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Leica sl2 should be around the corner

Paratom

Well-known member
Will it be a Leica camera or Panasonic wrapped in sl body!! Double the price either way
Leica SL2 will be a Leica. Even if it had the same sensor it would still be a Leica. The user interface and menue system alone between Leica and Panasonic is sooo different. I can not image Leica will change this with the SL2.
The only Leica products which are relabled products from other brands are the compact cameras and the Nissin flashes.
 

msadat

Member
creating a menu system is not innovation, leica is taking S1R, changing the menu system and the case (body), this is not innovation. the problem I see is less and less R&D investment in digital cameras.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
creating a menu system is not innovation, leica is taking S1R, changing the menu system and the case (body), this is not innovation. the problem I see is less and less R&D investment in digital cameras.
How big is the commonality between S1R and SL2? It makes sense that Panasonic and Leica would collaborate, L-mount alliance also extends into component sharing. But I do not see any hints that SL2 will be a repackaged S1R (and testers have confirmed that SL2 is not a clone of S1R).

According to the latest rumors, SL2 uses a sensor similar to Q2, uses the Maestro III processor (vs Venus), and a different EVF (5.76m vs 5.2m). We'll know for sure tomorrow.

My hope is that M-lenses would work as well on SL2 as they work on SL.
 

msadat

Member
no, the same view finder. 5.7, same cmos, may be even the same processor but rebranded but for sure a different menu


How big is the commonality between S1R and SL2? It makes sense that Panasonic and Leica would collaborate, L-mount alliance also extends into component sharing. But I do not see any hints that SL2 will be a repackaged S1R (and testers have confirmed that SL2 is not a clone of S1R).

According to the latest rumors, SL2 uses a sensor similar to Q2, uses the Maestro III processor (vs Venus), and a different EVF (5.76m vs 5.2m). We'll know for sure tomorrow.

My hope is that M-lenses would work as well on SL2 as they work on SL.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
no, the same view finder. 5.7,
The latest leaked specs show that indeed, both SL2 and S1R have the same EVF resolution. They also have the same viewfinder eyepoint.

same cmos, may be even the same processor but rebranded but for sure a different menu
Do you mean the same sensor (including custom toppings)? Could be. SL2 seems to have the same multi-shot capability as S1R.

But the output of the sensor is vastly determined by the processor. There is no hint anywhere that Maestro III is only a rebranded Venus processor. Leica has put a lot of effort into developing their Maestro series, doubt they would abandon it.
As mentioned, an owner of S1R and beta tester of SL2 reported on LUF that SL2 is not a clone of S1R.

I hope that SL2 will work better with M lenses than S1R.

Soon we can discuss facts instead of speculations.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
the problem I see is less and less R&D investment in digital cameras.
If true (I don't have any data) I can still understand it. The market is shrinking, the margins are under pressure, R&D is expensive so companies start working together to leverage each others R&D (L-mount alliance is an example, but there are more). Same is happening in the car industry, more and more similar platforms with a different cloak rather than really fundamentally different designs. I like this better than the alternative which is several companies withdrawing and being left with very few brands, higher prices and less competition.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Will it be a Leica camera or Panasonic wrapped in sl body!! Double the price either way
Well you've kind hit the nail on the head regarding the SL2 - if it is 'just' a Panasonic it could be a tricky sell to existing users.

Leica see the SL series as where they want to spend their most digital development dollar (fwiw).

There are a few issues with SL and Leica that 'bug' a lot of users the two most prominent being - autofocus capability V eg Sony/Fuji and the silly Leica 'standard' for lighting - which means using studio lighting able to employ TTL and HSS is not on . It seems that the lighting 'issue' isn't being addressed and the SL2 will have the same autofocus system as panasonic we will know in a day.
 

msadat

Member
Well you've kind hit the nail on the head regarding the SL2 - if it is 'just' a Panasonic it could be a tricky sell to existing users.

Leica see the SL series as where they want to spend their most digital development dollar (fwiw).

There are a few issues with SL and Leica that 'bug' a lot of users the two most prominent being - autofocus capability V eg Sony/Fuji and the silly Leica 'standard' for lighting - which means using studio lighting able to employ TTL and HSS is not on . It seems that the lighting 'issue' isn't being addressed and the SL2 will have the same autofocus system as panasonic we will know in a day.

OH, leica flash!! this is one thing leica insists to use thier very own, i wish, they would have picked the Panasonic standard!
 

msadat

Member
So the addition of more microlenses to support M lenses is a plus but it seems leica is being conservative with the AF now. based on the review in dpreview, it seems it will take couple firmware to fully be as fast as the panasonic s1r. just about double the price, still not bad. battery life not good, but they should be able to roll out a better battery!
 

jonoslack

Active member
creating a menu system is not innovation, leica is taking S1R, changing the menu system and the case (body), this is not innovation. the problem I see is less and less R&D investment in digital cameras.
Well, it's not an S1R at least

Certainly some of the technology is coming from Panasonic (L mount consortium etc.) but the video abilities are more like the S1H (without the benefit of a fan and longer recording) Certainly better than the S1 - and a country mile better than the S1r

It's not just a new menu system - the focusing is radically modified the body completely different.

File format (and therefore colour etc.) are different. For what it's worth, here's my bit:

Https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-sl2.html

Best
Jono
 

msadat

Member
Well, it's not an S1R at least

Certainly some of the technology is coming from Panasonic (L mount consortium etc.) but the video abilities are more like the S1H (without the benefit of a fan and longer recording) Certainly better than the S1 - and a country mile better than the S1r

It's not just a new menu system - the focusing is radically modified the body completely different.

File format (and therefore colour etc.) are different. For what it's worth, here's my bit:

Https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-sl2.html

Best
Jono
Hi Jono, i did read your review and very nice as always. i like it, thay you always find the good in everything!
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Looks like a great addition but I also agree that it’s a harder sell for those that aren’t “Leica diehards” when you can get 95% of the camera for 2/3 the price in Lumix wrapping. Even still, if using M lenses is still important this is likely a better choice than the Panasonic version as the lens corrections will likely be built into the firmware already.

Regarding whether this is a Panasonic or a Leica... I suspect the truest answer is that it is both. Part of the L-mount alliance is a technology sharing platform and Leica has been using DFD technology since the Q and SL. Adding similar IVIS technology is a logical next step given that Panasonic has the beat on the business. It was “whispered” that Panasonic was doing a lot of background development on the Q and SL cameras back 4 or 5 years ago due to the rumors around TowerJazz designing the sensors for both. It would make a lot of sense that they were a silent partner in development. It would make a lot of sense that they were both invested in the success of the L-mount to see how far the alliance should go. Adding Sigma adds another company to share costs with and have natural product diversification. This also meshes with some of the Panasonic interviews regarding the LUMIX S development which places the the desire to add FF cameras back 8 years ago and the beginning of development for the LUMIX S to the 2015 timeframe. I don’t see this as a negative as it’s a relationship that makes sense with Panasonic’s expertise in electronics and Leica’s in lens design. I don’t know why SOME get offended at the notion but with rising R&D costs it behooves more companies to have symbiotic relationships and to share R&D cost by utilizing COTS parts where you can and custom one off processors where needed to achieve a desired result. Literally every industry does this and there are few companies that do it all. Not even a company like Sony does it all as they have strategic partnerships with Zeiss, Tamron, Samsung, etc. and they’ve also made strategic purchases where it made sense.

Also don’t be surprised to see a series of L-mount cinema/video cameras from both Panasonic and Leica (within the next 2-5 years) that also present a “one mount” strategic partnership that’ll accept not only L mount lenses but EF and PL mount ones as well through smart adapters. There’s a market for that that’s barely tapped IMO. Really only Sony is doing it now but I expect Canon to eventually move all of their Cinema EOS cameras to RF and perhaps Nikon will jump in as well once they have a healthier outlook for the company as a whole.

Just my opinion though.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
creating a menu system is not innovation, leica is taking S1R, changing the menu system and the case (body), this is not innovation. the problem I see is less and less R&D investment in digital cameras.
Ah, ok , then Panasonic took SL and changed the sensor to more MP and more noise. Is this innovation?
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Looks like a great addition but I also agree that it’s a harder sell for those that aren’t “Leica diehards” when you can get 95% of the camera for 2/3 the price in Lumix wrapping. Even still, if using M lenses is still important this is likely a better choice than the Panasonic version as the lens corrections will likely be built into the firmware already.

Regarding whether this is a Panasonic or a Leica... I suspect the truest answer is that it is both. Part of the L-mount alliance is a technology sharing platform and Leica has been using DFD technology since the Q and SL. Adding similar IVIS technology is a logical next step given that Panasonic has the beat on the business. It was “whispered” that Panasonic was doing a lot of background development on the Q and SL cameras back 4 or 5 years ago due to the rumors around TowerJazz designing the sensors for both. It would make a lot of sense that they were a silent partner in development. It would make a lot of sense that they were both invested in the success of the L-mount to see how far the alliance should go. Adding Sigma adds another company to share costs with and have natural product diversification. This also meshes with some of the Panasonic interviews regarding the LUMIX S development which places the the desire to add FF cameras back 8 years ago and the beginning of development for the LUMIX S to the 2015 timeframe. I don’t see this as a negative as it’s a relationship that makes sense with Panasonic’s expertise in electronics and Leica’s in lens design. I don’t know why SOME get offended at the notion but with rising R&D costs it behooves more companies to have symbiotic relationships and to share R&D cost by utilizing COTS parts where you can and custom one off processors where needed to achieve a desired result. Literally every industry does this and there are few companies that do it all. Not even a company like Sony does it all as they have strategic partnerships with Zeiss, Tamron, Samsung, etc. and they’ve also made strategic purchases where it made sense.

Also don’t be surprised to see a series of L-mount cinema/video cameras from both Panasonic and Leica (within the next 2-5 years) that also present a “one mount” strategic partnership that’ll accept not only L mount lenses but EF and PL mount ones as well through smart adapters. There’s a market for that that’s barely tapped IMO. Really only Sony is doing it now but I expect Canon to eventually move all of their Cinema EOS cameras to RF and perhaps Nikon will jump in as well once they have a healthier outlook for the company as a whole.

Just my opinion though.
Good points. To me, the ergonomics of SL2 and the camera itself look better than S1R. S1R overlaps with my Z 7, so I am not interested in S1R. But SL2's simplicity, M lens compatibility, and abeing able to use my existing Leica L-mount zooms, make SL2 interesting. Hope Leica will add focus shift shooting and mutiple exposure in a later firmware update.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Also don’t be surprised to see a series of L-mount cinema/video cameras from both Panasonic and Leica (within the next 2-5 years) that also present a “one mount” strategic partnership that’ll accept not only L mount lenses but EF and PL mount ones as well through smart adapters. There’s a market for that that’s barely tapped IMO. Really only Sony is doing it now but I expect Canon to eventually move all of their Cinema EOS cameras to RF and perhaps Nikon will jump in as well once they have a healthier outlook for the company as a whole.

Just my opinion though.
Hi There
I think one of the interesting things about the SL2 is how video centric it is, supporting anamorphic lenses, 400 mbps to SD card Vlog etc. etc. As I understand it, it is only really inferior to the Panasonic S1H in that it has no internal fan - and of course it has more resolution.

Best
 

msadat

Member
i think it is great to share technology, all good. the relevance of leica as a camera maker will be diminished if the sharing is oneway. this again is not leica bashing, the more leica investment in R&D, the better the alliance. that's it.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
i think it is great to share technology, all good. the relevance of leica as a camera maker will be diminished if the sharing is oneway. this again is not leica bashing, the more leica investment in R&D, the better the alliance. that's it.
The sensor "topping" seems to be different. Apart from different microlenses, Leica seems to have reduced the layers of glass from 3 to 2 (less reflection?).
 
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