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Thread: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    I have a pretty good rant about the poor Leica service in going thru NJ on the LUF....But that doesn t solve the problems. I am looking for experience for US based customers with alternatives...(1) anybody sending their stuff directly to Germany....(2) similar question for using Kinderman in canada and (3) going to DAG for other than warrenty work.

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Hi Glen,

    I read the rant ... ouch. I'd be tee'd off also. Interestingly enough, I've never gotten around to sending my 35lux, noct, 75lux and 90cron in for coding because the thought of being without them for an extended length of time is troublesome. While not necessary, I'd like to have the coding applied anyway, but the stories of mix-ups seem to have become more prevalent as Leica service struggles with it's workload of codings and focus adjustments in the digital age.

    Kurt

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Kurt My name is Roger Dunham...but my handle is [email protected] t want to change it from the form. I use your DMR . Volume isn t the issue ...it lack of effective processes and appropriate controls. Before I started to spend all my time #$%%^ with the M8s I was a Partner in a very large consulting firm and I specialized in process design and performance management. Most of the service issues could be resolved with non technical resources and some simple checks and balances. Having a competent service writer itemize the work to be performed and requiring the technician to initial each item as complete..would eliminate many of the problems. Just using the tracking system Leica has in Solms worldwide would keep the status accurate and eliminate all the unnecessary phone calls and emails . Leica charges enough for these repairs to get at least the process right. This to me is quite different than the issue of inadequate technical resources...I can understand taking months to get the few technicians competent to work on a Noctilux available ....you would think that someone would be smart enough to clean the lens before its sent back ..maybe an apprentise could be used . These are easy things that could eliminate totally unnecessary costs to Leica . Sorry for the rant ...really want the alternative sources ..as I use the M8s everyday and don t want to be without them for months .

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    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Roger:

    I don't think the service gets much better than Kindermann. They are also a Leica warranty depot.

    Kindermann is very quick. I sent my Noctilux to them and it only took about a week to get it adjusted. It came back clean and very smooth focusing.

    Robert

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    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Hi Glen,

    I read the rant ... ouch. I'd be tee'd off also. Interestingly enough, I've never gotten around to sending my 35lux, noct, 75lux and 90cron in for coding because the thought of being without them for an extended length of time is troublesome. While not necessary, I'd like to have the coding applied anyway, but the stories of mix-ups seem to have become more prevalent as Leica service struggles with it's workload of codings and focus adjustments in the digital age.

    Kurt
    Kurt:

    I would look into having Kindermann do it for you. You could probably have Kindermann remove the existing mounts, ship them to JLM for coding and then put them back on. They could also make sure they are set up to focus properly and do a CLA on any lenses that need it. I bet it would only take a couple of weeks to get done. On the Noctilux, 75mm, and 90mm, the lens mounts seem to be fine tuned to the lens and Leica putting on a new coded mount may not ensure good focus. If the lenses are focusing well, it may be better to code the existing mount.

    What I noticed on my Noctilux and my 90mm APO Summicron, both Canadian made, was that the back of the lens mounts seemed to have been indivdually fine tuned with perhaps some lapping compound. On my other lenses, the back of the lens mount was still chrome, not brass. It looks like these Canadian made lenses may have been fine tuned by adjusting the mounting ring thickness, or there was a series of mount thickness to mate with the lenses to fine tune the focus.

    Robert

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Roger,

    Sorry about the name mix-up. I hadn't had my morning dose of caffeine when I wrote it. I certainly remember that you generously found a home for my DMR and big lenses. You need to post a few images so I can see what you've been able to capture with all of the wildlife that I believe you mentioned is right in your back yard.

    I still look back at the colors and image quality I was getting with the DMR and am amazed at how good the files look. I'll be at the front of the line waiting for a digital R10. Meanwhile, I have to start picking up a few of my favorite R lenses again in the near future to avoid the rise in prices that will occur as we get to summer of next year and rumors begin to swell.

    But, back to inadequate service. Besides process upgrades, it makes me wonder if Leica has made the conscious decision not to increase administrative and personnel costs, thinking that the initial wave of service requests for lens codings would spike and then level-off. The number of cameras they have sold plus the added volume of lenses coming back for focus adjustments may be other likely unanticipated inputs that haven't been factored into the upgraded service equation. No matter the excuses, however, the quality control issue for repair services must be addressed. On the flip side, imagine how far repairing the repair issues might go in further elevating the Leica name.

    Robert, thanks for the information, I'll have to investigate that a little bit further.

    Kurt

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Rob I have read your experiences with Kinderman..with great envy ! I almost sent the lenses to them but was put off by the concerns over customs issues. You are absolutely right about the mounts ..I know on the Summiluxes they were trying to use the original mounts and that the lenses frequently require shims to calibrate the focus point. If I understood the feedback on the 75 they could not get the original mount off so its in Solms. I was surprised about the Noctilux which I would expect is the most difficult..the lens waited in NJ for almost 3 months for a new mount. Then of course they forgot to put it on before they calibrated the lens. If anyone has experience in sending lenses from the US to Kinderman ..I could use some help. Can Kinderman do 6 bit coding or do they send the lens to NJ? Roger

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Kurt My experience with smaller companies is that they manage costs and head count by just saying no to increases. A competent management team would look at both the efficient use of technical resources as well as the revenue potential. If I told you my Noctilux came back looking like new and functioning perfectly and that you could schedule an appointment ..say next month with a 2 week turn around (baring complications) I bet your lenses would be in the mail. On a positive note I am having a great time using both the M8 and the DMR.....you might have seen my thread on street shooting with peter turnley...14 days in prague and budapest 3000 images with the M8 ..my first 100% black and white portfolio. I am currently working on a portfolio on Kite Boarders ..so I hang at the beach down here in Jupiter FL. It is really hard to manually focus the 400 on a moving Kite Boarder....predictive focus goes with the wind. I am going to get some stuff out tomorrow.

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    Workshop Member James's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Please try the following...
    http://www.lhsa.org/repair.html
    Not an endorsement, just alternatives... Thanks... Jim

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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    If anyone has experience in sending lenses from the US to Kinderman ..I could use some help. Can Kinderman do 6 bit coding or do they send the lens to NJ? Roger
    Kindermann can't do the 6-bit coding. Leica would only sell them the mounts if they bought a new set of test equipment for checking the lenses. I forget how much the equipment was, but it was in the tens of thousands of dollars, maybe as much as fifty. Kindermann was a Leica distributor at one point and already have all the Leica factory tools for the M and R, including R9, so I figure they could fit a mount properly.

    A call to Kindermann could probably answer your questions about duty. I haven't heard it to be a problem for others in the USA that have used them.

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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Please try the following...
    http://www.lhsa.org/repair.html
    Not an endorsement, just alternatives... Thanks... Jim
    Good stuff Jim and thanks for posting for all of us to see.

    Best

    Woody

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Please try the following...
    http://www.lhsa.org/repair.html
    Not an endorsement, just alternatives... Thanks... Jim
    jim Thanks all the known experts with contact numbers ...note to self next time use this list. Roger

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    ARRRRGH
    Roger, I read your post just the day after I sent one body and a couple of lenses in to NJ.
    I am asking them to code a 90/2 pre-asph, to tweak the M8's rangefinder as required after my home tweaking with the 2mm wrench, and to look at a 35/1.4 which has never been quite right.
    I am keeping my fingers crossed.
    -bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Please try the following...
    http://www.lhsa.org/repair.html
    Not an endorsement, just alternatives... Thanks... Jim
    Jim keep that handy for me for when we do the link page. thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by rwfreund View Post
    ARRRRGH
    Roger, I read your post just the day after I sent one body and a couple of lenses in to NJ.
    I am asking them to code a 90/2 pre-asph, to tweak the M8's rangefinder as required after my home tweaking with the 2mm wrench, and to look at a 35/1.4 which has never been quite right.
    I am keeping my fingers crossed.
    -bob
    You may be fine.. at least they have your entire system. I think I had a lot of things working against me . (2 cameras,a dozen lenses ..and all the tough ones noctilux , all three summiluxes). When you ask for 6 bit and anything else ...it causes them problems. The 6 bit seems to be set up as a work station ...take off the old mount, put on a new one and a quick check (maybe ) and its done . When they do anything else they should get the 6 bit first then do everthing else like a normal calibration or CLA . Some of my lenses seemed to get one or the other..CLA no 6 bit or 6 bit and still backfocuses) . What I worry about is will they really calibrate the camera and the lenses to work interchangably. My guess is that they will try to adjust the M8 to work with your 35 summilux...and then try the 90 . Rather than calibrating the M8 to standard..then calibrating the lenses and then testing the system. The testing processes and equipment haven t caught up with the requirements. I believe thats why so many are trying to hit a moving target. I also think Rob had some excellent points about the Noctilux and starting with achievable expectations...testing wideopen and at the closest distance may not be reasonable . Let us know if you learn anything about the process . Best of luck. Roger

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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Roger,
    Sorry to hear of your troubles, hope you get them resolved. You may remember me as your neighbor in Jupiter. Let's take those long lenses and DMR's to the beach together some day.

    David

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Service Solutions(other than NJ)

    Good idea .I am doing a self directed portfolio on "The Kite Boarders" that hang out at Kite Beach..about half way between the pier and the inlet...so I am there almost any afternoon when the wind is high enough for them to fly. If you are going to be around would enjoy some coffee and some advice on the best locations to shoot. My number is 561 799 3351 ..email is [email protected]. I am shooting about 80% with my M8 s but I still think the DMR produces better files..that debate I will save ..LOL Roger

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