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Thread: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Just back from 9 days of non stop streeting shooting in Paris. As I edit through about 1500 images , I couldn t be more pleased with the performance of the new 21/1.4 asph. The extra 2 stops over the 21/2.8asph (a favorite for street shooting).....made the 21 available for night shooting. The following 5 images should tell the story.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    lovely shots. m8 or film?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by drazin View Post
    lovely shots. m8 or film?
    Thank you ..all M8.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Great shots I'm with you, with this lens on the M8 I find it hard to take a bad photograph. It is a winner! Just look at that bokeh in shot #1!
    JAAP
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Great shots. Just the kind of photos that make me think that spending too much money on too expensive cameras and lenses might be worth it anyway

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    The dog shot was 4 ft from the subject and at f1.4....you can see the DOF in the stones .

    The big advantage is working with 1.4 lens at dawn or dusk. I paired the 21 with the 35 or 50 lux asph at night tried to stay at ISO 320 as long as I could. The 21 and the 35 look like a matched set ..same color and contrast.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Beautiful stuff Roger. The 21 Lux might be the perfect street lens, and is perfectly suited to your style of shooting. I'm curious - did you use a tripod on the last shot of the Eiffel Tower or is it hand-held?

    I'm really looking forward to seeing more selections from your trip.

    David
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Beautiful stuff Roger. The 21 Lux might be the perfect street lens, and is perfectly suited to your style of shooting. I'm curious - did you use a tripod on the last shot of the Eiffel Tower or is it hand-held?

    I'm really looking forward to seeing more selections from your trip.

    David
    The Eiffel Tower shot was hand held on a stone ledge . Tripod would be sharper(and a lot easier) but we went on the spur of the moment and I didn t have it with me.

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger,
    Great shots! Love the shot of the dogs, a very strong angle to shoot them from. Look forward to seeing more posts.

    Al
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Good stuff Roger. Can't wait to see more. The 21/1.4 is a great lens and you've done a great job showing its qualities. Of course the person behind the lens matters also.

    Mark

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Yes please do show us more. How much does these lens go for?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    The following may further illustrate the character of the new 21/1.4. Two sunny day shots followed by 100% sections. To my eye this lens has all the sharpness I need and is limited by the photographer,the sensor especially at 640 and my attempts to properly process the files. The micro contrast can be seen in the flag and the separation of tones in both the highlights and shadows. The final image is really how the lens is intended to differentiate itself in a low light situation. The lights come on at 10 30pm this time of year in Paris ....this image was Iso 640,f1.4,1/45 ..so its loss in IQ is due to ISO ,DOF and camera shake.

    The Jpegs lost a lot from the originals ...the 100% crops are much sharper than the illustration but you get the idea. Best comparison is similar to the 35/1.4asph rendering .

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Just back from 9 days of non stop streeting shooting in Paris. As I edit through about 1500 images , I couldn t be more pleased with the performance of the new 21/1.4 asph. The extra 2 stops over the 21/2.8asph (a favorite for street shooting).....made the 21 available for night shooting. The following 5 images should tell the story.
    all seem great, the first showing off the best dof effect.
    details of the flag on one of the latter post are incerdible, indeed.
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Most beautifull shots.
    Just as quick comPARISon a few shots with the poor-man's 21mm; the VC Color Scopar f4.

    First iso 160 + 100% crop

    Second iso 640 + 100%crop

    but .... no bokeh.
    Enjoy living, live to enjoy

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger,

    that 21/1.4 is impressive! If I still had an M8, it would be my new favorite lens

    And that shot of the Eiffel Tower (from the steps of Sacre Coeur?) is outstanding!
    Jack
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    The Eiffel Tower shot is from the edge of the Palais de Chaillot. Pretty common vantage point. I tried to get dead center and braced the M8 on the stone ledge . It took a few shots to get everything aligned. Night shooting in Paris is amazing ..this was after 10 30pm so almost all light is artificial.

    I put out a working set of 100 images ( still can t edit my work worth a darn) on my website. You can see how well matched the 21 is to the 35 and the 50 asph .

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    roger

    some great shots

    and Jack... you made a Paris person smile... I know leica lenses are good... but the steps of Sacre Couer are several miles from the eiffel tower.... and actually not even in line of sight :-)

    still I am a little concerned with rogers dog fetish :-)

    best wishes to all

    Kevin
    Last edited by kevinparis; 13th November 2009 at 10:34.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Excellent, Kevin. Here's another vantage point ...

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    yup he can't deny it was a photoshop job now :-)

    hope you had a good trip back

    a couple more shots from that morning here

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8058

    cheers

    Kevin

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Excellent, Kevin. Here's another vantage point ...
    A lot of help you guys were. Here I am knocked down and attacked by three dogs and you are snapping away!

    Kurt ..how about dogging in a little on the bald spot!

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger,

    I just finished looking through your Paris photos on your website - clicked the slideshow button and thoroughly enjoyed it. I look forward to seeing them again later on a bigger monitor.

    Mark

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Great stuff Roger. Looks like you're having a terrific summer of shooting.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger,
    Went through the complete Paris slideshow. Great images, pure pleasure from the first to the last frame.

    Jorgen

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Thanks to all for the kind comments. No question location and light really work to our advantage in Paris. It is surprising how many images were taken within a few hundred yards of the Cafe and bridge on Ille Saint Louis.

    This is the best location I have found to "set the stage" and wait for moments to happen. Lots of history of great street shooting right there as well. This is the location of some of the best HCB,Doisneau and Turnley work.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger,

    Self-editing is over-rated. I wouldn't cut out a single shot in your gallery. I think you really captured the essence of everyday life in Paris. Good balance of scenery, beauty, humanity, humor, romance, and sense of place. Truly excellent.

    David
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Nice to see this lens in action as I was seriously considering one. Love the dog shot esp. At this point though going to wait for the full frame M and stick with my 28 cron.

    Gotta love Paris for shooting. I was lucky enough to visit there twice last year. Here's a small gallery from my opening there last November, all M8.

    http://www.charlespeterson.net/paris/

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Nice to see this lens in action as I was seriously considering one. Love the dog shot esp. At this point though going to wait for the full frame M and stick with my 28 cron.

    Gotta love Paris for shooting. I was lucky enough to visit there twice last year. Here's a small gallery from my opening there last November, all M8.

    http://www.charlespeterson.net/paris/
    Nice images...the M is really made for this type of photography and the color in the low light images is impressive.

    I can t wait for the FF M9? ....I doubt we will see it in the next two years. A more likely possibility would be a 1.33 sensor with better ISO capabilities. I think that technology exists and would offer Leica a chance to sell a significant number of new bodies .

    Agree that a FF body would change my preferred street shooting setup. The 28FOV is as wide as most can go without needing to manage possible image distortion. And if I could get an improvement of just one stop in ISO performance ....I would go with the 28 summicron.

    I use the Zeiss 28/2 on my D700 as an alternative for street shooting and it works great .

    I need the better ISO performance way more than I need FF.

    The other issue with FF will be on the long end as now I use the 135apo to give me a 180FOV ..This is enough for anything on the street and gives the reach you might need around water,bridges ,buildings where you can t use your "foot zoom" to get closer.

    But overall the 21/1.4asph is a significant improvement over the options we had just a year ago.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Hey Roger

    Do you know the breed of these dogs? I believe they may be Golden Doodles (cross between Golden Retriever and Standard Poodle.) I have a large Golden Doodle who is about 80 lbs as his papa was a really large Standard. He is super smart and so desirous to please. He gets full ++++ votes from all who come into contact with him. Totally a love

    I went for the 24 Lux as that seemed to fit my shooting style better than the 21 plus I already have the 21 Elmarit. But now that I see what you are accomplishing I am doubting my decision for the 24. Probably best that I get out and really shoot with it and post the results to see how others feel. My humble guess is that these lenses are so superb that it doesn't matter. Just a few feet more or less to compose the shot you want.

    Great stuff Roger. As always you get the real deal results.

    I think we need another fast car/shooting trip. I vote for an Italian version of our German trip with Ferraris as the duty cars. Probably too expensive to make happen but a drive through Italy in one of these babies would be orgiastic! JMHO

    Woody

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Nice images...the M is really made for this type of photography and the color in the low light images is impressive.

    I can t wait for the FF M9? ....I doubt we will see it in the next two years. A more likely possibility would be a 1.33 sensor with better ISO capabilities. I think that technology exists and would offer Leica a chance to sell a significant number of new bodies .

    Agree that a FF body would change my preferred street shooting setup. The 28FOV is as wide as most can go without needing to manage possible image distortion. And if I could get an improvement of just one stop in ISO performance ....I would go with the 28 summicron.

    I use the Zeiss 28/2 on my D700 as an alternative for street shooting and it works great .

    I need the better ISO performance way more than I need FF.

    The other issue with FF will be on the long end as now I use the 135apo to give me a 180FOV ..This is enough for anything on the street and gives the reach you might need around water,bridges ,buildings where you can t use your "foot zoom" to get closer.

    But overall the 21/1.4asph is a significant improvement over the options we had just a year ago.
    Thanks Roger. hey, if I could truly afford one, the 21 Lux would be in bag now! But my wife would kill what with a new baby and house. So maybe two years out for an M9 wouldn't kill me. In the meantime I'll have to make do.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hey Roger

    Do you know the breed of these dogs? I believe they may be Golden Doodles (cross between Golden Retriever and Standard Poodle.) I have a large Golden Doodle who is about 80 lbs as his papa was a really large Standard. He is super smart and so desirous to please. He gets full ++++ votes from all who come into contact with him. Totally a love

    I went for the 24 Lux as that seemed to fit my shooting style better than the 21 plus I already have the 21 Elmarit. But now that I see what you are accomplishing I am doubting my decision for the 24. Probably best that I get out and really shoot with it and post the results to see how others feel. My humble guess is that these lenses are so superb that it doesn't matter. Just a few feet more or less to compose the shot you want.

    Great stuff Roger. As always you get the real deal results.

    I think we need another fast car/shooting trip. I vote for an Italian version of our German trip with Ferraris as the duty cars. Probably too expensive to make happen but a drive through Italy in one of these babies would be orgiastic! JMHO

    Woody
    Woody

    I don t know the breed of the dogs..but they are pretty small and look more like a cross between a terrier and a poodle. This dog was common in Paris and is the same as the images taken on the steps a few days before. If I look around I have almost the same image taken in Budapest. Its a really easy shot because the dogs typically pull toward you....so you prefocus and lower the camera right before they get to your spot. People seem to be a lot more difficult.

    Actually on the trip to Germany I enjoyed the bus part a lot more than the Porsche. You and I are the only two crazy enough to drive all day without a driver change(in retrospect not to bright?). If we could have timed the bus better to the ideal light. Travel mid day and have the mornings and evenings to shoot ..it would be ideal.

    The reason for the 21 over the 24 for me was all about framing without looking. You can see many shots were you know I didn t have my eye on the finder. The 21 at say 6-8 ft and I can shoot horizontal and not cut off the feet . As I increase the focal length .....I miss more ..so I would rather have a little extra in the frame. I have tried working with the 18 and sometimes I can get good composition but I am more likely to lose a good image due to distortion. This is all about street shooting for normal M travel photography either FOV is fine.

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Hi Roger,

    I just watched the slide show ... excellent images. My compliments.

    Kurt

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    The following may further illustrate the character of the new 21/1.4. Two sunny day shots followed by 100% sections. To my eye this lens has all the sharpness I need and is limited by the photographer,the sensor especially at 640 and my attempts to properly process the files. The micro contrast can be seen in the flag and the separation of tones in both the highlights and shadows. The final image is really how the lens is intended to differentiate itself in a low light situation. The lights come on at 10 30pm this time of year in Paris ....this image was Iso 640,f1.4,1/45 ..so its loss in IQ is due to ISO ,DOF and camera shake.

    The Jpegs lost a lot from the originals ...the 100% crops are much sharper than the illustration but you get the idea. Best comparison is similar to the 35/1.4asph rendering .
    Roger

    I agree with your assessment. My only issue is that I think the M8 is really an ISO 320 camera. I was shooting a bunch of indoor (gymnasium for my grandson doing gymnastics) at ISO 640 and frankly I think the noise is really obtrusive. So having luxes for the M8 is really worthwhile no matter the cost. Or shoot indoors or at night with a Nikon D3 or D700. Here there is no issue of course as these cameras can shoot at ISO 6400 with no sweat.

    Just MHO

    Woody

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Roger

    I agree with your assessment. My only issue is that I think the M8 is really an ISO 320 camera. I was shooting a bunch of indoor (gymnasium for my grandson doing gymnastics) at ISO 640 and frankly I think the noise is really obtrusive. So having luxes for the M8 is really worthwhile no matter the cost. Or shoot indoors or at night with a Nikon D3 or D700. Here there is no issue of course as these cameras can shoot at ISO 6400 with no sweat.

    Just MHO

    Woody
    Woody,

    I've noticed that ISO 640 shots at 100% view on the LCD look way, way worse/noisier than what the processed file actually looks like out of C1 (without fiddling at all with noise reduction settings). I have a lot of ISO 640 shots that I've printed at 20x30 and they look like ISO 200 negative film (at worst). Now, ISO 1250 is a different story.....

    Try to print up a ISO 640 shot and you'll see what I mean. Or, just look at some of the images that Roger has posted from Paris.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    I am sure others can kick in with more knowledge than I have...but I find 640 the limit of the M8 (at least with LR). At 640 I need a well exposed file ....no pulling back the shadows when using 640. This is what made the street corner so nice. The street lights would illuminate faces and this is where the noise is a killer (if you underexpose). I tried to use 320 as long as I could.

    I also use the Nikon d3/d700 primarily for flash and for sports. Last night I shot the Braves-Yankees game in Atlanta . You can use the Nikon s up to 6400 but really comparing apples to apples ...the images start to get blotchy between 800-1600 although 800 is pretty great . The drop off is slower with the Nikon s as well but even 1600 kills the resolution and dynamic range.

    Obviously processing in C1 or Nx and showing extra care in exposure would make a difference. But I think the differences in whats usable are often a result in the adequacy of the exposure for shadows ....you can see it in the image of the girl with the red umbrella (underexposed her face over a full stop) and the couple outside the Louis Vuitton store where the street lights illuminated the faces. Both have noise destroying resolution and tone but you can see the softness more in the umbrella shot..

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Woody,

    I've noticed that ISO 640 shots at 100% view on the LCD look way, way worse/noisier than what the processed file actually looks like out of C1 (without fiddling at all with noise reduction settings). I have a lot of ISO 640 shots that I've printed at 20x30 and they look like ISO 200 negative film (at worst). Now, ISO 1250 is a different story.....

    Try to print up a ISO 640 shot and you'll see what I mean. Or, just look at some of the images that Roger has posted from Paris.

    David
    Thanks David

    I will take a careful look at replicating what you described.

    Woody

    No matter what though, the luxes make the world an easier place to photograph. Sorry they cost so much but that is the price of destiny

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Striking images in your slideshow which was enjoyable to view.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Nice to see this lens in action as I was seriously considering one. Love the dog shot esp. At this point though going to wait for the full frame M and stick with my 28 cron.

    Gotta love Paris for shooting. I was lucky enough to visit there twice last year. Here's a small gallery from my opening there last November, all M8.

    http://www.charlespeterson.net/paris/
    True M work here. Outstanding.

    There is just something about the look that distinguishes itself, maybe the blacks are so ... well ... black. The eye of the photographer coupled with such a look. It seems to preserve the feel of real street photography ... gritty or something like that ... can't put it into words very well but it's there.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Roger

    I agree with your assessment. My only issue is that I think the M8 is really an ISO 320 camera. I was shooting a bunch of indoor (gymnasium for my grandson doing gymnastics) at ISO 640 and frankly I think the noise is really obtrusive. So having luxes for the M8 is really worthwhile no matter the cost. Or shoot indoors or at night with a Nikon D3 or D700. Here there is no issue of course as these cameras can shoot at ISO 6400 with no sweat.

    Just MHO

    Woody
    Woody, I think you should play with 640 more and learn its secrets. IMHO the M8 is a 640 camera ... and I rarely move below that for most shots. The only time I've experienced unacceptable noise is when trying to cheat the exposure. 640 preserves the Leica look the best IMO.

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Thanks for the advise Marc.

    Lately I have been shooting in some very dark places (Church, Gymnasium) and at 640 I am finding too much noise. Perhaps it is my exposures being too far to the left. Who knows.

    I will work on technique and see if I can't do better

    Woody

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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger looks like you where enjoying the dogs more than they where enjoying you. LOL

    Nice stuff folks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #41
    paisatge
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    very nice shots indeed.
    how do you find the lens in terms of blocking the viewfinder? or did you use an external viewfinder?

  42. #42
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Regarding blocking the viewfinder..I use an external finder (the Zeiss 25/28) . But honestly I wasn t looking thru the viewfinder at all for many of the photographs taken with the 21. For example ....I saw the 2 dogs coming and guessed there path. I focused on a spot on the ground . I lowered the camera to my shoe tops and waited ...when the dogs crossed the spot I took the picture. Same with the picture of the girl with the RED umbrella...taken from waist high..prefocused on a spot on the ground. None of the 1st five images where framed through the viewfinder.....even the eiffel tower...I braced the camera on a ledge ...took a few to guage the composition and then settled on what you see. I look down at the camera to see thats its level and line it up .

    I will use the external finder to frame the scene and then anticipate the location of the subject.....and then watch carefully for the moment.

    But to answer your question the 21 didn t bother me when focusing or when composing with an external finder. The only thing I wasn t thrilled about was the size(length) of the 21/1.4 .....I still have my 21/2.8asph and used it at the 4th of July celebration where I had exceptional light .

  43. #43
    paisatge
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    thanks for the info.
    I'm still deciding between the 21 and 24mm.....

  44. #44
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    Re: Paris ...21/1.4 on the streets

    Roger, great shots. Thanks for sharing them. Except I hate you for tempting me...

    Looks to me like this rivals the CZ Contax 21. Nice sharp corners. Not mushy like Canon wide angle lenses.

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