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Thread: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

  1. #51
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Can I be lazy and ask if this is a problem that just affects the M8 annd lenses or is it a general digital thing.Shouldnt leica fix all these things for free?I mean to say,Cam,youve almost got me crying into the keyboard,what drama;glad its all ok now..............Neil.
    I am one of those that has never encountered any of these issues either with digital or film... Noctilux, 35 lux, 75 lux have all been great for me... BTW, I am the original owner of Cam's 35 lux and shot it a lot with amazing results... Maybe the fact that I shoot wide open most of the time has something to do with it.

    Cheers,

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    Senior Member Scargos2's Avatar
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    With all your talk. you folks are driving me crazy. I want one, a 35 Lux. But money is tight. Tomorrow hopefully I will get a rental deposit on my warehouse, so I can start looking for a 35 Lux. Being retired and with SS payments , Leica can be tough for me at times. Having owned a M8 for a month. I have the BUG.
    Hoping for the best.
    Sunny Florida Rick of Fla

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Quote Originally Posted by Riccis View Post
    I am one of those that has never encountered any of these issues either with digital or film... Noctilux, 35 lux, 75 lux have all been great for me... BTW, I am the original owner of Cam's 35 lux and shot it a lot with amazing results... Maybe the fact that I shoot wide open most of the time has something to do with it.
    Riccis -- i know neither you nor the owner after had any issues with the lens, and he packed it cradled like a baby. for *my* body it was off, however, even wide open which is why i had it tweaked. it is now more gorgeous than anything i could ever have dreamed!

    i got to play with the new 21 and 24 Lux today and you know what? for what i do, for what i shoot, i wasn't that depressed that i couldn't afford either. are they amazing? yes! would i buy one if i could afford it? another, yes! but what really got me chuffed was the lens i kept on oohing and ahing about was then lens i already owned -- the (yours) 35 Lux Asph.

    how great is that?

    as for my poor Nocti -- it's from 1975 (pre-production), an E58, and was used by a comet photographer, so you can imagine what it was probably attached to at one time. it worked beautifully on my Epson when it front focused so i imagine it will be cherry when recalibrated by Solms (for which i was lucky enough to get the proper contact). i loved it at all apertures when my body was off and imagine i will be over the moon when i get it to work again with what i have.

    eta: Riccis, after initially think the 24 would be the one i'd lust for -- i have to say that the 21 thrilled me more. (as an aside, the new 18 was fantastic!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scargos2 View Post
    With all your talk. you folks are driving me crazy. I want one, a 35 Lux. But money is tight. Tomorrow hopefully I will get a rental deposit on my warehouse, so I can start looking for a 35 Lux. Being retired and with SS payments , Leica can be tough for me at times. Having owned a M8 for a month. I have the BUG.
    Hoping for the best.
    it is a bug worth having and if the 35 suits you (50mm equivalent) i truly think there's nothing better. i believe one of our Super Moderator's here, Bob. might still have a mint one for sale. it will save you $$$ and there's very few people that i would rather have a lens from.
    Last edited by cam; 29th May 2009 at 21:34.

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Cam, can you let me know a little bit more about the photo fair you mentioned on June 6th and 7th. I'm making my first trip to Paris. It's for business, but have managed to squeeze in a few extra days (including those dates) to walk around lost and aimlessly (probably when I do my best shooting, anyway).

    Thanks much.

    Kurt

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Kurt,

    i went to look up the link for you and they postponed the fair for a week because of the European Elections! so sorry -- it was still the on for the 6/7 when i looked before i came to L.A.

    i've never been, but my boyfriend said i would think i died and went to heaven....

    P.S. sending you an e.

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    Senior Member Scargos2's Avatar
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    thanks Cam, for the info. I love Paris, been there twice, but not with a Leica.
    Sunny Florida Rick of Fla

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    no problem! anyone coming to Paris for the fair or otherwise, drop me a line.

    unlike when i'm in the States (where family rules), i might actually get to meet some on you. have some wine or coffee and go trolling together. it's always good fun!

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Can I be lazy and ask if this is a problem that just affects the M8 annd lenses or is it a general digital thing.Shouldnt leica fix all these things for free?
    I think focus tolerances are not affecting just Leica. Notice that the major DSLRs with autofocus now are starting to offer firmware for correcting for more precise focus on a lens by lens basis. Not for contrast detection AF, which focuses based on the actual image, but for phase detection AF as used in the best, fastest focusing equipment. Phase detection uses what amounts to a rangefinder with the width of the lens aperture as its baseline. And you can buy a nice self-calibrating focus target from Michael Tapes at rawworkflow.com to determine the settings that need to be fed into this firmware.

    The thing that is general and digital is that the pixel-peeping needed to be certain of focus issues was beyond most of us until digital came along.

    scott

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    can i be a spoiled brat here? when you were selling that flawless copy, i wanted to buy it. unfortunately, you were having some sort of family emergency and were unreachable.... i was in the states and had the chance to buy the pre-asph i now have. after trying both lenses, i preferred the Asph for various reasons (close focus and the ability to retain details better wide open). i was completed seduced by this article, knew i wanted a Lux -- but you were away for an unknown period.

    i did the proper thing and bought a lens i in arms reach, not knowing if your lens would be sold whilst i couldn't reach you. it was well-used and i plan to continue to do so on my R-D1. but that's how long i've wanted one, Woody. your lens was always a touchstone for me and i've frequently wondered what if. and now you tell me it's no more
    Hey Cam

    What I have written so far is (apparently) the bad news side of the story. Peter sent the (destroyed) lens back to Solms and they have completely rebuilt it to factory specs. Peter says the lens works as good as it did before the accident! Yea!! LOL

    Now that leads back to me. I have now acquired a second copy of a chrome silver version of the lens, along with my old Contax G1 hood and Titanium cover. All looks perfect, acts perfect, and meets my needs for the perfect focal length for the M8! Yea.....Yea!!! LOL Just so no one is confused, it has been documented that the focus shift issues associated with aluminum/black copies of this lens do not exist (or are at least minimized to the max!) with the Chrome Silver. My copy is a brass helicoid silver chromed version and I put the camera on a Gitzo 5541 (their most stable if I understand correctly) and took the same image after focusing with the lens at 1.4 and then successively shooting at 1 stop intervals without varying focus from the original. No sign of focus shift at all! So I am now a really happy camper!!

    At the same time I also got a new 28 Cron in Silver. Here the lens focus helicoid is actually the aluminum used for the black chrome editions but apparently Leica have learned to properly coat the aluminum with the Silver Chrome. There are only 500 copies of this lens that were made and I am sure we will start seeing this technology trickling down. In fact I would bet that the Leica UV/IR filters sourced from Hoya must be aluminum/silver chrome! Some one will figure that one out and let us know.

    I noticed a bit of focus shift from 1.4 to 16.0 but nothing truly significant. Not as precise as the brass/Silver Chrome but nearly so.

    Thankfully Leica seems to have solved an age old problem and all of us are better for it.

    I love my M's and don't see anything new in the 35 DSLR domain of interest for me and now I can wait for the S2 to see what that brings to the party.

    Thanks for listening.......hopefully there is some worthy information in all of these rants

    Woody

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Woody,

    pleased you got another and are happy!

    i still love my 35 Asph but truly wish i had the bucks to buy the first version Aspherical i got to try today. sigh. i only took a few shots (and nothing outstanding, mind you) but it was enough to see that it was what truly what i'd seen in other's photos -- the perfect 35!

    the only way i can describe it is if you can imagine the Nocti in 35mm, this is the lens....

    it really knocked my socks off, damn! only €4400

    in the meanwhile, i was shopping 90 Crons. whilst i love the look of older lenses, i have been drawn to the Asph here. tested out two, and i do think the titanium was better (but looked ridiculous on my black M8). i am starting to wonder if there is something to the materials and focus shift as you state above....

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    an addendum to my last heretical posting....

    spoke with the owner of the store that had the Ti Cron and it seems he owns one of those as well as the 35 Lux Asph and the last version of the Nocti f/1. he has chrome M's, mind you, but i do think it also goes back to the whole focus shift issue.

    he looked at my 75 Lux with distaste and asked how i liked it. my hackles were raised by that and it renewed my love for the lens. how dare he?

    now i do admit to checking out a an Emarit and a chrome FAT Tele (which was really quite sweet but too expensive at collector's prices), but i set about taking photos trying to figure if i really needed a 90mm....

    long story short: NO.

    do i still want one? well, of course, i'm a bit of a slut and the Cron Asph is a different beast altogether. but do i need? no....

    my 75 Lux focuses closer than any 90 (which really is important to me -- i swear i'd photograph up peoples noses if i could). the M8 is good enough (especially at low ISO's) to crop if i feel the need (though i admit to preferring to get the shot in camera) and the footprint of the Lux just can't be beat. it's plenty sharp to me and has the most gorgeous bokeh. it's a lens that constantly surprises me with its lusciousness.... and to have that extra stop? heaven!

    so although i was unfaithful in looking and lusting, the 75 Lux is still my honey.

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    If you will allow me to be blunt, if you don't like the optical performance of the 75/1.4 lux, you are not a photographer.

    If you don't like the price or the ergonomics, its size, its angle of view or whatever else, fine. If you like something else better, fine. But if you don't like the pictures it takes, honestly, you better figure out another hobby (and I say hobby, because you are probably not doing this for a living).
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    If you will allow me to be blunt, if you don't like the optical performance of the 75/1.4 lux, you are not a photographer.

    If you don't like the price or the ergonomics, its size, its angle of view or whatever else, fine. If you like something else better, fine. But if you don't like the pictures it takes, honestly, you better figure out another hobby (and I say hobby, because you are probably not doing this for a living).
    Stuart:

    Never forget two things; 1) this is art, and 2) there is no accounting for taste.

    Elvis

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Yes. I sounded like the exact kind of ***hole that I tend to hate in real life in that post, so I will have to temper my words. I think the 75/1.4 is an astonishingly good lens, and most people who actively dislike it either, 1. Have some reason other than its optical performance. or 2. Are the type less concerned with how a photo looks than with how a test chart looks. or 3. Are the type that likes to bash something they have not used and know nothing about.

    I have no problem with number 1, not much of a problem with 2 (whatever floats your boat), but I don't really like those who represent #3.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    CAM: I haven't gone back and traced all the various posts to this thread, I kind of short-cutted and simply read this page. But I say, Hallelujah! I can honestly say that the 75 lux is the sexiest lens Leica makes. (I know, I'm really asking for it with a generalization like that.) But I mean c'mon, what else even comes close? I'm not up on all the rare bits of glass that leica has made, nor have I ever owned anything that has "Noct" in the name. Nevertheless, I still feel confident in my choice.

    I think it might have something to do with the number "75". All those 35s and 50s are just so, so... normal. They're like the missionary position. All business and no flair. 90? Fughedaboudit. A wannabe tele. Too close, too clinical. But 75, that's a bit out there isn't it? I mean who else makes a lens focal length of 75? It just feels daring, like hey, you can leave your hat on, know what I mean? Add to that the warm, round, smudgy, smoothness of f1.4 and it's everything that love oughta be.

    So yeah, crank that black beauty wide open and slide the focus right in tight. It's velvet, shugah.

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    ah, Hot Stuff, you'll always be my sugah!


    and, Stuart, thank you -- for voicing what was going through my head (the first one, when you were a wee bit uppity)

    truly, it hit home who i'd want to buy a lens from. would i buy from someone who dissed this lens? i don't think so! yet the other gentleman i was speaking to, looking at cheaper alternatives to the Cron Asph took one look at my Lux and said whatever you do, don't sell it! he thought i was deciding between a 90 and my 75 (slight language barrier) rather than the 90 being an addition. regardless, his passion for the Lux (even though he didn't own one -- had only seen friend's photos) was enough to make me realise he was a keeper, a dealer that truly loved the art of photography.

    i can totally respect that people don't like the focal point, etc., but to i have issues with those as you pointed out in your second post, number 3.... i mean, this lens makes my toes curl! on any, and every, camera i've used it on. i can accept someone it doesn't work for, but i cannot take disrespect towards it.

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    Roger,

    This is great info. explains a lot. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    I worked on this problem(s) with the 35/50/75Lux an the 50noctilux. Multiple trips to Solms and finally a few hours on site with the NJ leica technician. Things I learned:

    1. Accurate calibration is a subjective issue. What is acceptable to one individual simply will not work for another. Leica s specified tolerances for M8 s and M lenses are not sufficiently tight to insure critical accuracy wide open. Normally the tolerances stay within an acceptable range and frequently offset each other. Learn to test you own lenses and document your results.

    2. Get the camera right first. Try to avoid adjusting the camera and the lens to work together..this just results in a never ending calibartion process everytime you change a body or a lens. Always adjust the lens to a calibrated body.

    3. On the 75 Lux the relationship between the flange thickness(shims) and the cam placement is critical. Only Solms has the equipment to do this. If its not right you can not achieve infinity focus (assuming the lens is calibrated for close and wide open).

    4. The 35Lux is best set for dead on at F2 ...this results in only a very slight front focus wide open and better results as you stop down.

    You can find dozens of threads on the leica user forum on "calibration issues". My only caution is that most M users are quite happy with their camera/lenses and are frequently accepting of slight calibration issues. Asking does your 35Lux focus accurately is in the "eye of the beholder". I get "spot on" all the time for cameras and lenses that are off.

    The benefit of getting this right is a much higher "hit ratio" of sharp images.

    Sorry if this is more than you really were asking .

    Roger
    My Photography Blog here

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    Re: 75 Summilux and 35 Summilux Asph on the M8

    I just got an old, pretty beat up 75 Lux from fleebay (looked a bit worn from the auction pics, but the glass looked clean), for 1700 bucs. Crossed my fingers while awaiting the shippers...

    Thankfully, very pleasantly surprised with both the overall shape of the lens and the glass (glass is pristine, lens looks used but in overall very good condition).

    With the 1.25x magnifier, focusing wide open is doable and the results seem spectacular for portraits. The subject pops off the background nicely! Overall, this lens reminds me of the 3D look and colors that I loved from the Canon 135L, a favorite canon lens of mine. -rob
    Last edited by rchisholm; 14th December 2009 at 18:18.

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