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Thread: M10 Monochrome

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    Senior Member msadat's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    I have converted two a7rii to bw, really nice
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Not since I dumped my M gear for a superior Sony iv especially with the Voigtlander APO 50 if one wants manual focus lenses. AF on the iv is impeccable and not available on the M. Sold my Q2 as I found myself almost always cropping to 35 or 50mm and wasting much of the MP.

    I have owned every Leica Monochrom in multiples up to this one, but I can better spend $8300 on less expensive gear with perhaps better resolution and versatility. Keep in mind for street I mainly print only up to 17x22.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by msadat View Post
    I have converted two a7rii to bw, really nice
    Where did you get them converted and in which way?

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    Re: M10 Monochrome


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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Marvellous, thanks to the Sony users for their input.

    Anyone actually interested in the M10-M? Looks gloriously inferior to me, going to see if I can try one next week with luck, looking forward to it!

    Mat
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    Senior Member msadat's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Where did you get them converted and in which way?
    Monochrome imaging

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    I think you'd have to have a few loose screws to pay that absurd price
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    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I think you'd have to have a few loose screws to pay that absurd price
    Now, now, Doug. Plenty of wealthy Leica fans out there...it will probably sell out first run.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    The camera looks very interesting, the first M camera with a 40Mp sensor. I expect its output to be much more impressive than what we get from current 40-60Mp cameras (sharper, more details, better tonal quality). And all that in a highly portable setup.

    On the other hand, I like the post-processing possibilities that a color image offers when converting it to black & white.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    It looks like a nice addition to the line if that's one's thing and the disposable funds are there. I've always liked the idea of the Leica monochromes but not for $8300. Maybe it'll drive down prices of second hand typ 246's?

    Definitely agree that monochrome-converted Sonys are the better bang for the buck for sure. I just wish I liked the Sonys more. I had an A7R I converted to full-spectrum and had an A7RII for a little bit. Perfectly capable cameras but the user experience was not for me.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I bought the original MM with CCD chip and it paid for itself with one editorial shoot for a custom bike company down here





    I enjoyed shooting with it a lot - I was in the process of exiting shooting B&W and all the fussing around that goes with developing the film and scanning it etc..

    It was my go to carry around camera for a couple of years



    the chip got the dreaded rusted CCD disease- Leica replaced it for me in 6 weeks - same as for my M9.

    I got it back and used it for a while as happy snapper




    I may or may not spring for one of these Matt since I am currently Leica M - less, but I am tempted by the crazy idea of getting my original SL converted to B&W since I bought the SL2 as my preferred low res set up. The MM is a precursor to the next iteration of M - and I am hoping for an IBIS'd capable M11 - with regards to this of course I will test the new MM in due course - but I think 40Mp without Image stabilisation might be a problem for me.

    Pete
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Iíd love one to pair with the 24 Elmar, 35 Cron, and 50 APO-Cron. Itís not in the budget but itís certainly something Iíd like to have.
    Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Nice Pete, something definitely special about the 1st MM, that ccd sensor used within it's limitations produces beautiful shots.

    I've read quite a few people asking for IBIS, personally I don't get it, especially with high ISO being so good and the M quite easy to handhold at much lower speeds than I can hold a normal DSLR. I'd always prefer a faster shutter and higher ISO over a super low shutter speed, but I can see that some would want it. No idea how a range finder would work and I'm not even sure that an M should be anything other than what it is technology wise but I'm clearly no expert, that technology in their other evf based cameras I totally understand. I don't shoot longer than the 75 though, so maybe it's much harder to shoot longer lenses, I have no idea.

    I think it will be interesting to see the output from the new monochrome, I remember the hysteria surrounding the D800 when it was first announced, 36mp, hand held! No chance was the general chatter, it'll be a tripod camera only but that really wasn't the case at all, same really for the GFX 50s when that was announced with no IBIS, I could shoot that thing at way lower than I expected, but the high ISO was so good I'd even prefer an underexposed image over one where either I or the subject could move. In fact the only time I ever used any form of stabilisation was on a 200f2 on a D800, for some reason it was switched on to IS by accident, saw an amazing scene of a wild deer between foggy trees, swung the camera up, took a couple of shots before the IS had stabilised, totally ruined shots and the deer ran off, vowed never too use it again under any circumstance!

    Anyway, nice images, I hope you get chance to try one at least and see what you think. I have delivered 90% of the images I have taken in Iraq in B&W recently, it would easily pay for itself in a single trip.

    Mat

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Heck, yeah!!!
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Not since I dumped my M gear for a superior Sony iv especially with the Voigtlander APO 50 if one wants manual focus lenses.

    I have owned every Leica Monochrom in multiples up to this one, but I can better spend $8300 on less expensive gear with perhaps better resolution and versatility. Keep in mind for street I mainly print only up to 17x22.
    Lou, Voigtlander? Tell me it isn't so? What happened to those Summicron 50 mm APOs you owned?

    17x22? Why would you need the Sony IV? You could print that "large" with a cell phone... an old cell phone.

    I believe the Conductress we know would scold you for these views.

    RickLeica

    ps I can't wait to get my M10M and put that LHSA 50mm on it!
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Iím tempted, but frankly if I had a choice between this and an SL Iíd pick the SL. I too have the first Monochrom. I love shooting with it. Certainly this is a big improvement, but I canít justify it.

    If I had unlimited resources Iíd get this and the a7r4.

    Dave
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    I confess Iím tempted. Iíve more than once had serious trouble with Leicaís slow-motion service department, so I fear this is a ĎLucy and the footballí trap and Iíll get nicked again. But Iím mostly just using Sony bodies with Leica lenses and printing BW.

    Stop me before I trade in a bunch of gear and end up with this,

    Kirk
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Dante has widened his coverage. Not just medium format anymore
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Ordered mine this morning from B&H. I sold my 246 last week in anticipation of an M10M. I have a color M10, which I'll be keeping in addition to this and my X1D II system. I'm really excited for the M10M, I really enjoyed the 246

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Dante has widened his coverage. Not just medium format anymore
    I donít understand the surprise about the price. It is cheaper than the color version (M10P, 24Mp) and has a rarer sensor (few people buy monochrome)

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Nice Pete, something definitely special about the 1st MM, that ccd sensor used within it's limitations produces beautiful shots.

    I've read quite a few people asking for IBIS, personally I don't get it, especially with high ISO being so good and the M quite easy to handhold at much lower speeds than I can hold a normal DSLR. I'd always prefer a faster shutter and higher ISO over a super low shutter speed, but I can see that some would want it. No idea how a range finder would work and I'm not even sure that an M should be anything other than what it is technology wise but I'm clearly no expert, that technology in their other evf based cameras I totally understand. I don't shoot longer than the 75 though, so maybe it's much harder to shoot longer lenses, I have no idea.

    I think it will be interesting to see the output from the new monochrome, I remember the hysteria surrounding the D800 when it was first announced, 36mp, hand held! No chance was the general chatter, it'll be a tripod camera only but that really wasn't the case at all, same really for the GFX 50s when that was announced with no IBIS, I could shoot that thing at way lower than I expected, but the high ISO was so good I'd even prefer an underexposed image over one where either I or the subject could move. In fact the only time I ever used any form of stabilisation was on a 200f2 on a D800, for some reason it was switched on to IS by accident, saw an amazing scene of a wild deer between foggy trees, swung the camera up, took a couple of shots before the IS had stabilised, totally ruined shots and the deer ran off, vowed never too use it again under any circumstance!

    Anyway, nice images, I hope you get chance to try one at least and see what you think. I have delivered 90% of the images I have taken in Iraq in B&W recently, it would easily pay for itself in a single trip.

    Mat

    B&W is what should be used unless colour is the subject - I find this meme to be a very helpful guide for my shooting. This is why a monochrome only camera makes sense. These days though the through the viewfinder experience can be achieved IN B&W via the magic of EVF - probably the biggest reason I have exited optical viewfinder cameras- I like to see and compose what I am shooting as close to what I will be printing. So the Fuji GFX is about being able to shoot in XPan ratio ( or close to reue cinematic aspect) AND see it in B&W - the SL/SL2 from Leica allows B&W viewing in 3:1 ratio.

    I liked the MM mono for the same reasons I liked the M8/M9 - the ccd chips render differently at both ends of the tone curve. To get the sparkle you need fat light for these chips. I don't think there is any great advantage to buying a mono these days since MP count from CMOS chips now eliminates the resolving advantage that a 'colourless' filter array delivered back then. The need for lots fat light to get the most out of these chips also saw the necessity to use a range of NF filters in front of fast Leica glass to use it wide open as base ISO' back then were higher. I don't need to have an argument with anyone re DR of CMOS V CCD wither - the only thing that really matters to me) with B&W is the look of near black and near white and maximising mid range contrast via using the resolving power of the matched Leica lenses - it takes a lot of PP on top of careful exposure technique to get anywhere near what the MM can deliver straight out of the camera.

    Re IBIS ( like autofocus) it has its upside and downside I guess much like anything else - but my hand steadiness is not what it used to be, just as my eyesight has deteriorated over time so speaking just for myself and knowing what I can and can't do easily - the days of using a rangefinder 'easily' to nail wide open fast glass are probably over .... I doubt that my hit rate will be as high using an M with 40+ megapixels versus the IBIS enabled SL2 or GFX100 - for younger shooters these issues aren't a consideration - I used to be one of those too.

    Fuji have it all over other manufacturers with their film simulations and ability to profile these in camera as well - I think this is a real differentiating factor - the out of the box ACROSS simulation with proper exposure - goes a long way to reduce PP work.

    Its nice that Leica offer up differentiated product - I know for a fact that there is a lot of pressure on FUJI to bring out their own monochrom - don't understand why more manufacturers don't offer the option.

    Cheers
    Pete
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    - [I] don't understand why more manufacturers don't offer the option.

    Cheers
    Pete
    I've often had the same thought. I give Leica alot of credit for continuing the development of the M Monochrom. The M10 Monochrom looks like a significant advancement in many respects.

    The original Leica Monochrom got me hooked on the idea of someday having a monochrome sensor camera. Ultimately, I chose a less expensive mirrorless monochrome conversion alternative (a Sony A7 converted by Daniel Morrison of Monochromeimaging.com) and I've been very happy with the camera and the images it produces.

    Although I have several 35mm and medium format rangefinder film cameras and two Leica M digital cameras, I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that a rangefinder is just not my first choice for the shooting experience. Rather than the M10 Monochrom, the Leica monochrome camera that would really interest me is a SL2 Monochrom.

    With the M Monochrom and a SL Monochrom Leica would have a killer combination.

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 17th January 2020 at 21:13.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Great to hear there's some interest in it from people, Leica are doing something special whilst maintaining the original M ethos in my opinion. I'd love to see more manufacturers producing monochrome sensors, not because it's ever going to be super popular or even understood by many, but purely because the world is a better place for having companies push in different areas and step outside the mainstream, long may Leica continue doing things differently.

    I hear you Pete on age being the limiting factor on some kit, I am rapidly approaching my 50's and feel the difference every day, but I think Leica are right to offer alternatives with all of the bells and whistles, they'd be wrong I think to change the M to cater for people who might find it harder to hand hold or focus with the M, it's just a fact of life, it would be a shame for all those annoyingly young, creative types not to experience the M as it always has been for the sake of us older guys.

    I agree that a SL-M and even a Q2-M would be awesome to see, neither I'd buy but would be cool to know they are out there.

    I'm probably going to get a flight over to Germany next week, check out the monochrome and also they will check over all your lenses and align them perfectly with your camera whilst you have a look around, will take the M10-P and just make sure everything is perfect, my 50 lux front focusses a little so they have agreed to sort that out.

    Anyone else fancy a trip to Wetzlar next week??

    Mat
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Dante recommends reading this. Iíve started sticking my post-itís on gear too

    https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/...m10-monochrom/
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    That's a great article Graham, nice to read someone genuinely excited about a camera and what it can do!

    Mat
    http://matrichardson.com/
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    Senior Member dave.gt's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Jeez, IBIS/more bells/more wishes/ more... ??? Everyone is different I suppose.

    I can't even afford a beaten up M8. Or a lens. But for the first time ever, I would absolutely buy an M10 or an M10 monochrome hands down over any other product in the market if I could afford it. Period.

    Size, weight, IBIS, gadzillion megapixels, AF, and all the rest mean nothing to me.
    If I can't make good images with any camera on the market today, it ain't gonna be the fault of the camera because it lacks features, it would be me. For the typical use and end product that the M cameras are designed for, the M10 and its variants, suit me like a glove.

    Mat, I look forward to seeing how you like the results of the new Monochrome camera.

    In the meantime, I will carry on with the equipment I am using now, and maybe I will eventually master it in my lifetime. Not a chance, LOL...
    Dave (GT)
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    Senior Member dave.gt's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Ugh... thanks for that link, Graham!!! I think...

    Great article, but now it puts more stress on me to find a paying job in addition to my current 24/7 responsibilities. Dante... again.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Dante recommends reading this. Iíve started sticking my post-itís on gear too

    https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/...m10-monochrom/
    Oh look, a cardinal! So rare to see that bird around here.

    How about them Dodgers...

    LA, LA, LA, LA, I can't hear you....

    I doubt I will see a Leica in my future (at least owned by me), but I am really glad they are pursuing the monochrom line. Now, if it included a removable filter to convert it into a full spectrum camera, that would almost be too much of a temptation (although the rangefinder focus might be a bit tricky). Still, hats off to those companies pursuing camera design outside the mainstream.
    Will

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Great to hear there's some interest in it from people, Leica are doing something special whilst maintaining the original M ethos in my opinion. I'd love to see more manufacturers producing monochrome sensors, not because it's ever going to be super popular or even understood by many, but purely because the world is a better place for having companies push in different areas and step outside the mainstream, long may Leica continue doing things differently.
    This was the biggest loss to photography in the film to digital transition. Just look at the variation in film camera design in terms of camera type and format aspect ratio. We are not going to see camera like TLRs, X-Pan/TX-1 panoramic rangefinder, Bronica RF645 with a vertical frame orientation, and swing-lens panoramic cameras. The square is dead as well. I don't have to want it, but the richness of the available tools to photographers is important for the art.

    And it is not like digital has not added to photography. There are things I can do with digital cameras that were really hard in film. I love that I can make seamless panoramas from multiple frames and have so much control over color. But it also limited camera design because of costs.
    Will

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    Lou, Voigtlander? Tell me it isn't so? What happened to those Summicron 50 mm APOs you owned?

    17x22? Why would you need the Sony IV? You could print that "large" with a cell phone... an old cell phone.

    I believe the Conductress we know would scold you for these views.

    RickLeica

    ps I can't wait to get my M10M and put that LHSA 50mm on it!
    Hello Rick

    Yes it's true. I will have some images to share on the Voigtlander APO 50/2.0 thread aptly named once back from a few days in Miami with another Leica Fanboy.

    Did you see the FM comparisons post on p27 post #3, Leica APO 50 and Voigtlander APO 50, but on the A7R3 not the uber A7R4?

    Very interesting to say the least.

    Will you still talk to me?
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    Member Dante Alighieri's Avatar
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    All true denizens of Dante's Inferno already know: this camera is indeed Dante Approved.

    The Leica M10 Monochrome is the perfect complement to a nice medium format digital kit.

    --Dante
    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."

    Coming soon: "The Devil's Workshop"---Medium Format Digital Photography Workshops
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Hello Rick

    Yes it's true. I will have some images to share on the Voigtlander APO 50/2.0 thread aptly named once back from a few days in Miami with another Leica Fanboy.

    Did you see the FM comparisons post on p27 post #3, Leica APO 50 and Voigtlander APO 50, but on the A7R3 not the uber A7R4?

    Very interesting to say the least.

    Will you still talk to me?
    Ha!

    Of course, I'll still talk to you. You are my favorite photographer and gear junkie. You always race towards the new gear fire and embrace the present. We know life is short and every new camera/lens/PP technology is not better or worse, but rather something to be explored before our time is up.

    I'll go look at FM and see what you are referencing. The Voigtlander APO 50 certainly is an interesting lens.

    Your friend,

    Soggy Rick.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I don’t understand the surprise about the price. It is cheaper than the color version (M10P, 24Mp) and has a rarer sensor (few people buy monochrome)
    Not in my local, M10-P sells for 7.690 euro, M10 Monochrom is 8.340 euro. The real reason why I don't understand the surprise about the price is that, well, it's a Leica. Contrarily to any other manufacturer, Leica generally increases their price with any iteration (or simply because one year went by, even if nothing has changed with the product). Only notably exception the SL, which went down in price during its lifetime, a sign - IMHO - of a serious scare Leica had with the system's ability to compete. Therefore, it was just to be expected that the M10 Monochrom would cost more than the M10-P, and way more than the previous iteration (M246).

    I would not consider new cameras as investments other than investments in my own work, so not investments in the sense that you buy and sell for a profit. Used Leica lenses might be, and most often are, and used film Leica cameras (even the non-exotic, non-collector variations) might be.

    On another note, it is a different thing, I know, but it's worth considering that a well-loved film M would run you around 1.200 (M2/M3) to 2.000 euro (M6/M7) to 2.500 (MP), and you could buy and process about 4-500 films with the rest of the money (color & BW), giving you about 15-18.000 shots. When you sell it, it would definitely have retained its value, and very likely increased it, whereas the M10 Monochrom won't. Of course, you'd have to go through the hassle (or joy, if you enjoy that) of processing your own B&W film, and of course if you plan on shooting more than 18.000 frames then you are ahead financially by getting the M10 Monochrom

    Best regards,

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Smile Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    Ha!

    Of course, I'll still talk to you. You are my favorite photographer and gear junkie. You always race towards the new gear fire and embrace the present. We know life is short and every new camera/lens/PP technology is not better or worse, but rather something to be explored before our time is up.

    I'll go look at FM and see what you are referencing. The Voigtlander APO 50 certainly is an interesting lens.

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    I think you may be going too easy on Lou ...

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Auni View Post
    We know life is short and every new camera/lens/PP technology is not better or worse, but rather something to be explored before our time is up.

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Looks like a fine piece to me, although it's not the direction I've been going with my cameras and photography. Possibly at some point in the future, but likely the future past 2020 at least.

    Yes, if I really wanted/needed one, I'd pay the "absurd" price. It looks like it easily blows competitors out of the competition and particularly with my Leica lenses. Why is it a given that whenever Leica announces a new, high end, limited edition camera with a premium price it is always dissed on price, even by people who have three to five times that money in other equipment? Makes no sense to me. No matter how satisfying that other equipment might be, it isn't at the same level as what Leica is doing. I don't need two or three modified Sony cameras to do what the M10M does out of the box, and in five years the M10M will still be worth a much greater fraction of the initial absurd price than three modified Sony cameras on resale.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    No matter how satisfying that other equipment might be, it isn't at the same level as what Leica is doing. I don't need two or three modified Sony cameras to do what the M10M does out of the box, and in five years the M10M will still be worth a much greater fraction of the initial absurd price than three modified Sony cameras on resale.
    Why would you need two or three modified Sony's in lieu of one M10M? Wouldn't one modified Sony do?
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Why would you need two or three modified Sony's in lieu of one M10M? Wouldn't one modified Sony do?
    Agree, you only need one and it will cost less than this camera will depreciate in value the next 4-6 years so you can throw it away and not have to deal with selling it and still come out ahead economically.

    But I agree with Godfrey's other part, I think buying these type of Leica's is not about economics, it's about buying a pristine piece of kit that can do things no other camera can do. Wether you're willing to pay the price for that is up to every individual to decide. I have as much respect for people who are willing to pay the price and show us the results here as for people who don't want or can't pay the price and show us good work with different (lower cost?) cameras. To each their own and I see no reason to diss the buyers or the non-buyers.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Rick

    I think you may be going too easy on Lou ...

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Another thread derailed by Sony conversation....
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Agree, you only need one and it will cost less than this camera will depreciate in value the next 4-6 years so you can throw it away and not have to deal with selling it and still come out ahead economically.
    But you have to consider the business plan that supports the purchase. What can you expect to get for a shoot? If you are doing high-end work, the investment may be worth it in terms of the business plan.

    If you are simply a hobbyist, then the economics are irrelevant beyond that you have the disposable income to afford it. Then it is simply the indirect value in the pleasure you may have from using a particular camera. I don't recommend buying cameras as an investment for future returns on its value. Stock will be better.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Agree, you only need one and it will cost less than this camera will depreciate in value the next 4-6 years so you can throw it away and not have to deal with selling it and still come out ahead economically.

    But I agree with Godfrey's other part, I think buying these type of Leica's is not about economics, it's about buying a pristine piece of kit that can do things no other camera can do. Wether you're willing to pay the price for that is up to every individual to decide. I have as much respect for people who are willing to pay the price and show us the results here as for people who don't want or can't pay the price and show us good work with different (lower cost?) cameras. To each their own and I see no reason to diss the buyers or the non-buyers.
    Do you think that converted cameras actually produce monochrom files?

    This is just ONE factor I am considering before having my SL converted to monochrom ( which I now wont) - a process which also removes the micro lens array so using M lenses (in particular ) becomes less than ideal. THEN I have to put up with a two stage file conversion with intermediary software between file and CI /LR/PS...

    not so simple as people think,....
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Another thread derailed by Sony conversation....
    Sony exceptionalism and Leica hatred are an irresistible combination. Not the only one, sadly. Look what happened to the thread where the OP asked how best to configure a Mac Pro.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Sony exceptionalism and Leica hatred are an irresistible combination. Not the only one, sadly. Look what happened to the thread where the OP asked how best to configure a Mac Pro.
    What about the Nikon guys? Do they get a pass? I think they were the ones hurling the insults... If we are being honest, itís not like there havenít been SOME Leica owners that have hurled insults to the effect of Leica exceptionalism coupled with Sony hatred. The point isnít to inflame but to point out that a lot of fanboys exist on all sides and sometimes people are overly defensive which can lead to a misunderstanding. Itís the internet afterall... just saying. There are great people that use all brands of cameras and crappy ones too. I try to engage with the great ones which the vast majority of people here fall under IMO. Even when I may disagree with them. Everyone has a different personalized experience.

    I have disclosed that Iím primarily a FE and L-Mount shooter... I used to shoot M and I did say that Iíd love to own this version of the M Monochrom if it were in my budget. With Christmas and a new house Iím kind of out the camera adding game for a little bit right now but I donít think anyone needs to be tribal. I think itís the nature of a forum to discuss open ended questions (initially anyway) of why someone is or is not interested in a product. I donít believe it fully gets to troll level until the negative justification is continually reiterated within the same thread but I could be wrong.
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    I just think that the world is a better place with manufacturers like Leica in it. Sure, the monochrom is a niche camera but Iím glad that they fill it.

    Now the question is do I trade my M246 for one? I too think that a monochrom Q2 would be an awesome option in the future!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    If I have the money, this is a no-brainer decision for me. Of course I will get the M10M...

    Too bad I don't have the money, ha ha.

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Another thread derailed by Sony conversation....

  49. #49
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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    But you have to consider the business plan that supports the purchase. What can you expect to get for a shoot? If you are doing high-end work, the investment may be worth it in terms of the business plan.

    If you are simply a hobbyist, then the economics are irrelevant beyond that you have the disposable income to afford it. Then it is simply the indirect value in the pleasure you may have from using a particular camera. I don't recommend buying cameras as an investment for future returns on its value. Stock will be better.
    I was replying to Godfrey, who now is a hobbyist like me. So I think for neither of us a business plan is needed

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    Re: M10 Monochrome

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Do you think that converted cameras actually produce monochrom files?
    Why do you think I used these words:
    "I think buying these type of Leica's is not about economics, it's about buying a pristine piece of kit that can do things no other camera can do.
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