M10 Monochrome

[PeterA]

Does anyone know which colour channel the look of the M10M matches? Blue, Green or Red?

Think of Leicas baked in recipes for converting luminosity levels as a given a formula we can never know but can always see.(amonocrom chip only 'sees' in luminosity levels that is the point of it) as a given ( just like B&W Film)


In order to change the formula you can effect the reading of lumosity llevels AND /OR use colour sliders in post processing the raw file.

you can use two levels of 'filter' that manipulate lumonisty levels firstly by screwing on old fashioned colour filters to the front of you lens ( orange is a popular one for the monocrom) and or using the DNG file in post processing and using the colour sliders - in B&W mode. (red chanel is the most popular for skin for example)

 

[ndwgolf]

Does anyone know which colour channel the look of the M10M matches? Blue, Green or Red?

I think it just comes in black. Leica usually brings them out in silver as a second batch
Neil

 

[D&A]

Keith, extremely sorry to hear of this unfortunate episode. I think many of us know of, or have experienced a similar sinking feeling when these sort of accidents happen. I haven't had personal experience with the Up-Strap but have known others who praise it as well as those who just recommended it here on Getdpi. If you decide to go with one and its not available in the U.K., I'd be more than happy to assist in ordering you one and mailing it off. Glad to hear all seems to be functioning well but maybe for piece of mind, when convenient, I might suggest having Leica look over the M10M and/or lens.

Dave (D&A)

 

[SrMphoto]

Sorry about the strap Steve. I'm still in the group of S007 or X1D will knock the socks off the M10 monogram.
Thank of it this way. The M10 is slightly smaller than the S and bigger than the XID.........it's all relative. As for the Len good I did the same to my noctilux and Leica replaced it for freedom

My M10 Monochrom knocks the sock off my X1D II in black and white... IMHO . M10 is also quite a bit smaller than X1D (link).

 

[KeithDM]

Keith, extremely sorry to hear of this unfortunate episode. I think many of us know of, or have experienced a similar sinking feeling when these sort of accidents happen. I haven't had personal experience with the Up-Strap but have known others who praise it as well as those who just recommended it here on Getdpi. If you decide to go with one and its not available in the U.K., I'd be more than happy to assist in ordering you one and mailing it off. Glad to hear all seems to be functioning well but maybe for piece of mind, when convenient, I might suggest having Leica look over the M10M and/or lens.

Dave (D&A)

Thank you Dave for the offer (and thanks to all others re advice on straps & avoiding a repetition!). For the time being I have fitted the standard Leica nylon one with its grippy shoulder/neck pad - I know that one will never slide off my shoulder... Until I find an alternative (prefer to source locally) a small piece of black tape on the backs of the black plastic locking end-pieces will prevent any marking of the body.

As to the lens, will definitely have to be sent away for a new hood. In the meantime my ZM 50mm C-Sonnar (usually residing on my M7) will deputise - a role it fulfilled on this afternoon's outing.

 

[SrMphoto]

Thank you Dave for the offer (and thanks to all others re advice on straps & avoiding a repetition!). For the time being I have fitted the standard Leica nylon one with its grippy shoulder/neck pad - I know that one will never slide off my shoulder... Until I find an alternative (prefer to source locally) a small piece of black tape on the backs of the black plastic locking end-pieces will prevent any marking of the body.

As to the lens, will definitely have to be sent away for a new hood. In the meantime my ZM 50mm C-Sonnar (usually residing on my M7) will deputise - a role it fulfilled on this afternoon's outing.

I would really like to use that strap as well. Good idea with the tape. I will try to find a piece of self-adhesive leather and wrap it around the plastic part.

 

[Sebben]

I think it just comes in black. Leica usually brings them out in silver as a second batch
Neil

What I meant was that I would like to know which colour channel the M10M resembles most. Red, green or blue.

Colour


Red


Green


Blue

 

[Shashin]

What I meant was that I would like to know which colour channel the M10M resembles most. Red, green or blue.

Visually, probably green, but the camera is not simply green sensitive. The tricky thing with the monochrom is that it records radiometric rather than photometric light values--photometric values are radiometric values converted to our color perception. Radiometric values are simply proportional to the light intensity, regardless of color. If you photograph a color checker, for example, blues will appear a bit brighter with the Monochrom than from a converted color image into B&W.

 

[KeithDM]

When I load a user profile it shows on the rear screen - fine. But after the camera has been turned off then on again, the profile has not been retained - I have to select it again. Surely once selected, the profile should remain active until another one is selected? Certainly with my M240, the chosen profile remains active unless/until I choose another one.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[TimothyHyde]

Keith, I highly recommend the UPstrap, but I'm not sure whether they're available in the UK. The UPstrap has saved my gear on several occasions.

Joe

Which one for this camera, Joe? Thanks.

 

[Oren Grad]

Visually, probably green, but the camera is not simply green sensitive. The tricky thing with the monochrom is that it records radiometric rather than photometric light values...

Not quite, apparently:

http://chromasoft.blogspot.com/2012/05/leica-m-monochroms-spectral-sensitivity.html

Dunno about the M246 or the M10M.

 

[KeithDM]

Exploring the capabilities of my M10M, I have used it with coded and uncoded lenses. With (for example) my ZM 50mm C-Sonnar I created a user profile, saved it as a named profile and made sure it what shown as active. Turn the camera off then on again - no profile active - I have to reselect an uncoded lens profile every time. A profile using a coded lens stays in memory and remains active after turning the camera off and on. With my M240, a selected profile remains active independent of whether it is for a coded or for an uncoded lens.

I have communicated this issue to Wetzlar via Leica UK and hopefully at some point the firmware will be updated. However, feedback on the L-Camera forum is that the M10 has had same problem right from the start. Which would indicate the Wetzlar do not see it as anything approaching a priority issue!

Any other M10M user finding the same issue with uncoded lenses?

 

[mkerouac]

Think of Leicas baked in recipes for converting luminosity levels as a given a formula we can never know but can always see.(amonocrom chip only 'sees' in luminosity levels that is the point of it) as a given ( just like B&W Film)


In order to change the formula you can effect the reading of lumosity llevels AND /OR use colour sliders in post processing the raw file.

you can use two levels of 'filter' that manipulate lumonisty levels firstly by screwing on old fashioned colour filters to the front of you lens ( orange is a popular one for the monocrom) and or using the DNG file in post processing and using the colour sliders - in B&W mode. (red chanel is the most popular for skin for example)

I have to admit that the M10M is my first M Monochrome, so I'm a total newb. I have done a lot of black and white conversions in LR using full color files (which led me to the M10M). In that case the color mixer is available to simulate using color filters on a lens. But with the M10M, even with DNG files, LR indicates that its a Monochrome file and the color mixer sliders are not available. Am I missing something? I also expected Monochrome DNG files to be flat, but I was surprised just how flat the M10M DNG files actually are. I have to be very heavy handed with the black slider in LR to get acceptable contrast and then I end up fighting with shadow and highlight sliders too. Any help and/or tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ndwgolf]

I have to admit that the M10M is my first M Monochrome, so I'm a total newb. I have done a lot of black and white conversions in LR using full color files (which led me to the M10M). In that case the color mixer is available to simulate using color filters on a lens. But with the M10M, even with DNG files, LR indicates that its a Monochrome file and the color mixer sliders are not available. Am I missing something? I also expected Monochrome DNG files to be flat, but I was surprised just how flat the M10M DNG files actually are. I have to be very heavy handed with the black slider in LR to get acceptable contrast and then I end up fighting with shadow and highlight sliders too. Any help and/or tips would be greatly appreciated.

I found the same with mine, spending loads of time having to post process the files...... personally I think it's a gimmick and that's why I sold mine. Better off with a hasselblad and convert the file to B&W if you want to
Neil

 

[tcdeveau]

In that case the color mixer is available to simulate using color filters on a lens. But with the M10M, even with DNG files, LR indicates that its a Monochrome file and the color mixer sliders are not available. Am I missing something? I also expected Monochrome DNG files to be flat, but I was surprised just how flat the M10M DNG files actually are. I have to be very heavy handed with the black slider in LR to get acceptable contrast and then I end up fighting with shadow and highlight sliders too. Any help and/or tips would be greatly appreciated.

The M10M uses a monochrom sensor that lacks a color filter array, so there is no color information in the files to manipulate (hence the lack of color sliders). If you want to simulate color filters with the M10M, it has to be done with filters on the lens and can’t be done in post.

Lack of ability to manipulate to manipulate color channels is a disadvantage of Monochrom/achromatic cameras. You gain resolution, light sensitivity, and some say better tonal transitions, but some think it’s not worth it.

I personally am enjoying the M10M but am just getting used to it...haven’t played around much in post or with color filters on the lenses.

 

[mkerouac]

The M10M uses a monochrom sensor that lacks a color filter array, so there is no color information in the files to manipulate (hence the lack of color sliders). If you want to simulate color filters with the M10M, it has to be done with filters on the lens and can’t be done in post.

Lack of ability to manipulate to manipulate color channels is a disadvantage of Monochrom/achromatic cameras. You gain resolution, light sensitivity, and some say better tonal transitions, but some think it’s not worth it.

I personally am enjoying the M10M but am just getting used to it...haven’t played around much in post or with color filters on the lenses.

I have seen stunning results from others with the camera, and the files are super clean. But the DNG files are not close to useable out of camera. The amount of post processing for DNG files is a chore. I feel like the dng files come out of the camera with all the blacks set at 18% gray. I have my black slider in LR at a minimum of -35, most times -60. I'm hoping I can create some presets to cover most situations.

 

[mkerouac]

Think of Leicas baked in recipes for converting luminosity levels as a given a formula we can never know but can always see.(amonocrom chip only 'sees' in luminosity levels that is the point of it) as a given ( just like B&W Film)


In order to change the formula you can effect the reading of lumosity llevels AND /OR use colour sliders in post processing the raw file.

you can use two levels of 'filter' that manipulate lumonisty levels firstly by screwing on old fashioned colour filters to the front of you lens ( orange is a popular one for the monocrom) and or using the DNG file in post processing and using the colour sliders - in B&W mode. (red chanel is the most popular for skin for example)

Peter the color mixer sliders are not available with M10M DNG files. Only way to simulate old fashioned color filters is to actually use them. Based on your comments above, I was hoping I missed something in LR, nope, not there. Filters sound like fun in theory. PIA in practice. I'm trying very hard to figure out the M10M. The files are super clean, but super flat. The camera itself requires a lot of finesse. Especially with any HDR scenes. Exposure has to be spot on, with highlights. I've seen some stunning images from other owners, so I know that it can be done.

 

[KeithDM]

Am somewhat puzzled by the posts re the need for extensive post-processing of the .dng's. Have had my M10M since early Feb and was quickly able to settle on a methodology that is certainly not time-consuming (patience is not one of my strong points...). On the camera I usually have exp comp set to -0.3, sometimes -0.7. Import into LR Classic and click on 'Auto' at which LR applies a custom tone curve, then go into the Development panel for a play with the sliders. Sometimes I might reduce contrast then boost clarity depending on the subject. Rarely use the dehaze slider. Example dev panel and result below. On my Flickr page is my M10M album with over 250 photos covering a wide variety of subjects and conditions. All in all I thoroughly enjoy the camera and results - such that my M7 and 503CX have lain unused since it arrived.

Example taken with 21mm Super Elmar-M f3.4 + orange filter.

 

[mkerouac]

Thank you for the post Keith. This is helpful. I have never let LR make decisions for me before, but this may be an easy solution. I did notice that I had to set negative exposure comp. I have a White House and a white dog, so photos taken in my yard, revealed that the sensor would easily blow out highlights if I wasn't careful.

 

[Geoff]

Am somewhat puzzled by the posts re the need for extensive post-processing of the .dng's. Have had my M10M since early Feb and was quickly able to settle on a methodology that is certainly not time-consuming (patience is not one of my strong points...). On the camera I usually have exp comp set to -0.3, sometimes -0.7. Import into LR Classic and click on 'Auto' at which LR applies a custom tone curve, then go into the Development panel for a play with the sliders. Sometimes I might reduce contrast then boost clarity depending on the subject. Rarely use the dehaze slider. Example dev panel and result below. On my Flickr page is my M10M album with over 250 photos covering a wide variety of subjects and conditions. All in all I thoroughly enjoy the camera and results - such that my M7 and 503CX have lain unused since it arrived.

Example taken with 21mm Super Elmar-M f3.4 + orange filter.
View attachment 176854View attachment 176856

And your work is stunning. Really lovely, and inspiring. The M10M looks like medium format in these - quite discernably. Oddly, find it hard to get that look from the MM1, except in particular light. It may be the DR of the M10M is just pulling in the ends of spectrum.