve used to use his own Olympus E-5 but now uses the Sony A7II that the employer bought and required him to use. My friend Linda similarly used to use her Rolleiflex, Mamiya RB67, and Leica M3, but now uses her employers' Nikon D700 and D300 for her paid work.

    When I was running my photo business and doing paid-for work, I used my own equipment since I was always a by-contract photographer rather than a staff photographer. I used Pentax, Nikon, Hasselblad, Panasonic, Leica, and Olympus equipment during those years. I closed that business before the M10 existed, but if I were still operating it and had decided to buy an M10, you can bet that I'd be using it too.

    Nowadays, if I take any job to do for others, I am most likely to use my Leica CL because it is my most versatile camera and I can count on it to deliver what I need, no question. This may change again when the Hasselblad 907x arrives.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Btw, these portraits are excellent!

    Which lens was used for those exquisite images?

    Thank you for sharing them, I would have mentioned that earlier but hospitals somewhat cramp my participation on forums.
    Thanks Dave,

    Formal portraits w/backdrop are with the 90 APO at usually at 2.8 or f/4 First one of the environmental portraits was with the 35 Summilux FLE (first one) and 90 APO the next two(at f/2) and 75 Summarit on the last environmental portrait. .

    Hope that you or whoever was in the hospital are feeling better.
    Last edited by airfrogusmc; 30th July 2019 at 09:56.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    AH I see, we were answering the wrong questions. Now I must ask you what is the purpose of your questions? The number of average joes who makes money (let's say $30,000 a year) is miniscule, for sure. Probably far less than the number of Instagram influencers who get more money from Instagram using their smartphones.

    So if you are asking: hmmm, I want to have some extra income, will getting a M10 get me that extra edge, the answer would no doubt be... "how good is your business game", followed by "how good is your photography regardless of gear".

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    The old saying is.... Well, there is no old saying in this case. No worries, I have my answers.

    Thank you all for your input.

    I am done here.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Ummm... thanks for the names listed above...however, famous photographers and the "elite" at the top of their profession are not examples I had in mind.

    In my world, those people are interesting for many reasons, but have no relevance to the reality each day brings my way.

    How about average people who live in cookie-cutter houses in the suburbs of a major metropolitan city, struggling daily to pay the bills and looking for a way to add a supplemental income? Like me.

    Has photography as a means of income (or at least an integral part of a working individual's efforts to make a living) for the "Average Joe" become impossible? Or is it a more subtle situation with roots in the ever-changing social/demographic environment?

    I see indications that may be the case. Or not.
    Have you seen Leica prices?

    For average working photographers, a Leica M system is simply not cost effective or flexible enough (average annual income for a photographer is around $30K). For enthusiasts/amateurs, it becomes harder to answer. I have found getting a camera I really want can be more cost effective because I use it for a very long time. I have made a few mistakes where I did not gel with something, but it worked more often than not.

    Still, Leica is a stretch for most. When you price out a three-lens kit, it is a major investment. Given the posts on GetDPI about their reliability, justifying an M becomes hard.

    I am most happy when I am shooting and producing work. Yes, I care about the equipment, but that goes so far--I have never met a perfect camera anyway. I spend quite a bit of time with my cameras just learning how to produce good results. It is only after that break in period that I am really comfortable with a camera. It becomes second nature, and extension of my vision, to use a cliche. It is also that most satisfying time to work. I guess the value of photography for me is the experience it brings. I like well designed and crafted gear, but that feeling wears off quickly leaving me with just the act of shooting.

    I also hate shopping for gear...
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    I can tell you this; even with the M-E and MM being recalled for a new sensor I have had less problem with my 2 M10s, M-E, MM and M 262 than I did with my Canon gear. I had a complete shutter failure when I was shooting for NATO when they were here in Chicago in 2012. I had a lot of issues with my Canons but the good thing is CPS is really good. I did get a 1Ds Mk III dead on arrival one time from CPS.
    Pros making 30K a year? Wow. Not around here unless they live with mom and dad. Our medical insurance for my wife and I is over 15K a year. I couldn't live on 30K a year. In fact I pay more in taxes than that a year.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    ...
    Pros making 30K a year? Wow. Not around here unless they live with mom and dad. Our medical insurance for my wife and I is over 15K a year. I couldn't live on 30K a year. In fact I pay more in taxes than that a year.
    Sadly, that is probably the realities for most pros. Yes, we know commercial shooters who make $100K-$200K a year, or even higher if you are named.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by richardman View Post
    Sadly, that is probably the realities for most pros. Yes, we know commercial shooters who make $100K-$200K a year, or even higher if you are named.
    I have a few friends that are full time pros and all of them make quite a bit over that. In this area like New York, LA San Fran or other larger cities rent alone would be over half that a year. A mortgage and property taxers would certainly be way more than half of 30K. If those making so little would quit giving their work away then they all might see a better income.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    I have a few friends that are full time pros and all of them make quite a bit over that. In this area like New York, LA San Fran or other larger cities rent alone would be over half that a year. A mortgage and property taxers would certainly be way more than half of 30K. If those making so little would quit giving their work away then they all might see a better income.
    Photography is a very broad field. A huge part of that is outside major centers with work like event/wedding gigs.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Photography is a very broad field. A huge part of that is outside major centers with work like event/wedding gigs.
    But even in a smaller market how can someone support a family on 30K a year?

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
    But even in a smaller market how can someone support a family on 30K a year?
    Most likely through a two-income household. I know a few photographers that work more than one job. The median household income for the US is just over $60,000, which is the highest it has been since 2007.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Just search for "photographer salary 2019"

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    In answer to the original question, I have used the M10 for editorial and art photography, and in the past I have done a few weddings for friends on the M series cameras, though in general I am not a wedding photographer. It is a good camera to use whenever you need high image quality in a small, discreet package. There are other cameras that can arguably do this more successfully now. For most pros, owning an M10 is not a practical business decision, but one made because they have a little flexibility and would prefer to get a tool that they like to use, over the most cost-effective one. Not every business decision boils down to the bottom line. Still, the M10 is more than capable of helping in those situations. I remember once I was doing an editorial feature for a large food magazine. I was assigned to photograph a certain list of restaurants for a feature on the Icelandic food scene. I went to one on the list and explained that I was photographing for an international magazine and was hoping to take photos. The manager said no, I could not. I had my M9 on my shoulder and asked, "are you sure, I will be quick and I will not bother anyone". She looked at the camera and said, "Oh, I thought you meant a professional camera...sure, go ahead." Little did she know, haha. I still don't know what she had in mind...maybe lots of lighting and flash? But either way, the M10 can be very helpful in situations like that. It is also excellent for the classic use cases -- travel, documentary etc. It is even more useful today than it was before, since you can bring an EVF and a telephoto lens (adapted or otherwise). There was the visoflex back in the day, but the EVF makes the M very flexible if you have a Leica R telephoto etc.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Why is this even a question? Of course you can use a digital M professionally. Only a few do, but so what.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Before leaving and starting my own business in the type of work I now do I was the staff photographer for a hospital and was there from 1991-2001 and when I left I was making just a hair over 50K and that was 2001.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    In answer to the original question, I have used the M10 for editorial and art photography, and in the past I have done a few weddings for friends on the M series cameras, though in general I am not a wedding photographer. It is a good camera to use whenever you need high image quality in a small, discreet package. There are other cameras that can arguably do this more successfully now. For most pros, owning an M10 is not a practical business decision, but one made because they have a little flexibility and would prefer to get a tool that they like to use, over the most cost-effective one. Not every business decision boils down to the bottom line. Still, the M10 is more than capable of helping in those situations. I remember once I was doing an editorial feature for a large food magazine. I was assigned to photograph a certain list of restaurants for a feature on the Icelandic food scene. I went to one on the list and explained that I was photographing for an international magazine and was hoping to take photos. The manager said no, I could not. I had my M9 on my shoulder and asked, "are you sure, I will be quick and I will not bother anyone". She looked at the camera and said, "Oh, I thought you meant a professional camera...sure, go ahead." Little did she know, haha. I still don't know what she had in mind...maybe lots of lighting and flash? But either way, the M10 can be very helpful in situations like that. It is also excellent for the classic use cases -- travel, documentary etc. It is even more useful today than it was before, since you can bring an EVF and a telephoto lens (adapted or otherwise). There was the visoflex back in the day, but the EVF makes the M very flexible if you have a Leica R telephoto etc.
    I have found unique camera types can be very disarming. Most people are expecting a large DSLR. But anything that does not conform to that, whether bigger or smaller, seems to catch people unaware, opening possibilities. My favorite was a Widelux swing lens panoramic camera. The downside was in a crowded place: one person would notice the lens swing. In the next frame, that person would be staring intently at the camera just to confirm the lens did actually move.

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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Why is this even a question? Of course you can use a digital M professionally. Only a few do, but so what.
    I think Dave was looking for a more nuanced response about the commonality of photographers that use Ms professionally rather than simply unwarranted and undeserved contempt.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Why is this even a question? Of course you can use a digital M professionally. Only a few do, but so what.
    Keep the answers nice -- snarky responses like this one will not be tolerated. Consider yourself warned.
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    Re: Leica M10 - Using it Professionally?

    Dave,

    I just wanted to add that for me whats most important is the M 10 really fits with the way I see and work.

    Allen
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