DMR Image Thread

[doug]

 

[robsteve]

Just before lunch today, my kids noticed this painted turtle at the edge of the lake where the ice had melted. In the second picture, he is fully underwater.

Hand held with the 100mm APO Macro. He didn't hang around long enough for me to do a better job with a bit of camera support.

 

[jaapv]

I took a walk with the venerable Apo-Telyt 180/3.4 and 2x Apo-Extender on. Not bad at all

 

[jaapv]

I've just processed a couple more, where I moved in closer:

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Lovely photos Jaap! I believe that is called a Great Crested Grebe in English...do you often see them where you live? I have never seen one...

 

[jaapv]

Yes, it is indeed called the Great Crested Grebe. We have considerable numbers around. Thanks for your comment

 

[roguewave]

Glad to see some of the DMR users here. We seem to be a thinning crowd. Here's an image I took some time ago with the 80 Lux that I think really shows the strength of this kit.

 

[Pedro Mendes]

Glad to meet you here roguewave.
This is a lovely portrait and i like also the bokeh.
As to the DMR,I'm afraid we are not a crowd any more.For me the the DMR is my main gear and it will also be in the future,as I ordered an AS Monolith and an adapter from Just Together.With a Rodenstock macro 120 it will be used for my florals.Of course this gear with a DMR it's overkill,but in fotography the important thing is having fun right ?
Regards
Pedro

 

[robsteve]

As illustrated above, I don't think there is a 35mm Digital that can do better/smoother skin tones than the DMR.

Robert

 

[ddk]

Glad to see some of the DMR users here. We seem to be a thinning crowd. Here's an image I took some time ago with the 80 Lux that I think really shows the strength of this kit.

This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.

 

[iiiNelson]

This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.

I think price and relatively obscurity had something to do with it not catching on. I too still think a R10 makes more sense than the S2 but I digress it's hard to argue with great images.

 

[ddk]

I think price and relatively obscurity had something to do with it not catching on. I too still think a R10 makes more sense than the S2 but I digress it's hard to argue with great images.

I can understand the S2, its niche and they don't need to compete with anyone. On the other hand a new R10/DMR system has tough competition at every price point. A new 8k+ dslr system today needs to have at least a 22mp, ff sensor with new af lenses just to be marketable now and obsolete in 2 years time. As much as I would have liked to see an R10 I don't see how Leica can compete with Nikon, Canon and now Sony in the dslr market.

 

[iiiNelson]

I can understand the S2, its niche and they don't need to compete with anyone. On the other hand a new R10/DMR system has tough competition at every price point. A new 8k+ dslr system today needs to have at least a 22mp, ff sensor with new af lenses just to be marketable now and obsolete in 2 years time. As much as I would have liked to see an R10 I don't see how Leica can compete with Nikon, Canon and now Sony in the dslr market.

Well I respectfully disagree on some fronts because the "lowly" DMR images look as good if not better than the larger file size of the Sony, Nikon, and Canon dSLR. I think a camera in the 15-25 MP range is a "requirement" for marketing but it would be wise to keep the DR of the DMR. I think that makes a great difference in IQ.

The S2 still has to compete with MF cameras and get new users whereas the R10 already has some baseline users awaiting the product. I agree that AF lenses would need to be made but that wouldn't make the old R lenses completely obsolete provided they still mounted. I'm sure there would be a lot of people snatching up the last of the R lenses because AF lenses would mean a product more expensive to make and a number of people dumping the old lenses for the new equivalents.

 

[ddk]

Well I respectfully disagree on some fronts because the "lowly" DMR images look as good if not better than the larger file size of the Sony, Nikon, and Canon dSLR. I think a camera in the 15-25 MP range is a "requirement" for marketing but it would be wise to keep the DR of the DMR. I think that makes a great difference in IQ.

I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it. On the other hand Canon and Sony have quite a number advantages and features at a bargain price. And I'm sure that sooner rather than later Nikon's going to come in with their own player for this market. Don't forget that Leica probably would have had to invest a whole new line of AF lenses too, and what would they have ended up costing? How many people would pay for those new lenses to make them justifiable? Even if one accepts that Leica glass is superior to Nikon's and Canon's, Japanese made Zeiss optics are now common at prices that Leica can only dream about. Given Leica's history and marketing/manufacturing volume I don't see how they could turn a profit with an R10 camera and line of lenses today.

The S2 still has to compete with MF cameras and get new users whereas the R10 already has some baseline users awaiting the product. I agree that AF lenses would need to be made but that wouldn't make the old R lenses completely obsolete provided they still mounted. I'm sure there would be a lot of people snatching up the last of the R lenses because AF lenses would mean a product more expensive to make and a number of people dumping the old lenses for the new equivalents.

Look at the number of users here or any other forum for that matter and you'll see that the base line users have unfortunately, faded. Besides out of the remaining ones how many would opt for 35mm lenses starting at 3k+ price points? Those who would pay for a new Leica R10 camera and lenses, would also go for the S2 system.

I don't know how successful the S2 will be, but its a unique platform and there's really nothing like it on offer from anyone else yet. Unlike 35mm sensors that many claim to have peaked out S2's sensor size can easily accommodate future mp increases. I think the S2 customers will come from both higher end dslr users and MF shooters who are already used to paying high prices for their gear, so there's enough margin there for Leica to compete and even make a decent profit. I think that this was a smart move for them.

 

[jaapv]

There will be a market for the R10, which I am convinced will come. Even if one could afford an S2, an R10 will appeal to a lot of users, to start with users of long lenses. The S2 is much too big with too heavy lenses to compete in that field. As long as the R10 is a " baby S2" it will not be in direct competition with Canon and Nikon but will occupy its niche. Of course it will need to have a mount that will acommodate S2 lenses as well as R lenses through an adapter to be successful. As a backup for S2 users as well as a camera for former R owners as well as one for those that want a smaller size camera that can take the central shutter lenses of the S2.And of course simply for those, probably all DMR owners I would say, that want a Leica DSLR in the 135 class....

 

[fotografz]

There will be a market for the R10, which I am convinced will come. Even if one could afford an S2, an R10 will appeal to a lot of users, to start with users of long lenses. The S2 is much too big with too heavy lenses to compete in that field. As long as the R10 is a " baby S2" it will not be in direct competition with Canon and Nikon but will occupy its niche. Of course it will need to have a mount that will accommodate S2 lenses as well as R lenses through an adapter to be successful. As a backup for S2 users as well as a camera for former R owners as well as one for those that want a smaller size camera that can take the central shutter lenses of the S2.And of course simply for those, probably all DMR owners I would say, that want a Leica DSLR in the 135 class....

A fairly reliable "birdie" just today told me the R10 by year's end. We'll see.

If they deliver a DSLR with the IQ of the DMR ... only full frame, AND the optics we've come to expect from Leica ... only AF this time ... then it will succeed if only to an exclusive group of users. But that's always been true for Leica.

IMO and direct experience, the DMR and R glass holds it's own in terms of IQ against the A900 with Zeiss lenses, and in some cases is still better than any DSLR out there. However, in more demanding circumstances the DMR just wasn't a viable camera for someone like me. An A900 with AF lenses and internal VR gets more successful shots in more varying conditions ... it's a simple as that ... and does it for a fraction of the price.

But IQ is IQ .... which is why the M8 is sought after despite being crop framed, needing IR filters, and all the other nagging issues. It is amazing what we'll put up with to squeeze a tad more IQ out of our efforts.

 

[robsteve]

This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on.

It caught on well enough to sell all they made Sometimes people forget this.

What is a shame was the Imacon/Hasselblad connection that killed any future developments like a R10 in a timely manner. This is what left us stuck without a DMR successor when the original DMR batch was sold out.

Robert

 

[douglasf13]

...I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it.....

I would humbly suggest that the 5Dii is lacking more than the Sony. Sony has done a couple of things to the A900 that separate it from its competition, and this rarely gets discussed...much like the DMR in its time. Firstly, the A900 has better color separation than any other FF out there right now. It has near-medium format color, and does better in the blues than Canon (mushy skintones) and better in the greens than the D3/D3x (mushy grass.) This has led to a noisier camera at high ISO when compared to the competition, but it seems well worth it IMO. Secondly, the A900's sensor response isn't linear like most DLSRs, and it has a curve closer to film, which is responsible for the nice highlight roll-off.

Hopefully an R10 comes to fruition, but if not, remember that Leica lenses are easily adapted to A mount, and hopefully Leitax brings some help

 

[woodyspedden]

This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.

Actually David, the real shame is that it did catch on and the first thousand (the entire first production run) sold quickly. Problem was that by this point Imacon had done the deal with Hasselblad and didn't want to put any more energy into Leica. So without their support Leica was dead in the water. Apparently they had farmed out all of the software developement to Imacon and had none of the expertise in house. They won't make that mistake again!

Woody

 

[woodyspedden]

I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it. On the other hand Canon and Sony have quite a number advantages and features at a bargain price. And I'm sure that sooner rather than later Nikon's going to come in with their own player for this market. Don't forget that Leica probably would have had to invest a whole new line of AF lenses too, and what would they have ended up costing? How many people would pay for those new lenses to make them justifiable? Even if one accepts that Leica glass is superior to Nikon's and Canon's, Japanese made Zeiss optics are now common at prices that Leica can only dream about. Given Leica's history and marketing/manufacturing volume I don't see how they could turn a profit with an R10 camera and line of lenses today.



Look at the number of users here or any other forum for that matter and you'll see that the base line users have unfortunately, faded. Besides out of the remaining ones how many would opt for 35mm lenses starting at 3k+ price points? Those who would pay for a new Leica R10 camera and lenses, would also go for the S2 system.

I don't know how successful the S2 will be, but its a unique platform and there's really nothing like it on offer from anyone else yet. Unlike 35mm sensors that many claim to have peaked out S2's sensor size can easily accommodate future mp increases. I think the S2 customers will come from both higher end dslr users and MF shooters who are already used to paying high prices for their gear, so there's enough margin there for Leica to compete and even make a decent profit. I think that this was a smart move for them.

Problem with your analysis is that you are looking at the baseline as being the previous DMR users. Fact is that R lenses have been around to support everything from the R1 to the R9 and there are thousands of them in the field. I think that a superb functioning R10 may well bring many of those users, as well as the previous DMR users into the Leica digital world. JMHO

Woody