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Thread: DMR Image Thread

  1. #201
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    A neighbor put on a fireworks display in honor of his wife's birthday and the three other ladies in the neighborhood having a birthday in the next month or so. After the fireworks we went back to another neighbor's house for cake.

    I had to spot out quite a few water droplets in the image. It was snowing and the lens was pointed up into the falling snow. I tried shading it with my hand and wiping often, but still a lot of water drops got on the front element.

    I posted the cake shot to Illustrate that it is not the M8 that can get ghost images with point light sources like candles. I have seen this with my Canons as well.

    Robert




  2. #202
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    A couple more captive raptors:







    All photos: R8/DMR, 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt-R, shoulder stock & monopod.

  3. #203
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    A few photos from yesterday in Kailua Hawaii:

    Hawaiian race of the Black-necked Stilt:


    Hawaiian Coot:


    Black-crowned Night Heron"




    Tech stuff: R8/DMR, 280 f/4 APO, all except last one with 1.4x APO-Extender-R

    I'm not on my regular computer so the colors might be a little off.

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Doug - the raptors are really excellent: expressions, detail, color, isolation of the subject, and the first one from the second series is wonderful as well.

  5. #205
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    How many DMR shooters do we have left here? Is it just Doug, Charles, Jaap and I?

    I haven't set up my studio lights in a few years. I took the time over the last week or so to clean out a space for a studio and hang a backdrop a friend had given me. This is a test shot of my son, his dog and a friend that was over for a visit.




  6. #206
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Rob

    I still shoot the DMR about 30% of the time . Waiting impatiently for the R10. Still think the quality is great.

    Roger

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I sold mine over the summer, though I still shoot the R9. I am interested to see how the s2 and r10 shake out...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I'm still here.

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Robert, In my last trip in the summer I had a water problem and it takes the pictures fine but the monitor image is upsidedown and with very low resolution. I an acostumed to take pictures like this and find it not a big problem. (i sent it to leica and it is not possible to repair)

  10. #210
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I'm still here, I've been in Hawaii the last few weeks tending my daughter and new granddaughter:



    There's some wildlife here too:









    Still not on my regular computer, the colors might not be quite right

  11. #211
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Doug:

    They all look good except for the last one where you either had flare or your black point is off.

    Robert

  12. #212
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I titled this "Procrastination" In my basement, I had a roll of seamless backdrop I must have bought about seven years ago and never used. Last weekend I got onto Ebay and ordered a set of backdrop stands. The stands arrived today. This is my first shot with the seamless paper that had been sitting unused in the basement all these years.


  13. #213
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Just to keep this thread alive. I was bored today and decided to play around with panoramas and stitching. This was a stitch of 15 tightly spaced verticals. The original file was over 14,000x3,800 pixels.

    I can't figure out how to make the thumbnail link to the 1920 pixel wide image, so here is the wide image.


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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Very nice Robert. I see what appears to be one seam, ever so slightly, in the sky above the stand of pine trees in the center of the image - about 5 trees over from the right. May be just my monitor, though. The reds look perfect!

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Question for you DMR-guys. Do any of you who also use digital MF-gear feel that the DMR delievers as good tones and IQ as MF, if Megapixel are not the point?
    I sold my DMR but feel I can not totally get the same IQ with my M8 and planning to move into MF for that reason (tones, sharpnes, color depth, microdetail). I dont print large. I wondered if I might save the money and just get another R9 and DMR.(I have neber sold the 15/3.5, 19/2.8 and 28-90)

    SO how does the DMR compare to MF in your opinion?
    Thanks, Thomas
    IMO, the DMR still stands as an unique animal in the 35mm DSLR world. More than any other camera it could be considered a miniture version of a MFD camera. No surprise, since it is a 16 bit CCD based sensor and MF maker Imacon provided much of the over-all functionality.

    Until the R 10 arrives, probably the closest thing with more features like AF, TTL flash, and image stabilization ... and higher resolution ... would be the Sony A900 and Ziess optics.

    But if you already have a bunch of R optics ...

  16. #216
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Until the R 10 arrives, probably the closest thing with more features like AF, TTL flash, and image stabilization ... and higher resolution ... would be the Sony A900 and Ziess optics.

    But if you already have a bunch of R optics ...
    How do the Sony images compare to the DMR images? As Tom mentioned above, I haven't found any digital SLR that provides the file quality of the DMR. It is almost like there is more to them, more range and better colour.

    Robert

  17. #217
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Very nice Robert. I see what appears to be one seam, ever so slightly, in the sky above the stand of pine trees in the center of the image - about 5 trees over from the right. May be just my monitor, though. The reds look perfect!
    I see that too in the full size image, but more subtle. When I down size the file it becomes more obvious. I am not slick enough with the panorama function of CS3 to figure out how to change these blends manually. Sometimes just processing the same set of files again produces better results. I may try that.

    BTW, while talking about pine trees and colour, the DMR is the only digital I have tried that gets evergreens right. The greens are the right tone/colour and there is detail in the shadows. Normal digitals just block it up with darker greens and dense shadows.

    Robert

  18. #218
    Pedro Mendes
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I shoot R9+DMR and am waiting for the futur R something,hoping that I can use my R lenses with it.
    This one is of today,with the Apo-Macro-Elmarit 100.
    Pedro

  19. #219
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Here is a Panorama aimed in the other direction. With the pan and stitch method, the resolution you get is amazing. I used a 50mm Summicron here.



    Click here for the full size image, about 23mb and 16,500 pixels wide

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Oh yes, it sees plenty of use Still, I am waiting to keep it as backup to the R10

    35-70 4.0:
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  21. #221
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread


  22. #222
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Just before lunch today, my kids noticed this painted turtle at the edge of the lake where the ice had melted. In the second picture, he is fully underwater.

    Hand held with the 100mm APO Macro. He didn't hang around long enough for me to do a better job with a bit of camera support.



    Last edited by robsteve; 28th March 2009 at 08:28.

  23. #223
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I took a walk with the venerable Apo-Telyt 180/3.4 and 2x Apo-Extender on. Not bad at all
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  24. #224
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I've just processed a couple more, where I moved in closer:





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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Lovely photos Jaap! I believe that is called a Great Crested Grebe in English...do you often see them where you live? I have never seen one...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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  26. #226
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Yes, it is indeed called the Great Crested Grebe. We have considerable numbers around. Thanks for your comment
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  27. #227
    roguewave
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Glad to see some of the DMR users here. We seem to be a thinning crowd. Here's an image I took some time ago with the 80 Lux that I think really shows the strength of this kit.

  28. #228
    Pedro Mendes
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Glad to meet you here roguewave.
    This is a lovely portrait and i like also the bokeh.
    As to the DMR,I'm afraid we are not a crowd any more.For me the the DMR is my main gear and it will also be in the future,as I ordered an AS Monolith and an adapter from Just Together.With a Rodenstock macro 120 it will be used for my florals.Of course this gear with a DMR it's overkill,but in fotography the important thing is having fun right ?
    Regards
    Pedro

  29. #229
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    As illustrated above, I don't think there is a 35mm Digital that can do better/smoother skin tones than the DMR.

    Robert

  30. #230
    ddk
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by roguewave View Post
    Glad to see some of the DMR users here. We seem to be a thinning crowd. Here's an image I took some time ago with the 80 Lux that I think really shows the strength of this kit.
    This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.
    I think price and relatively obscurity had something to do with it not catching on. I too still think a R10 makes more sense than the S2 but I digress it's hard to argue with great images.
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  32. #232
    ddk
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I think price and relatively obscurity had something to do with it not catching on. I too still think a R10 makes more sense than the S2 but I digress it's hard to argue with great images.
    I can understand the S2, its niche and they don't need to compete with anyone. On the other hand a new R10/DMR system has tough competition at every price point. A new 8k+ dslr system today needs to have at least a 22mp, ff sensor with new af lenses just to be marketable now and obsolete in 2 years time. As much as I would have liked to see an R10 I don't see how Leica can compete with Nikon, Canon and now Sony in the dslr market.

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    I can understand the S2, its niche and they don't need to compete with anyone. On the other hand a new R10/DMR system has tough competition at every price point. A new 8k+ dslr system today needs to have at least a 22mp, ff sensor with new af lenses just to be marketable now and obsolete in 2 years time. As much as I would have liked to see an R10 I don't see how Leica can compete with Nikon, Canon and now Sony in the dslr market.
    Well I respectfully disagree on some fronts because the "lowly" DMR images look as good if not better than the larger file size of the Sony, Nikon, and Canon dSLR. I think a camera in the 15-25 MP range is a "requirement" for marketing but it would be wise to keep the DR of the DMR. I think that makes a great difference in IQ.

    The S2 still has to compete with MF cameras and get new users whereas the R10 already has some baseline users awaiting the product. I agree that AF lenses would need to be made but that wouldn't make the old R lenses completely obsolete provided they still mounted. I'm sure there would be a lot of people snatching up the last of the R lenses because AF lenses would mean a product more expensive to make and a number of people dumping the old lenses for the new equivalents.
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  34. #234
    ddk
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Well I respectfully disagree on some fronts because the "lowly" DMR images look as good if not better than the larger file size of the Sony, Nikon, and Canon dSLR. I think a camera in the 15-25 MP range is a "requirement" for marketing but it would be wise to keep the DR of the DMR. I think that makes a great difference in IQ.
    I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it. On the other hand Canon and Sony have quite a number advantages and features at a bargain price. And I'm sure that sooner rather than later Nikon's going to come in with their own player for this market. Don't forget that Leica probably would have had to invest a whole new line of AF lenses too, and what would they have ended up costing? How many people would pay for those new lenses to make them justifiable? Even if one accepts that Leica glass is superior to Nikon's and Canon's, Japanese made Zeiss optics are now common at prices that Leica can only dream about. Given Leica's history and marketing/manufacturing volume I don't see how they could turn a profit with an R10 camera and line of lenses today.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    The S2 still has to compete with MF cameras and get new users whereas the R10 already has some baseline users awaiting the product. I agree that AF lenses would need to be made but that wouldn't make the old R lenses completely obsolete provided they still mounted. I'm sure there would be a lot of people snatching up the last of the R lenses because AF lenses would mean a product more expensive to make and a number of people dumping the old lenses for the new equivalents.
    Look at the number of users here or any other forum for that matter and you'll see that the base line users have unfortunately, faded. Besides out of the remaining ones how many would opt for 35mm lenses starting at 3k+ price points? Those who would pay for a new Leica R10 camera and lenses, would also go for the S2 system.

    I don't know how successful the S2 will be, but its a unique platform and there's really nothing like it on offer from anyone else yet. Unlike 35mm sensors that many claim to have peaked out S2's sensor size can easily accommodate future mp increases. I think the S2 customers will come from both higher end dslr users and MF shooters who are already used to paying high prices for their gear, so there's enough margin there for Leica to compete and even make a decent profit. I think that this was a smart move for them.

  35. #235
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    There will be a market for the R10, which I am convinced will come. Even if one could afford an S2, an R10 will appeal to a lot of users, to start with users of long lenses. The S2 is much too big with too heavy lenses to compete in that field. As long as the R10 is a " baby S2" it will not be in direct competition with Canon and Nikon but will occupy its niche. Of course it will need to have a mount that will acommodate S2 lenses as well as R lenses through an adapter to be successful. As a backup for S2 users as well as a camera for former R owners as well as one for those that want a smaller size camera that can take the central shutter lenses of the S2.And of course simply for those, probably all DMR owners I would say, that want a Leica DSLR in the 135 class....
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  36. #236
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    There will be a market for the R10, which I am convinced will come. Even if one could afford an S2, an R10 will appeal to a lot of users, to start with users of long lenses. The S2 is much too big with too heavy lenses to compete in that field. As long as the R10 is a " baby S2" it will not be in direct competition with Canon and Nikon but will occupy its niche. Of course it will need to have a mount that will accommodate S2 lenses as well as R lenses through an adapter to be successful. As a backup for S2 users as well as a camera for former R owners as well as one for those that want a smaller size camera that can take the central shutter lenses of the S2.And of course simply for those, probably all DMR owners I would say, that want a Leica DSLR in the 135 class....
    A fairly reliable "birdie" just today told me the R10 by year's end. We'll see.

    If they deliver a DSLR with the IQ of the DMR ... only full frame, AND the optics we've come to expect from Leica ... only AF this time ... then it will succeed if only to an exclusive group of users. But that's always been true for Leica.

    IMO and direct experience, the DMR and R glass holds it's own in terms of IQ against the A900 with Zeiss lenses, and in some cases is still better than any DSLR out there. However, in more demanding circumstances the DMR just wasn't a viable camera for someone like me. An A900 with AF lenses and internal VR gets more successful shots in more varying conditions ... it's a simple as that ... and does it for a fraction of the price.

    But IQ is IQ .... which is why the M8 is sought after despite being crop framed, needing IR filters, and all the other nagging issues. It is amazing what we'll put up with to squeeze a tad more IQ out of our efforts.

  37. #237
    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on.
    It caught on well enough to sell all they made Sometimes people forget this.

    What is a shame was the Imacon/Hasselblad connection that killed any future developments like a R10 in a timely manner. This is what left us stuck without a DMR successor when the original DMR batch was sold out.

    Robert

  38. #238
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    ...I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it.....
    I would humbly suggest that the 5Dii is lacking more than the Sony. Sony has done a couple of things to the A900 that separate it from its competition, and this rarely gets discussed...much like the DMR in its time. Firstly, the A900 has better color separation than any other FF out there right now. It has near-medium format color, and does better in the blues than Canon (mushy skintones) and better in the greens than the D3/D3x (mushy grass.) This has led to a noisier camera at high ISO when compared to the competition, but it seems well worth it IMO. Secondly, the A900's sensor response isn't linear like most DLSRs, and it has a curve closer to film, which is responsible for the nice highlight roll-off.

    Hopefully an R10 comes to fruition, but if not, remember that Leica lenses are easily adapted to A mount, and hopefully Leitax brings some help

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    This thread really shows the strengths of the DMR system over the M8 and most other dslrs out there, shame it didn't catch on. The quality is the same as the wonderful Kodak slrn but without its problems plus the added benefit of wonderful Leica R lenses to boot, I think that its still an unbeatable combination, shame Leica decided against the R10.
    Actually David, the real shame is that it did catch on and the first thousand (the entire first production run) sold quickly. Problem was that by this point Imacon had done the deal with Hasselblad and didn't want to put any more energy into Leica. So without their support Leica was dead in the water. Apparently they had farmed out all of the software developement to Imacon and had none of the expertise in house. They won't make that mistake again!

    Woody

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    I'm not the one who needs convincing nor the small group of users around, its the market in general. While the A900 or the 5Dmk2 might be lacking in IQ in some ways compared to the Leica, only a few would appreciate or even care about it. On the other hand Canon and Sony have quite a number advantages and features at a bargain price. And I'm sure that sooner rather than later Nikon's going to come in with their own player for this market. Don't forget that Leica probably would have had to invest a whole new line of AF lenses too, and what would they have ended up costing? How many people would pay for those new lenses to make them justifiable? Even if one accepts that Leica glass is superior to Nikon's and Canon's, Japanese made Zeiss optics are now common at prices that Leica can only dream about. Given Leica's history and marketing/manufacturing volume I don't see how they could turn a profit with an R10 camera and line of lenses today.



    Look at the number of users here or any other forum for that matter and you'll see that the base line users have unfortunately, faded. Besides out of the remaining ones how many would opt for 35mm lenses starting at 3k+ price points? Those who would pay for a new Leica R10 camera and lenses, would also go for the S2 system.

    I don't know how successful the S2 will be, but its a unique platform and there's really nothing like it on offer from anyone else yet. Unlike 35mm sensors that many claim to have peaked out S2's sensor size can easily accommodate future mp increases. I think the S2 customers will come from both higher end dslr users and MF shooters who are already used to paying high prices for their gear, so there's enough margin there for Leica to compete and even make a decent profit. I think that this was a smart move for them.
    Problem with your analysis is that you are looking at the baseline as being the previous DMR users. Fact is that R lenses have been around to support everything from the R1 to the R9 and there are thousands of them in the field. I think that a superb functioning R10 may well bring many of those users, as well as the previous DMR users into the Leica digital world. JMHO

    Woody

  41. #241
    ddk
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Problem with your analysis is that you are looking at the baseline as being the previous DMR users. Fact is that R lenses have been around to support everything from the R1 to the R9 and there are thousands of them in the field. I think that a superb functioning R10 may well bring many of those users, as well as the previous DMR users into the Leica digital world. JMHO

    Woody
    I would be very happy if they come out with an R10, but I don't see it happening, the dslr market is way too competitive right now and a fast moving target, very different than 4-5 years ago. Unfortunately all of my favorite dslrs (Fuji/Kodak/dmr) seem to have lost out to bigger market forces, at least Leica is still in the running.

  42. #242
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    I don't think it's that important that this is a competitive segment as long as they released a product worth the number that it is priced. No matter what it would be a relatively low volume niche Leica product but there's no doubt they would be able to move 20 times more R10's than S2's. This would be due to a price difference and the install base of R users. The S2 has to create a new market but expected price would dictate it'll compete with MF cameras even if it is a hybrid dSLR/ MF camera. A R10 body priced in the $3500-6000 range could compete quite well with the big brands even if it doesn't have the newest everything as long as the IQ is a step or 2 ahead. The S2 generates buzz and is an exciting product for the select few who can justify the price but the R10 would've likely been a safer bet.
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  43. #243
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    When and if the R10 comes out, expect it to be priced similar or slightly more than a Canon 1 series or the Nikon D series equivalent. It was always this way with the film cameras and the DMR/R9 combo that was available as a package after the introduction of the DMR.

    What does a 1Ds MkIII or a Nikon D3x sell for?

    Robert

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    $6500-8000 currently.
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  45. #245
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    $6500-8000 currently.
    My guess is the R10 will probably be 500 dollars/euros more than the D3x list price and since it probably will be in demand it would sell at list for the first few months to a year.

    I thought the D3x was a lot more than $8,000.

    Robert

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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    My guess is the R10 will probably be 500 dollars/euros more than the D3x list price and since it probably will be in demand it would sell at list for the first few months to a year.

    I thought the D3x was a lot more than $8,000.

    Robert
    No the D3x is "only" $8000... It's kinda of a shame though since it has the same sensor as the a900 which goes for $3000.
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  47. #247
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    Changineg of the Guard

    105-280
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  48. #248
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    Colours of Spring

    105/280 @ 280, Polfilter ( watch the mozzies )


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  49. #249
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    watching

    105-280. Am I the only one keeping this thread alive? What happened to the other DMRs
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    Re: DMR Image Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    My guess is the R10 will probably be 500 dollars/euros more than the D3x list price and since it probably will be in demand it would sell at list for the first few months to a year.

    I thought the D3x was a lot more than $8,000.

    Robert
    Actually B&H has been selling the D3X for about $7300 recently.......driven I expect by the 1DsMkIII pricing!

    Woody

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