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Unhealthy Forums

ron787

Member
I have deleted any links that I may have had to the Leica SL Forum. There lurks a level of insanity that I have not seen since my days as a medical intern, rotating through a city psyche unit.

It appears that many participants have lost all sense of reality and purpose, and have latched onto the Leica SL/2 as an object of extreme affection, to the extent that they will apparently defend its existence and alleged superiority with the ferocity of a devout cult follower.

The DPI forum is a breath of fresh air where sanity prevails.
 

ndwgolf

Active member
I have deleted any links that I may have had to the Leica SL Forum. There lurks a level of insanity that I have not seen since my days as a medical intern, rotating through a city psyche unit.

It appears that many participants have lost all sense of reality and purpose, and have latched onto the Leica SL/2 as an object of extreme affection, to the extent that they will apparently defend its existence and alleged superiority with the ferocity of a devout cult follower.

The DPI forum is a breath of fresh air where sanity prevails.
Leica SL forum where.........here or over at the Leica Forum?

Neil
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
Leica SL forum where.........here or over at the Leica Forum?

Neil
Well, we can guess hopefully he is talking about the same forum you had problems with yourself, not here at GetDPI. It is not clear at all, so...:facesmack:

Merry Christmas to all and may you have a Happy New Year!!!:)
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Leica SL forum where.........here or over at the Leica Forum?

Neil
It is too quite here to be a cause for trouble :).

For the record, I find LUF an excellent source of information. It is the place to go if you want to learn something about Leica cameras.

I assume that ron787 is ron777 on LUF (trying to understand his reasons for unhappiness with LUF).
 

Paratom

Well-known member
thats the internet. sometimes great source of information, sometimes a place of unregulated useless discussions. IMO all that helps is to decide on your own which disuccions make sense and which discussion do not make sense.
 

ron787

Member
thats the internet. sometimes great source of information, sometimes a place of unregulated useless discussions. IMO all that helps is to decide on your own which disuccions make sense and which discussion do not make sense.
Couldn't agree more.
 

ron787

Member
It is too quite here to be a cause for trouble :).

For the record, I find LUF an excellent source of information. It is the place to go if you want to learn something about Leica cameras.

I assume that ron787 is ron777 on LUF (trying to understand his reasons for unhappiness with LUF).
Leica Forum, IMO and experience, is not really an open forum in terms of discussion. While there are some open minded contributors, the majority appear to be comprised of single minded individuals, whose primary interest seems to revolve around demeaning competitive brands by claiming Red Dot superiority, when a review of the site will reveal, for example, many SL2 complaints ranging from noisy images to operational deficiencies that the contributors tend to minimize or attribute to newness. No such complaints, to my knowledge, have been lodged against their target—the Panasonic S1r.

I have been a longtime Leica user, and have owned just about every Leica ever produced—going back to their early film camera days—with the exception of the recently released SL2, whose UI does not interest me. And while I have supported the brand and still own and use Leica SL lenses, I would not hesitate to point out and admit to its deficiencies, while a significant number of forum contributors go out of their way to make excuses.

In addition, and perhaps most importantly, there has been, and possibly still is, a considerable amount of anger being tossed about that has been directed towards dissenters, or those who make the egregious error of favoring another FF brand (apparently, it's OK to own and use the much talked about Hasselblad, since it is not viewed as a competitor).

A forum, by nature and IMO, should be open to the discussion of the good, the bad and the ugly, without fear of emotionally tinged, verbal reprisal. Differences of opinion, on the other hand, can be the catalysts of discussion that can be both educational and stimulating, without the need for sophomoric taunting.

So, there you have it, an explanation for my departure from the Leica Forum.
 

spassig

Member
@ron787

You must be very frustrated?
You can shoot more pictures.
You cannot change the people.
Please post here the deficiencies of SL2.

Jochen
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Leica Forum, IMO and experience, is not really an open forum in terms of discussion. While there are some open minded contributors, the majority appear to be comprised of single minded individuals, whose primary interest seems to revolve around demeaning competitive brands by claiming Red Dot superiority, when a review of the site will reveal, for example, many SL2 complaints ranging from noisy images to operational deficiencies that the contributors tend to minimize or attribute to newness. No such complaints, to my knowledge, have been lodged against their target—the Panasonic S1r.

I have been a longtime Leica user, and have owned just about every Leica ever produced—going back to their early film camera days—with the exception of the recently released SL2, whose UI does not interest me. And while I have supported the brand and still own and use Leica SL lenses, I would not hesitate to point out and admit to its deficiencies, while a significant number of forum contributors go out of their way to make excuses.

In addition, and perhaps most importantly, there has been, and possibly still is, a considerable amount of anger being tossed about that has been directed towards dissenters, or those who make the egregious error of favoring another FF brand (apparently, it's OK to own and use the much talked about Hasselblad, since it is not viewed as a competitor).

A forum, by nature and IMO, should be open to the discussion of the good, the bad and the ugly, without fear of emotionally tinged, verbal reprisal. Differences of opinion, on the other hand, can be the catalysts of discussion that can be both educational and stimulating, without the need for sophomoric taunting.

So, there you have it, an explanation for my departure from the Leica Forum.
Sorry to read that you had a poor experience in LUF - sometimes it boils down to what one's expectations are in any place. However these types of declarations make for tedious reading and dont add much of interest to the forum - do they?

Still - in order to promote some sort of discussion I'll these personal observations.

The most interesting sections of LUF (for me anyway) are the general photography sections - where people post their photographs.

I've got little time or interest in reading people's views on why their choice of camera or lens is better than someone else's different choices.

You seem to have some strong views about the 'deficiencies' of the SL2 V something different - Panasonic came out with their L mount cameras a lot earlier than Leica's SL2 was announced. Many SL users (like me) didn't know if Leica were going to bring out an SL2. Many posters in the LUF L mount forum(s) bought Panasonic cameras and are quite happy with their choices and quite vocal about their preferences - I'm surprised that you felt taunted by your favouring of Panasonic since so many posters in LUF are actual users of the Panasonic cameras and quite vocal about the correctness of their decisions and quite detailed about the superiority of this or that thing V this or that thing that Leica does...

No camera company can please everyone - so no surprises when people discuss different cameras from different needs and experience levels and expectations - disagree with each other's choice of camera.

If one peels the layers of the onion - inevitably discussions end up revolving around some reference to price V value. It is pretty obvious that comparing the performance of a Panasonic FF to the Sl2 as far as IQ goes - there isn't any great difference.

It is also pretty obvious (to me) that as far as making any image goes - all camera manufacturers present many options - so the whole gear based discussion in forums is a rather silly one from a photographic output point of view. I haven't seen an image posted from anyone in any forum that couldn't be made with pretty much any similarly specd camera from any other manufacturer.

Look at this forum with its 'fun with' this or that version of a Leica camera - it is a gear based structure - and a few of us have commented that this fragmentation even within the context of s single forum - serves to detract from the ability of those interested in - photographs to see what people are doing without clicking on a lot of different threads about a specific camera.

If one goes to that part of GETDPI where like minded people want to promote gear agnostic photography - there are (relatively) few photographers who venture in these sections.

Unlike other forums including this one LUF has a relatively healthy general photography section with many long running subsections for specific genres of photography rather than specific cameras - this makes LUF fairly unique and when combined with Leica's own gallery and extensive magazines digital and printed - delivers a user experience not defined by the 12 month cycle of new cameras which other manufacturers prefer.

Years ago I would have challenged your implied criticism(s) of the SL2 v whatever else but that would end up being a waste of everyone's time. If a person really 'needs' forums to help them decide on what camera/lenses they should or shouldn't buy - perhaps they should just stick with what they already own and use that.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
Sorry to read that you had a poor experience in LUF - sometimes it boils down to what one's expectations are in any place. However these types of declarations make for tedious reading and dont add much of interest to the forum - do they?

Still - in order to promote some sort of discussion I'll these personal observations.

The most interesting sections of LUF (for me anyway) are the general photography sections - where people post their photographs.

I've got little time or interest in reading people's views on why their choice of camera or lens is better than someone else's different choices.

You seem to have some strong views about the 'deficiencies' of the SL2 V something different - Panasonic came out with their L mount cameras a lot earlier than Leica's SL2 was announced. Many SL users (like me) didn't know if Leica were going to bring out an SL2. Many posters in the LUF L mount forum(s) bought Panasonic cameras and are quite happy with their choices and quite vocal about their preferences - I'm surprised that you felt taunted by your favouring of Panasonic since so many posters in LUF are actual users of the Panasonic cameras and quite vocal about the correctness of their decisions and quite detailed about the superiority of this or that thing V this or that thing that Leica does...

No camera company can please everyone - so no surprises when people discuss different cameras from different needs and experience levels and expectations - disagree with each other's choice of camera.

If one peels the layers of the onion - inevitably discussions end up revolving around some reference to price V value. It is pretty obvious that comparing the performance of a Panasonic FF to the Sl2 as far as IQ goes - there isn't any great difference.

It is also pretty obvious (to me) that as far as making any image goes - all camera manufacturers present many options - so the whole gear based discussion in forums is a rather silly one from a photographic output point of view. I haven't seen an image posted from anyone in any forum that couldn't be made with pretty much any similarly specd camera from any other manufacturer.

Look at this forum with its 'fun with' this or that version of a Leica camera - it is a gear based structure - and a few of us have commented that this fragmentation even within the context of s single forum - serves to detract from the ability of those interested in - photographs to see what people are doing without clicking on a lot of different threads about a specific camera.

If one goes to that part of GETDPI where like minded people want to promote gear agnostic photography - there are (relatively) few photographers who venture in these sections.

Unlike other forums including this one LUF has a relatively healthy general photography section with many long running subsections for specific genres of photography rather than specific cameras - this makes LUF fairly unique and when combined with Leica's own gallery and extensive magazines digital and printed - delivers a user experience not defined by the 12 month cycle of new cameras which other manufacturers prefer.

Years ago I would have challenged your implied criticism(s) of the SL2 v whatever else but that would end up being a waste of everyone's time. If a person really 'needs' forums to help them decide on what camera/lenses they should or shouldn't buy - perhaps they should just stick with what they already own and use that.[/QUOTE

So.., is this a thread about "nasty" people or the "problems" with a fine camera?

I prefer simply to make photos in spite of every camera with deficiencies. Which happens to be all of them I suppose. Life is too short to wait for a perfect camera.

But what does one do about the people one doesn't like? :loco:

All I can say is, "Welcome to our little world!!!":):):)

We would all love to share an espresso/coffee with you anytime!:thumbup:
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Let me quote from the LUF Admin's "What this forum is for"

What the forum is not for

This isn’t the place for those who think that Leica, Leica products and Leica customers are inadequate, deceitful or stupid.

Some members, apparently, use the forum exclusively to express the same criticisms again and again, spoiling for others the enjoyment of their hobby.

This isn’t a forum for sycophants and fanboys but neither is it a Leica-bashing community. No-one in the Leica forum should ever have to justify their purchase of a Leica product or their enjoyment of it.
This is the line most often crossed by those who receive a negative response from other users.

Matt
 

Chris C

Member
..... I find LUF an excellent source of information. It is the place to go if you want to learn something about Leica cameras.....
Leica Forum, IMO and experience, is not really an open forum in terms of discussion......In addition, and perhaps most importantly, there has been, and possibly still is, a considerable amount of anger being tossed about that has been directed towards dissenters.......
I agree with these clipped opinions, and it's no coincidence that I'm posting this here rather than LUF. I used to post there but realised it wasn't fun when I was libelled at LUF by a self appointed Cardinal of the Faith [after one mildly 'heretical' post perceived as too critical and dissenting for LUF]; he has risen through the serving priests and cardinals to now be a 'Moderator' there. That was a few years ago, I look in there most days but do not post. That 'Moderator' at LUF remains [after all this time] the only person on my LUF 'ignore' list, which works extremely well!

None of that is important of course, except the conceit of LUF is that Leica listens to them; my concern is that it might be true! Leica is a really interesting company, but I'd rather it wasn't turning it's ear to the influence of high praise, low criticism mantra repeaters.

And yet; I'm writing this here and not at LUF. The early days of the LUF M8 forum was an invigorating place with some tremendous, and generous, contributors; but it morphed into a place where critical posts were considered blasphemous rather than invigorating and contributory. I've long thought it why Guy was moved to leave LUF to set up home at getdpi, why Sean Reid had enough of being berated by hobbyists with Leica-religiosity mantra convictions, and why David Adamson had better things to do than be in the firing line of keyboard warriors. [From memory; David Adamson was an early pioneer of high quality ink-jet printing, and his gallery was producing prints for the likes of Lee Friedlander, Bill Brandt's estate, and other notable artists in the history of photography].

I don't have a wise conclusion for this post, and 'it is what it is' is a poor cop-out; nonetheless it is what it is and I'd prefer it otherwise.

Christmas and New Year greetings to all dissenters and over-doers.

............ Chris
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
Let me quote from the LUF Admin's "What this forum is for"



This is the line most often crossed by those who receive a negative response from other users.

Matt
Speaking for myself - failure to understand or appreciate or have the basic civility of an average person on the part of so many non Leica users constantly injecting venom or making up negative threads - has had the effect of decimating interest in what was once a very healthy forum in here - sad really.

the only 'cure' is to post photos to share with like minded people and ignore the noise.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
Let me quote from the LUF Admin's "What this forum is for"



This is the line most often crossed by those who receive a negative response from other users.

Matt
Well said, Matt!

And I am sure it applies to us coffeeheads, too!
:ROTFL:

Hmmm... I think it is just about time for a nice cup of coffee to finish off the day.:)
 

ndwgolf

Active member
I regularly posted pictures in all of there gallery sections and 9 times out of 10 I would get a bunch of thanks/comments bla bla bla.............Then about 5 or 6 years ago I came across there Barnack Bar where you can go for a chit chat about anything. I would make posts there and literly get hundreds and hundreds of replies, it could be about coffee wine viagra anything but ever dare you say anything dentramental about any of the leica products .....god help you. I would get messages from moderators asking me to back off on something that they aggreed on but didnt want there boss to get p!ssed off. Eventually he Anders Andrew or what ever his name is said i had to stop using it like my own personal facebook...............no idea where the hell that came from, like I said I would get hundreds of replies but in the end I couldnt stand listing to the constant defence of there presious leica gear and there prase of pictures that looked like the camera had gone off while getting pulled out of the Buckingham palace bags
So I asked the big man to cancel my account and stop collecting sponcer money from me.......he replay was if I leave I will be banned for ever..........I guess Im banned :D
Neil
 
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