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CV announces 50 1.1 Nokton

ampguy

Member
About 25% of my RF photos are < .7m. From 50/1.4 lux (e46), 75/1.4 lux, 35/2 cron, and even M-Hexanon 28/2.8.

Inconvenient, but it shouldn't be much of a surprise since there are few rangefinder-couple lenses that can get much closer than 0.9m or so. It's not that the manufacturers couldn't make the lenses focus closer -- it's just that the optical and mechanical limitations of a rangefinder camera make it difficult to take advantage of closer focus.

To name two:

-- The lens couples to the rangefinder via a pivoted arm in the camera that swings back and forth, and there are both mechanical and geometric limits on how far this arm can pivot.

-- The rangefinder and viewfinder windows have to converge their viewing angles on the subject as you focus closer; eventually it's possible to get so close that the two windows are seeing the subject from noticeably different viewpoints, which makes it hard to line up the images. I used to have some prismatic "Auto-Up" close-up attachments for my Canon VI-T, and at the closest distances the finder view got noticeably "cross-eyed"!

It's possible to design specific lenses -- Leica makes one -- that will focus closer, using viewfinder and extension attachments to get around the above problems -- but they're still a bit cumbersome and not nearly as flexible as what you can do with a camera that permits through-lens focusing.
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
About 25% of my RF photos are < .7m. From 50/1.4 lux (e46), 75/1.4 lux, 35/2 cron, and even M-Hexanon 28/2.8.
Oh, for goodness' sake, for the benefit of the people who have been beating me up over my original post: yes, out of the hundreds of RF camera models and thousands of RF-coupled lens types produced over the past 80 years or so, there are a few (mostly recent) that permit closer focusing than the traditional limit of 1 meter or so.

Some of those lenses that focus closer don't necessarily support rangefinder coupling at the closer distances, and some lenses that couple at closer distances on some camera models don't necessarily couple at closer distances on other camera models. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find any camera-and-lens combos that focus down to the SLR standard of roughly 18 inches or so, at least not without cumbersome accessories. And those that do are still a bit difficult to use because of the "cross-eyed rangefinder" problem I noted in my original post.

But, let me reiterate, YES, there are SOME RF-coupled lenses that focus significantly closer than one meter, and SOME RF cameras that will couple at those closer distances, and that in implying (although not stating) otherwise I was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongedy-wrong-wrong, and I'm very, very sorry, and I promise that I will never, ever post anything technical about rangefinder cameras or lenses on GetDPI ever again.

Happy now? Good!
 

jonoslack

Active member
Oh, for goodness' sake, for the benefit of the people who have been beating me up over my original post: yes, out of the hundreds of RF camera models and thousands of RF-coupled lens types produced over the past 80 years or so, there are a few (mostly recent) that permit closer focusing than the traditional limit of 1 meter or so.

Some of those lenses that focus closer don't necessarily support rangefinder coupling at the closer distances, and some lenses that couple at closer distances on some camera models don't necessarily couple at closer distances on other camera models. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find any camera-and-lens combos that focus down to the SLR standard of roughly 18 inches or so, at least not without cumbersome accessories. And those that do are still a bit difficult to use because of the "cross-eyed rangefinder" problem I noted in my original post.

But, let me reiterate, YES, there are SOME RF-coupled lenses that focus significantly closer than one meter, and SOME RF cameras that will couple at those closer distances, and that in implying (although not stating) otherwise I was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongedy-wrong-wrong, and I'm very, very sorry, and I promise that I will never, ever post anything technical about rangefinder cameras or lenses on GetDPI ever again.
I should think so too :ROTFL:
 

ampguy

Member
Anyone with a proper Leica M mount body (or even Hexar AF or Zeiss, Bessa, etc.) can RF couple down to 0.7m. No need for scale focus only at < 1m.

Oh, for goodness' sake, for the benefit of the people who have been beating me up over my original post: yes, out of the hundreds of RF camera models and thousands of RF-coupled lens types produced over the past 80 years or so, there are a few (mostly recent) that permit closer focusing than the traditional limit of 1 meter or so.

Some of those lenses that focus closer don't necessarily support rangefinder coupling at the closer distances, and some lenses that couple at closer distances on some camera models don't necessarily couple at closer distances on other camera models. And you'll be very hard-pressed to find any camera-and-lens combos that focus down to the SLR standard of roughly 18 inches or so, at least not without cumbersome accessories. And those that do are still a bit difficult to use because of the "cross-eyed rangefinder" problem I noted in my original post.

But, let me reiterate, YES, there are SOME RF-coupled lenses that focus significantly closer than one meter, and SOME RF cameras that will couple at those closer distances, and that in implying (although not stating) otherwise I was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongedy-wrong-wrong, and I'm very, very sorry, and I promise that I will never, ever post anything technical about rangefinder cameras or lenses on GetDPI ever again.

Happy now? Good!
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
Guess you weren't happy after all, huh?

How about if I promise to give myself 20 lashes with a Luigi neckstrap?
 
E

espressogeek

Guest
I'd like to see a Nokton 50/1.1 and 35/1.2 image thread on here. I say that because I have not seen anything from either one that just knocks my socks off and I wish I could say otherwise.
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
I'd like to see a Nokton 50/1.1 and 35/1.2 image thread on here. I say that because I have not seen anything from either one that just knocks my socks off and I wish I could say otherwise.
I'm not sure there'd be any point, since what knocks one person's socks off might leave another blasé and fully stockinged. And pictures downsampled enough to view easily in a web forum are likely to lose the attributes that contribute to lens-sockknockoffery.

Also, this probably isn't the place for it, since it's the Leica forum and the Noktons are non-Leica lenses that can be, and are, used on other flavors of cameras as well. (Besides, Leica enthusiasts tend to be determinedly sock-retentive over any lenses that don't say "Wetzlar" on them.)

In fact, my own socks are pretty knockoff-resistant. All I'll say about the two Noktons is that I like the idea of lenses that let me produce detailed low-light pictures and that I can afford to buy. It's worth noting that if you want to go out and shop for an M-mount ultraspeed 50 -- and if you want a current-production item, with modern coatings and stuff, that you can buy new -- your only other alternative costs ten thousand dollars and isn't generally available yet.

Still, in the spirit of the thing, here are a couple of pictures which I think might show some of the utility of these lenses even though they're unlikely to achieve sock knockoff. Both were made at full aperture and include a pixel-for-pixel detail view:

35/1.2 Nokton --



50/1.1 Nokton --



[Note that critical DOF doesn't even extend from the front eyelashes to the back ones! I suspect a lot of people are going to subject this lens to wholly irrelevant flat-chart "test" photos of newspapers, brick walls and such, and conclude that it's "unsharp" and "mushy"... when in fact it's their focusing accuracy that's at fault!]
 
R

Ranger 9

Guest
It was too hot to go outside today, so I did some more experiments (NOT "lens tests") with the 50/1.1 Nokton, and wrote up my observations on my blog.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Any lens that will fit a M series or R series is welcome on this Leica forum. If it benefits the members than it certainly is welcome in any brand.
 

cookedart

Member
I was one who really wanted to find photos online of just how large this lens is on an M8 with the UV+IR filter attached.. here are some side and top views, as well as a pic of finder blockage.. hope this will help someone as well.

This is without the hood, which I don't think I will use.
 

cookedart

Member
One thing to note Re: Size...

If you are gawking at how large the lens looks on an M8, consider this:

The 28mm 1.8 USM Canon Prime lens is a small SLR Lens by all accounts... and is roughly the same size as the 50 1.1 Nokton.

Having used a lot of Canon SLR glass, I wouldn't dare call the Nokton a large lens.
 
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