21-Elmarit - New Dilemma

[Terry]

I know people are raving about a couple of the newer Nikon zooms on the tele side, which are they? Are they "large"? There were some shots that would have been nice in Moab (like the La Sals) with longer lenses than a 90 or 135 on the M8. D300 plus one longer lens is less than the cost of a second M8 body.

 

[Mark Gowin]

...I would switch systems on a dime if i thought there was something better and anyone that really knows me has not only seen me do it 3 times but knows i am nuts enough to do it...

Yep, I can vouch for Guy on this one - he is nuts. :ROTFL: But, you can bet he is using the best equipment for the task at hand, whatever brand it is.

 

[gtmerideth]

Continuing the off topic trend the postman and the ups guy brought me a Pentax K20D and a ZK 50/1.4 today. Not a bad combination. Waiting for the ZK 100/2 for my macro work. The detail in the wheel is impressive. Not leica like though.
g.

 

[Digital Dude]

Oh, and I'd agree that the 21 elmarit is mighty fine lens ... and, it's available in chrome.

Kurt

I thought Leica discontinued the silver 21-El awhile back. Having just received my silver 50-Lux last night I can see why. Still, I prefer the silver but I can only imagine that a silver 21 would feel like a piece of depleted uranium.
Regards,:grin:

 

[Steen]

I know people are raving about a couple of the newer Nikon zooms on the tele side, which are they? Are they "large"? There were some shots that would have been nice in Moab (like the La Sals) with longer lenses than a 90 or 135 on the M8. D300 plus one longer lens is less than the cost of a second M8 body.

Here you can see the three new Very Long tele lenses. Even the price is large
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082310nikonsupertelelenses.asp#press
But they are not zoom lenses.

So you are probably thinking about these two new zoom lenses.
Those are the ones people have been raving so much about.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082311nikonafs14-24-70lenses.asp
But they are ultra wide and standard zooms respectively, not tele zooms.

Then there is this one, which is not even expensive.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06080901nikonafs70-300vrlens.asp
But that one was announced 1½ year ago. So it is probably not that one you have read about recently ?
I don't own it myself, but many over at the FM forum recommend it, fwiw.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/616731/0

Back to the 21-Elmarit.

 

[Terry]

Thanks Bondo....back to the 21.....

 

[Mitch Alland]

As others have said above the 21 Elmarit ASPH is a very good lens and I would prefer it to have a 21 rather than 28mm EFL, as in the following two Tri-X pictures:

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

[Chuck Jones]

Well, guess I mite as well toss my own experience into this ring. I've shot an "M" body for more years than I care to admit, along with just about every brand and model of digital to come down the pike. I've done the Nikon route, D1 & D1x. Then even did a Kodak 14N with it's Nikon mount. You want a long zoom? Find yourself a 70-200 VR-G used, and you will look no further. That lens, in my opinion, is an absolute classic in front of the right digital sensor. Fantastic lens. Far superior to the Canon 70-200 offering, especially wide open. Yea, it's big, but once you see what it can produce, the size and weight are easily tolerated. Real pretty. Try one and see for yourself, and you will save yourselves a big pile of bucks over the cost of a newer model, and give up NOTHING to them in image quality. With out looking "sterile" like so many newer lenses of a more modern vintage....

As to the 21 Leica "M" lens, well, I have two right now. My personal favorite is my 48 year old 21 SA on my M8. I also have the pre-ASPH 21 'El. For what I shoot, both of these lenses positively rock on full frame film (M6, M6 TTL, M7) as well as stunning on my M8. Hard to beat any of them, though again I personally prefer the look from the older lenses, even if they aren't as sharp. Sharp is way over rated also, in my book. You think that Cartier-Bresson gave a hoot about sharp? His magic was the geometry, not the lens resolution.... In fact, I don't believe I have ever seen a really sharp Bresson image in a print.

I have absolutely NO inclination what so ever that all of the Leica "M" lenses won't function just fine on a full frame "M" body. What they don't fix with software as long as your lenses are coded you won't mind one bit. And if you do, use one of the many software packages yourself to correct whatever doesn't please you. The game in digital now, as it was in the old film days, is half capture, and half post processing. That is why Jack and Guy go to such great lengths in their workshops to teach both. One without the other is only getting you half way there.....

The 21mm focal length is very much about the field of view and perspective. With the signature "look." You want ultra sharp? Use a 90 f2, or my personal favorite for sharp, the 24mm ASPH. But then, I shoot mostly people, and with the wider angle lenses. That 24mm ASPH is probably the sharpest lens in the M lineup as far as overall resolving power stopped down one or two stops. With incredible micro contrast, I mite add.

For myself, I see no point at all in waiting to buy a lens that you would use now if you can afford it. How many good images are you going to pass up today, just to buy into someone's marketing hype telling you to just wait and see what is coming down the road tomorrow? 200? 500? Hard to say, as that same hype doesn't tell you a darn thing about what will actually show up. I figure if it does the job I need to do today, then I have a winner with whatever is here right now. I try and take care of my needs today, and let tomorrow bring whatever it will. One thing I can guarantee you, whatever comes tomorrow is going to be three things. Different than you expect today, a whole lot more expensive than what you can pickup a used 21mm for right now, and way too late in coming to help you make beautiful images over the next year. Just my own opinion, others probably feel differently about it.

 

[Jack]

Well said Chuck!

Especially the point about not waiting to buy a lens you would use right now: great images rarely stick around very long

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well the nice thing as the three of us know from testing the 21mm is they each have a unique signature to them.

 

[scott]

Well the nice thing as the three of us know from testing the 21mm is they each have a unique signature to them.

I attended the Rochester LHSA event last October and was blown away by black and white jazz photos taken by Sy Johnson, a famous jazz musician and writer from the 60's 70's era who lives in New York City. He had some tremendous tri-x photos taken with early Leicas and the 21 lens from that era. He raved about that lens as being his favourite for portraits on stage for his type of work.
I use an 21 ASPH. black lens on my M8 and it's a beauty of a combination I think. I've got the black lens, since I do own a 35, 50 and 90 that are chrome. I think the weight savings on the black 21 means a lot when you are shooting that particular lens much of the time. I find the chrome lenses are heavy, but nice to look at!

Regarding the D300, I've been using one for two months now and find it a fantastic camera with wonderful files. I do a lot of interior photos of houses and find it great for that as well as landscape work and panorama work I like to do. I sold a Nikon D2X and was tired of using that body. It's too big to really enjoy long term in my mind. The D300 weight and feel is something I am enjoying very much compared to the larger bodies. I know the D3 is a super camera, but I'm just tired of lugging that size of body around all the time. You won't regret a D300 Guy!

Scott

 

[Digital Dude]

Thanks again for all these reassuring comments. Having just used my new 50-lux, I’m just now gaining some perspective. It’s really hard to measure performance when you start out with only one lens; in my case, it was the 28-cron. I can now see how the frame lines can lead one astray. Also, I can begin to understand the potential of the 21. I hate to admit that I may have bit off more than I can chew with the M8. There is soOoo much to learn compared to a DSLR. My daughter’s Nikon will practically focus spot-on when you’re sneezing while tripping over a bolder in the rain.
Regards,

 

[KurtKamka]

Hi Daniel,

You can find the latest chrome 21 elmarits in a few places ... you just need to search at some of the smaller dealers. It is heavier than the black version, but not enough that it bothers me. Like the 50 (you already have) it feels indestructible.

As far as shooting the M8 goes ...

Just try a little zen philosophy and simply shoot what feels good/interesting/right. You'd be amazed at where it will lead you. Most of the time, I simply use aperture priority (A) on the camera and just worry about f-stop. And, since Leica M glass is so good wide-open, you have a lot of f-stop choices available to use. Although I prefer manual focus, I'm not afraid to let the camera do its thing ... all you have to do is focus and compose.

Also, if you find that there is something that you enjoy photographing most, start there. When you are in your comfort zone, it's easy to forget about all of the mechanics of shooting.

 

[Digital Dude]

Indestructible is a good analogy. Heck, when I saw the shipping weight/charges I said to myself; what a rip-off. I didn’t pay much attention to the specifications of the 50-lux. Although when I first held it in my hands I was shocked! Yes, the silver 21 would look beautiful although I don’t have any idea what it actually weighs. Anyway, I have some time before having the resources to actually buy it.
Regards,

 

[Terry]

Indestructible is a good analogy. Heck, when I saw the shipping weight/charges I said to myself; what a rip-off. I didn’t pay much attention to the specifications of the 50-lux. Although when I first held it in my hands I was shocked! Yes, the silver 21 would look beautiful although I don’t have any idea what it actually weighs. Anyway, I have some time before having the resources to actually buy it.
Regards,

300g black and 415g chrome

http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2177.html

 

[Digital Dude]

Thanks! Well that’s a significant difference. Still, if the timing were right and I found one in near pristine condition and coded, it might persuade me.
Regards,

 

[okram]

I have one. But I am not selling

I am thinking about changing it for 75Lux, when if FF arrives....

 

[Michael B. Elmer]

Yesterday I received from Mr. Meister in Hamburg, Germany, my new Leica 21/28 asph together with a almost 50 years old and still like new SLOOZ 2.8 cm finder in black painted metal. A wonderful combination. The 21 mm lens is a wonderful piece of glass and I had almost forgot how nice a perspective a 28 mm. lens (as it is on the m8) gives you - it was almost my standard on the M6 and the 24 and 21 mm lenses will have to fight for the status as the body cap for my M8.

I also have the socalled Frankenfinder but honestly the SLOOZ is much more elegant and much easier to use (and also more expensive to acquire) , so the Frankenfinder will probably only be used with my WATE in the 16 or 18 mm position.

I used to have lenses in different finishes, such as titanium and black paint. However, after almost 50 years with Leicas I have now learned that one should always stick to the standard black finish of the lenses which - unlike titanium, black paint and chrome lenses - can be combined with cameras in all sorts of finishings.

 

[chrism]

I have been giving a lot of thought to the Elmarit 21 lately. Out of my nine lenses I have boiled them down to a carrying kit that suits me of just three. They are the CV Color Skopar 21/4, Lux 35 and Summarit 75. I have just sold a spare 28 Cron (have a coded version now) and 50 Cron (have the Lux) and can put the proceeds towards a 21 Elmarit. The trouble is, I rather like the CV 21! It is much smaller and lighter than the Elmarit, and if I use the edges of the viewfinder I don't really need an external viewfinder most of the time (I use a CV 28mm when I do - very bright and clear). No external viewfinder means the M8 and CV21 can go in a coat pocket, which is a great thing for walking round. The other thing I like about the CV is the short throw of the focussing lever, which makes it very easy and quick to focus. It is the LTM version, so I can have it coded with an LT-M8 adaptor. I have looked at the comparative photos in Sean Reid's review of 21mm lenses and can accept the slight fall off in definition at the edges. The Elmarit would give me one stop more speed, but 2.8 still isn't wide enough to really allow the narrow depth of field photos for which we love Leica lenses - and with a wide I have to admit there isn't so much point in having a beautifully focussed object surrounded by a very large area of blur (if the background is large and OOF I'm likely to crop some of it out at least).
But that old Leica-lust is still there.....
Can I justify the expense, size and weight for one stop more speed and crisper edges?

Chris

 

[Maggie O]

Chris, not all examples of the CV 21 LTM have that fall off at the edges. I know that mine doesn't.

I would, however, like a faster 21.