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Thread: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

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    So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    Howdo all,

    A largely academic question...

    I've read on this site and elsewhere on the interweb that owners of both the Leica S 006 and 007 percieve a difference in the images produced by the respective CCD sensor and CMOS sensor. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find any objective definition of that difference beyond 'CMOS looks generic' and 'CCD looks different'. Both have their supporters.

    All other things being equal within the system, is anyone able to explain that difference?

    I'm guessing any difference could be applied to any CCD and CMOS comparison rather than the difference being specific to the Leica sensors, but I stand to be enlightened.


    Cheers,
    Duff

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    IMHO, *almost* every look of a camera or sensor is determined by the default profiles in whatever RAW converter is used. The S(006) and S(007) files look a bit different out of the box in a default Adobe rendering. Does that mean the sensors are different? How hard is it to make one look indistinguishable (for practical purposes) from the other?

    I'm not saying that this shows there is no difference. The default view informs your vision and, in my case, influences where the processing of the image goes. But if you cycle through the included profiles in, say Lightroom, you'll see many different looks for the image. Which is real?

    I shoot differently with the two bodies. Because the 006 has no live view, I don't obsess about focus, and so take better pictures. Is that my fault or the S(007)'s? I's say mine.

    As always, try any camera first if you can.

    --Matt
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duff photographer View Post
    Howdo all,

    A largely academic question...

    I've read on this site and elsewhere on the interweb that owners of both the Leica S 006 and 007 perceive a difference in the images produced by the respective CCD sensor and CMOS sensor. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find any objective definition of that difference beyond 'CMOS looks generic' and 'CCD looks different'. Both have their supporters.

    All other things being equal within the system, is anyone able to explain that difference?

    I'm guessing any difference could be applied to any CCD and CMOS comparison rather than the difference being specific to the Leica sensors, but I stand to be enlightened.


    Cheers,
    Duff
    There is no difference in an absolute sense, which is why you cannot find anything. The only difference I can think of that might be attributed to any difference, beyond confirmation bias, is that CCDs have less dynamic range and so profiles associated with the images have more contrast. But once you account for that, there is no perceptual difference.

    BTW, I use the Pentax 645D which basically has the same sensor as the Leica. The only difference is the aspect ratio. However, if given a choice, I would opt for a CMOS, partly because if you have a dead pixel, it only effects the pixel, not the row. The skill of the photographer will have a greater impact on your image than the perceived difference in sensor technology.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    Thanks Matt and Will.

    What you both say makes common sense.

    While I said it was an academic question, I may start to look at some second-hand gear at some later stage. Recent events have necessitated a review of my camera gear and the need to slim it down.

    Thank you both as always.

    Cheers,
    Duff

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    To understand the differences in CCD(006) and CMOS (007) go to Reddotforum.com and read David Farkas comparison . David is an absolute wizard growing up in a family owned color processing lab. He can make it difficult to see the differences that are clearly there .

    I have both cameras .

    The 006 is clearly superior for skin tones and produces a somewhat narrow dynamic range ..similar to Kodachrome . It excels at images that have important highlights and deep blacks . If you shoot primarily portraits or are looking for a fine art aesthetic ...I know of no camera has a better rendering . This is the m9 sensor in a larger size .

    Its limitations are that it has poor high ISO performance and I mean above ISO 400 ..you can use 800 with care but 1600 will lose important detail to noise . It also does not have Live View which is very useful for landscape work .

    The 007 has aa modern CMOS sensor with excellent dynamic range and superb color rendering . It supports Live View and I would strongly recommend it for landscape . The pixels are larger 6um than most MF and the 40MP less . It is terrific unless you want to print really large . It has excellent high ISO performance up through 1600. This is similar to the M240 sensor .

    The 006 does get the sensor corrosion issue same as the M9 ....so look for a replaced sensor if you go for a 006 or at least check it out .

    The trade in values Leica has against a S3 are $2K for a 006 and $4k for a 007 .....so you can assume fair market value is probably $3K and $6k . Expect at these prices to never have the camera serviced . The cost of repairs would exceed replacement cost . Leica will eventually refurbish the trade ins and offer the 006 and 007 as certified used cameras .

    Both cameras are really all about getting the MF aesthetic in a beautiful ,durable and weather proof package . The range of lenses is superb and readily available used . The SL2 is a much better system in every aspect EXCEPT it doesn t have the MF look (and of course leaf shutters ). .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    To understand the differences in CCD(006) and CMOS (007) go to Reddotforum.com and read David Farkas comparison... ...The SL2 is a much better system in every aspect EXCEPT it doesn t have the MF look (and of course leaf shutters ). .

    Thanks for the advice Roger. I have a tendency to do research for a couple of years before committing to any 'new' equipment (in the case of Leica, make that 10 years)

    A 006 with replacement CCD (of the more recent build) seems to be the way to go at the moment. Although if a 007 came along at the right price...

    Having had a Contax 645 back in the film days, the logistics and 'limitations' of a 006 will be no worse, while image quality will be improved, so either 006 or 007 will be an improvement, and certainly one over my Nikon D300 which has even more limitations.

    A couple of lenses need to be sold first.

    Cheers,
    Duff

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    Senior Member dave.gt's Avatar
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    Re: So, what IS the difference between a Leica S 006 CCD and 007 CMOS sensor?

    Hi, Duff!

    I suspect that you will find the difference will be between the ears of the photographer. Life is too short. Just do it!

    You're welcome, Dante.
    Dave (GT)
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