M10 Monochrome

[D&A]

Thanks Dave - as I said I have resisted the allure of the M10M - so I haven't spent much time looking at all the specs etc - I will check this information out as (for me) the compulsory use of neutral density filters in order to shoot wide open with a Noctilux in particular (why else own it?) lacked amenity.
Pete

You're welcome. Don't quote me (there are certainly those who know a lot more than I do), but I believe without the Bayer filter, the amount of light reaching the sensor is greater, than a equivalent Bayer filter camera and thus results in higher base ISO….that combined with more pixels (or a greater density of pixels), results in the M10M having a higher measured base ISO than even its predecessor, the M246 monochrome.

Agree, unless one employs the use of ND filters, the use of very fast glass wide open becomes an issue in good light.

Dave (D&A)

 

[PeterA]

You're welcome. Don't quote me (there are certainly those who know a lot more than I do), but I believe without the Bayer filter, the amount of light reaching the sensor is greater, than a equivalent Bayer filter camera and thus results in higher base ISO….that combined with more pixels (or a greater density of pixels), results in the M10M having a higher measured base ISO than even its predecessor, the M246 monochrome.

Agree, unless one employs the use of ND filters, the use of very fast glass wide open becomes an issue in good light.

Dave (D&A)

Went over to LUF and read the thread - it seems that things really haven't changed much as far as the base ISO penalty goes...so called blown highlights have never really bothered me - I like black blacks and dont mind sparkling whites in prints which is why I shoot (to make prints) a lot of the discussions re fall off curves come from the perspective of film shooters- wanting digital to be just like film - I shot slide much more thana film so 4-5EVF is plenty of DR for my purposes !As an aside I've reached out to Leica and they re dong refurbished like new original MM's for 1/3rd the price of the latest AND you get to pick your colour leather :ROTFL::ROTFL: People say the second generation was better than the CCD original - on internet display - I never saw it.

of course the obvious solution to the base ISO issue - is an SL body camera with an inbuilt ND filter ( ala Fuji with their X100 series) ....

Pete

 

[D&A]

Went over to LUF and read the thread - it seems that things really haven't changed much as far as the base ISO penalty goes...so called blown highlights have never really bothered me - I like black blacks and dont mind sparkling whites in prints which is why I shoot (to make prints) a lot of the discussions re fall off curves come from the perspective of film shooters- wanting digital to be just like film - I shot slide much more thana film so 4-5EVF is plenty of DR for my purposes !As an aside I've reached out to Leica and they re dong refurbished like new original MM's for 1/3rd the price of the latest AND you get to pick your colour leather :ROTFL::ROTFL: People say the second generation was better than the CCD original - on internet display - I never saw it.

of course the obvious solution to the base ISO issue - is an SL body camera with an inbuilt ND filter ( ala Fuji with their X100 series) ....

Pete

Leica (Germany) have been offering these refurbished M9s, M9-P and MM1's for a few months now and many have been sold. As you mentioned it comes with choice of leather, and of course the new non-corrosive sensor. The MM1 in my opinion has a look among the monochrom's all its own in many circumstances. Not better but different....just as the CCD M9 has a look all its own in color imagery that not easily duplicated by the MOS successors, regardless of post processing techniques employed. Each has its place. Sort off like dishes in ones favorite cuisine restaurant. Everyone has different taste and expectations.

Dave (D&A)

 

[SrMphoto]

Peter,

There is a current discussion on LUF that the new M10M measures a base ISO between something like (approx) 400 to 640 (or thereabouts). I believe it was also confirmed at Leica through a discussion. If the camera's ISO dial is set to a lower ISO, the DR seems to be reduced and highlights often blown if one say meters by an external meter and sets ISO on meter according to what the ISO dial reads. Again I am just trying to recall the details I read earlier.

Dave (D&A)

That information is based on Sean Reid's excellent analysis of highlights recovery at various ISOs. There is no measurement of DR at various ISO-s, yet. For that, we have to wait for Bill Claff.
There is also no confirmation from Leica, AFAIK.

 

[SrMphoto]

FYI, the latest LR/ACR update, among other things, added support for M10M cameras. Noticeable changes:

- lens correction works now
- a default contrast curve is applied
- default noise reduction is applied (depends on ISO)

 

[D&A]

Just to note, the LUF thread regarding base ISO of the M10 monochrome is continuing to have additional input and info which has added to the discussion.

Dave (D&A)

 

[PeterA]

Just to note, the LUF thread regarding base ISO of the M10 monochrome is continuing to have additional input and info which has added to the discussion.

Dave (D&A)

Thanks Dave - interesting to read that maybe the new M10M has a base ISO of 200 for maximum DR - I think I have almost made my mind up to buy one of those refurbished liek new original M9 Monochroms - all I have to do is decide what colour leather - thinking either yellow or Burgundy at this stage - I think the camera is a steal at the prices Leica are quoting!

many happy memories using the original MM - it is time to make up for selling it....

 

[D&A]

Peter, just by chance you haven't seen or been following it.....there is a 10 page thread on LUF regarding the Leica M9 and M9M refurbished cameras and peoples experience on ordering and receiving theirs. The link is :

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/299748-leica-refurbished-ccd-m9-and-m9p-for-sale/

Dave (D&A)

 

[SrMphoto]

Bill Claff just published PDR measurements for Leica M10 Monochrom:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica%20M10,Leica%20M10%20MONOCHROM

Highest dynamic range measured at ISO 160.

 

[PeterA]

Thanks for the lin S. Interestingly the SL2 tops out @ ISO 50 - but overall the M10M has stellar performance - much better than the SL2 for DR all the way up the ISO range and not too far behind the GFX100.

 

[KeithDM]

The Sound of £10k Hitting the Deck

Was walking a long a hospital corridor Thurs afternoon with my two-week old M10 Monochrom (& 50mm Summilux-M ASPH) dangling from my left shoulder, preoccupied with finding my way through a maze of corridors when I was startled by a loud metallic crashing noise. Looked down and there on the floor were camera/lens - I think my blood pressure and heart rate instantly both hit new highs! With a feeling of utter dread at what I might find, I picked them up and initial examination revealed only a large dent in the (extended) hood. Externally the M10M seemed unmarked but the first worry was rangefinder alignment. Arriving at the waiting room of the department where my wife had an appointment, I took a couple of shots (close-up & mid-distance) which on the LCD looked OK. Changed to the 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH that was in my bag and checked the 50mm over. Due to the dent the hood was jammed in the extended position but otherwise seemed unharmed.

How could the camera slide from my shoulder? Well, I was wearing a heavy winter coat and was used to having other M's dangling from my shoulder with never a hint of them sliding off - the difference with the M10M is the leather strap compared to the standard Leica nylon strap with its very grippy, knobbly shoulder pad. Somewhat shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, this morning I fitted the M10M with the standard strap from my M240.

Next item on the agenda was rangefinder alignment. Fitted with 135mm Telyt-APO this morning I sallied forth for a short walk mainly to find some distant views but also taking test shots at various distances. Having done so I took similar shots with the dented 50mm. With the results now on the computer, zooming into to 200% and even 300% shows no indication of misalignment in either portrait or landscape formats. (Ignore the dust spots on the attached photo and yes, I was able to unscrew the undamaged filter). Recommendations as to where to have the 50mm's hood replaced welcomed.

So, seemingly a lucky escape from an incident seared into my memory and a lesson learnt - i.e.the coefficient of friction twixt a Leica leather strap and cotton is far too low for safety!

 

[pegelli]

I didn't dare to "like" your post above Keith since it's a terrible story but with what seems a happy ending (except maybe for the hood of your 50 mm). Not something I want to repeat

 

[SrMphoto]

Sorry to hear about your mishap Keith, and glad that the camera is OK.

My favorite Leica strap is the inexpensive #14312 strap (with anti-slip pad). However, I do not use it on M10 cameras as those cameras do not have the plastic protection lugs on the body (as seen on M240, M9, M8). My concern is that the strap's plastic ring holders will scratch up the body. Instead, I use straps that have leather protection flaps at the ends (similarly to the included leather strap).

 

[PeterA]

The Sound of £10k Hitting the Deck

Was walking a long a hospital corridor Thurs afternoon with my two-week old M10 Monochrom (& 50mm Summilux-M ASPH) dangling from my left shoulder, preoccupied with finding my way through a maze of corridors when I was startled by a loud metallic crashing noise. Looked down and there on the floor were camera/lens - I think my blood pressure and heart rate instantly both hit new highs! With a feeling of utter dread at what I might find, I picked them up and initial examination revealed only a large dent in the (extended) hood. Externally the M10M seemed unmarked but the first worry was rangefinder alignment. Arriving at the waiting room of the department where my wife had an appointment, I took a couple of shots (close-up & mid-distance) which on the LCD looked OK. Changed to the 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH that was in my bag and checked the 50mm over. Due to the dent the hood was jammed in the extended position but otherwise seemed unharmed.

How could the camera slide from my shoulder? Well, I was wearing a heavy winter coat and was used to having other M's dangling from my shoulder with never a hint of them sliding off - the difference with the M10M is the leather strap compared to the standard Leica nylon strap with its very grippy, knobbly shoulder pad. Somewhat shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, this morning I fitted the M10M with the standard strap from my M240.

Next item on the agenda was rangefinder alignment. Fitted with 135mm Telyt-APO this morning I sallied forth for a short walk mainly to find some distant views but also taking test shots at various distances. Having done so I took similar shots with the dented 50mm. With the results now on the computer, zooming into to 200% and even 300% shows no indication of misalignment in either portrait or landscape formats. (Ignore the dust spots on the attached photo and yes, I was able to unscrew the undamaged filter). Recommendations as to where to have the 50mm's hood replaced welcomed.

So, seemingly a lucky escape from an incident seared into my memory and a lesson learnt - i.e.the coefficient of friction twixt a Leica leather strap and cotton is far too low for safety!

The hood is attached via three rubber/plastic extrusions into which the hood slips and turns to lock. If you can get the hood off - without damaging the extrusions - all you need is a conical shape to press the hood out round again and slip it back on - it is self locking.

Pete

 

[Knorp]

You've had a lucky escape then, Keith. I know the feeling all too well. On various occasions, different causes, I've dropped an M8 and an M9 both suffered from a misaligned rangefinder but apart from a few scratches all mendable.
Anyway, I've always and still do wear my straps crossbody. Right from the very start of this 'hobby' I never ever dared to have a camera just dangling from my shoulders ... :shocked:
Good luck with the lens hood repair.

Brgds.

 

[GrahamWelland]

The hood is attached via three rubber/plastic extrusions into which the hood slips and turns to lock. If you can get the hood off - without damaging the extrusions - all you need is a conical shape to press the hood out round again and slip it back on - it is self locking.

Pete

you can also get replacements - how do I know ... however, I haven’t been able to remove my old hood and replace it yet. I figure that I’ll wait until it’s bent further or I ever decide to sell it.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Keith, I highly recommend the UPstrap, but I'm not sure whether they're available in the UK. The UPstrap has saved my gear on several occasions.

Joe

+1 on upstrap. My straps of choice for all of my cameras, well the heavy ones. Super grippy and Kevlar straps too.

 

[ndwgolf]

Sorry about the strap Steve. I'm still in the group of S007 or X1D will knock the socks off the M10 monogram.
Thank of it this way. The M10 is slightly smaller than the S and bigger than the XID.........it's all relative. As for the Len good I did the same to my noctilux and Leica replaced it for freedom

 

[Sebben]

Does anyone know which colour channel the look of the M10M matches? Blue, Green or Red?

 

[PeterA]

+1 on upstrap. My straps of choice for all of my cameras, well the heavy ones. Super grippy and Kevlar straps too.

After the self extracting steel ring from the Leica Lug e[pisode and a failed Leica leather strap doing the same thing previously on an MM body - I've decided to completely abandon any such risk and go Peak Design system - on everything. Yes if you can't remove the hood - it will be a Leica repair and replace job I think...