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Thread: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

  1. #1
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    Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Copied from this morning's LUF post, q.v.

    JaapV's words:

    There seems to be an impression on this forum that Carl and I disagree on the roadmap for the M series. We do not.
    I would like to add we are both fluent in German, so there is no doubt about translations and such.

    We both heard Stefan Daniel say:

    1: There will be a future M
    2. There are indications there is a solution for the IR filters, but that is still being worked on by the Leica engineers.
    3. The future M will be full format
    4. The future M will be announced after the production and delivery of the S2 has been implemented. Currently the S2 is taking up resources that cannot be diverted to other projects
    5. The S2 is running on time and the delivery will be as announced before, i.e September
    6. The R-solution will be announced after the M camera is implemented, probably (interpretation!) not in 2010

    The impression Stefan Daniel gave is that the work on the M9 is progressing well.

    Our interpretations on dates differ. Carl thinks we may have to wait until the Fotokina for the M news, I think it might well be before that time.

    One thing Carl did not pick up and I did is that Stefan said at one point:
    "be it an M9 or M8.3"

    .................................................. .................

    In a later conversation I tackled Stefan on the view/rangefinder.
    Leica has looked into the accuracy of the optical rangefinder as it is now, as they are obviously aware that the M8 is at the performance limit of the system, as Mark has often pointed out.
    Stefan told me that tests by Leica engineers have proved that, with the different magnification factor, the classic optical finder is better on full format than on the M8.

    To me that implies that the M9 will have an M7 style optical rangefinder and effectively kills all speculation on the introduction of electronic gadgetry into the system. It may even be a hint as to the form factor of the camera





    My thinking: I'm not surprised to hear that all real work in Solms right at the moment is directed at getting the S2 out the door and hitting their target of 10000 properly supported Pro customers. Everything else, including the M9 plans, still sounds exploratory, with major decisions still to be made.

    scott

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Is there any difference between the M7-style and M8-styleoptical viewfinder besides magnification and frames?

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    No.
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Thank you Scott and Jaap
    We live in interesting times.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Boy, are Leica missing the boat. They should be intent on getting the M9 out the door instead of the S2. No way are they going to make 10,000 in sales of that camera. Not only are pros strapped by the economy right now, the S2 just isn't a "yachting set" kind of camera like the M and R have been. So I don't even see the appeal to the super wealthy or collectors that a system like the M has.

    The M9 has a built in base of customers. I know I would buy one tomorrow. Figure it out leica!

  6. #6
    Ranger 9
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Well, those guys heard it firsthand and I didn't; just read the summary on LUF.

    But in that, in reference to the future of the Ms, SD was quoted only as saying there would be no more updates to the M8 because "we are more interested in new cameras." (Paraphrasing here; don't have time to chase down the exact quote right now.)

    Not "new future M models." Just "new cameras." By which he could mean the S-series, or even D-Luxes.

    Again, maybe SD said something else in person, but I just want to caution against the strong bias toward wish-fulfillment that tends to characterize all future camera speculation.

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    No, it was clear that he meant M cameras in this case. It can hardly come as a surprise, as any further improvements to the M series will entail considerable changes to the internals of the bodyshell, making any upgrade economically senseless.
    JAAP
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    I just don't understand why Leica can put this out a public document. Do they not have at least one media relations person? Are they afraid to put it under the Leica letterhead?

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    No - they were speaking privately to their core customer base.
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    They were speaking privately? It sure doesn't sound private to me. Mr. D was talking to people apparently without limitation on their disclosing what he said. He may have been speaking unofficially, but it certainly wasn't private.

    As someone who doesn't particularly care what Leica decides to do next, I'd sure appreciate it if they could make a definitive statement or just shut up. I'd prefer the former, as it might cut out some of the frenzied speculation about the next M or R or whatever.

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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Guys, it's called viral marketing, Teutonic version. Find a base that will spread basically positive rumors, and use them to offset the feeling that no news is bad news among the more distant audience. Keeps both sets aware of Leica's continued existence and effort.

    scott

  12. #12
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Boy, are Leica missing the boat. They should be intent on getting the M9 out the door instead of the S2. No way are they going to make 10,000 in sales of that camera. Not only are pros strapped by the economy right now, the S2 just isn't a "yachting set" kind of camera like the M and R have been. So I don't even see the appeal to the super wealthy or collectors that a system like the M has.

    The M9 has a built in base of customers. I know I would buy one tomorrow. Figure it out leica!
    +1

    And I think unofficial means you don't have to response for your words.

    kitty

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    They were speaking privately? It sure doesn't sound private to me. Mr. D was talking to people apparently without limitation on their disclosing what he said. He may have been speaking unofficially, but it certainly wasn't private.
    Ok, semantics. Informally. But officially.

    As someone who doesn't particularly care what Leica decides to do next, I'd sure appreciate it if they could make a definitive statement or just shut up. I'd prefer the former, as it might cut out some of the frenzied speculation about the next M or R or whatever.
    Wishing for the moon? That will never end. But if it irritates you, why read? I don't go into forums or read threads about things that don't particularly interest me. Life is too short.
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    The colours of my generation are black and white.

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    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    just an observation but
    "be it an M9 or M8.3"

    M8 has a FF shutter, space will not be an issue, and I cite the following image by Mark Norton, where you can see the masked area around the sensor. Which could be exchanged for a FF sensor. (with supplementary electronics)


    therefore 2 things come to mind

    1/ if its M9, it can easily be largely the same hardware
    2/ and it 'might' be possible to upgrade M8 to M9, making M8.3

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    No, the bodyshell will have to be redesigned and retooled. The electronics will be totally different, based on the Maestro chip, so the layout will be different. The shutter may be fine, but the battery housing intrudes just too much, so that will have to be changed as well to create enough space.
    JAAP
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    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    No, the bodyshell will have to be redesigned and retooled. The electronics will be totally different, based on the Maestro chip, so the layout will be different. The shutter may be fine, but the battery housing intrudes just too much, so that will have to be changed as well to create enough space.
    yes i acknowledged differences in electronics
    the execution of that is minor, design is another matter

    why do you think the body would change ?

  17. #17
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Here's JaapV's summary of the Friday disclosures:

    Because the current body is designed around the shape of the current electronics. The next body will have to look a whole lot different - on the inside !- to accomodate the various bits and parts. It is not as if there is any space left to play around with.
    JAAP
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    The colours of my generation are black and white.

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