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Thread: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    I'm not much for speculation, but something is in the air regarding the M8. It looks like that something must be around the corner as a few M8/M8.2s have hit the B&S forum from folks who are big Leica fans that I'm certain wouldn't changing allegiances anytime soon.

    Anyone care to share?

    Kurt

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Kurt I get the same feeling. I text my Leica Sales Manager to ask if there was any good M8 deals to be had. he replied that they have no stock. I would have expected him to suggest getting an M8.2 but his message just stopped there. I know there's something around the corner.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Well, there was a theory floating around that one of the reasons the R10 project was canned was so that Leica could focus their resources on the next M since that product line represents a revenue stream of far greater potential.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Hi Kurt
    Well, I don't know - I'm thinking about selling one of my two M8 bodies, but it's because I'm using the Olympus Pen a lot, and it makes a decent enough 'back-up' for an M8.

    I would think that might cover quite a lot of other people around here as well.

    But . . . what do I know?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    I'm enjoying my Sony and micro 4/3 set up and wasn't using the M8 so it went up for sale.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Kurt,

    My thought exactly. When a GetDPI insider sells a camera, that immediately sets off an alarm. It's as if Bill Gates sold ten billion dollars in Microsoft stock.

    Steve

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    When Stefan Daniels recently talked to a group in Germany he all but guaranteed there would be a FF M9. And further, he indicated it could be on the market around the end of 09. I would bet it is going to be the showpiece of Photokina 2010!

    Woody

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    So perhaps in the interrum, an M8.3 with 17MP cropped sensor with improved noise performance to be continued alongside the M9 once it's released?

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Thanks everyone, for the comments. I'd be thrilled with a FF M9, but would also be very excited with any extra ISO performance that could be gained...hopefully, we'll hear something sooner than later.

    Kurt

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    I am considering selling my M8 and lenses IF the S2 price is suitable to me. Others may be like me - looking to raise funds to buy something else.

    If the S2 price is too high for me, then I may still sell my M8, but keep my M lenses for a future full frame M. I have a Canon system with a wide range of lenses that will tide me over for a while and I may even get a 5D Mark II if I can't afford the S2.

    Of course my preference is that Leica price the S2 at a point I can afford.

    Mark

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    There is plenty to speculate on in this question. How can Leica be in anything other than dire financial shape? They were struggling before the worldwide recession. They are working 4 days a week in Solms and closed the Portugal plant before the normal slow down. They canceled the R program outright . The S2 is a costly attempt to reposition the product line . They have a new plant in wetzler coming on line soon?

    Only two areas hold much promise(from a revenue standpoint)....the alliance with Panasonic and the future M.

    The future M will not be FF. (IMHO) ...want to bet? Leica admitted that they have not solved the flange to sensor issue. If the M9 was FF and had +1 or 2EV performance ..they would be still backordered. So if you had a product that could revitalize your core customers like a FF M9 .....enough on that one. The real opportunity is for a M8.3 ...another 1.33 sensor but with +1-2 EV. An M8 that could shoot at 1600 with decent quality . The technology exists and if the sensor size is the same ..it has a chance of being brought to market. Leica doesn t have time to go with a wish and a hope.

    Once Leica announces a new M8 .....sales of existing product will stop not slow but stop. Used values will be less than 50% of new. Dealers can t be too excited about this and Leica can ill afford to provide funding to smooth the decline in value. My guess is that dealers are backing away from the whole issue.

    This has nothing to do with Getdpi members selling equipment. As a lot (I am including myself) we are habitual equipment buyers . Lots of neat new toys out there....the new E-P1,GH1 and A900 claimed a lot of $$$ this year. Look at the flow.....in 2007 (2 years ago) it was all M8 s (and this followed the alternative glass and DMR trends)..then it was the D3/D700, then a detour into MF land(this was the equivalent of a meltdown in capital) and then the A900 with some splintering into the G1 and the E-P1. The 5DII is also claiming some members .

    The sale of M8s is to build up some funds to fuel the GAS. I sure hope Leica is focused on an M8.3 otherwise ....

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    I think its too easy to read what you want into peoples actions,some here seem to see conspiracy around every corner,its more likely that the kudos of a leica m is hardly worth the cost when seen against the point and shoot ease of use of an ep1.A good backup to a M8,dont follow that,the sensor is half the size as is the digital range.We should all be content with what suits us,if youre taking better snaps with an ep1 then stick with it,leave the rangefinders to the hairshirt brigade.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    There was a posting a short while ago about the Leica strategy, as presented by Stefan Daniels at a gathering in Germany. The salient points have been listed, and the original is available for viewing. Here is the GetDPI posting: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8490

    Basically, the M8/M8.2 line will no longer be upgraded, as it does nothing to help sales of any future models. The M9 is still a ways off, but Leica says they are working on it. Does this mean there will be something like an M8.3? Well, that conclusion is not obvious....for or against, based on what is said. Personally, I kinda doubt that Leica will be going down that path (M8.3, M8.4, etc.), but one never knows until it is real. My bet is that resources are presently going into the S-system right now to get it out the door, and ready to support. I would also not read too much into anybody buying or selling gear here or anyplace else. Some folks flip gear all the time, others wait for the best deals, others just move on to other things.

    LJ

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    A good backup to a M8,dont follow that,the sensor is half the size as is the digital range.We should all be content with what suits us,if youre taking better snaps with an ep1 then stick with it,leave the rangefinders to the hairshirt brigade.
    I think you're talking to me?
    Well, I can have two M8's in a bag, or an M8 and an e-p1, I can use the M lenses on the E-P1, and it's good for close up and macro. I don't take better snaps with the e-p1, I take better snaps with the M8.

    So, whereas 3 months ago I either took the A900 with zeiss lenses, or I took a small bag with two M8's (or sometimes both, for example at a wedding). Now I take either the A900, or a small bag with an M8 and a pen.

    Makes sense to me, and what's hair shirt about a rangefinder compared to an insistence on using film!

    Just this guy you know

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    I wouldn't worry about the crop of the M9, the issue is IR. Notice the magic date in the second week of September? A marketeers dream - who knows?
    JAAP
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Jono,youre a professional,its different for us poor amateurs who really have to make do with one system.

    Part of my insistence for using film is based around poverty and a good deal on anti-dandruff shampoo I got a few years ago.When it runs out Im game for anything!

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    There was a posting a short while ago about the Leica strategy, as presented by Stefan Daniels at a gathering in Germany. The salient points have been listed, and the original is available for viewing. Here is the GetDPI posting: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8490

    Basically, the M8/M8.2 line will no longer be upgraded, as it does nothing to help sales of any future models. The M9 is still a ways off, but Leica says they are working on it. Does this mean there will be something like an M8.3? Well, that conclusion is not obvious....for or against, based on what is said. Personally, I kinda doubt that Leica will be going down that path (M8.3, M8.4, etc.), but one never knows until it is real. My bet is that resources are presently going into the S-system right now to get it out the door, and ready to support. I would also not read too much into anybody buying or selling gear here or anyplace else. Some folks flip gear all the time, others wait for the best deals, others just move on to other things.

    LJ
    There was another section of the notes from the discussion..where he was asked about the status of the M9(assumed to be a FF sensor) . He indicates that while this will be the priority after the S2 and some progress has been made.......significant challenges still exist. He also indicated that should the FF sensor bog down that an interim 1.3 sensor product may make sense. Leica could choose to call it the M9 .

    But really in today s market ..you can t really rely on much of what he might be speculating upon.

    You are correct that "no one has the crystal ball" and that the trading of equipment is just part of the GetDpi culture rather than anticipation of new things from Leica.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    I wouldn't worry about the crop of the M9, the issue is IR. Notice the magic date in the second week of September? A marketeers dream - who knows?
    You guys worry about too many things...

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    Senior Member Peter Klein's Avatar
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Part of my insistence for using film is based around poverty and a good deal on anti-dandruff shampoo I got a few years ago.When it runs out Im game for anything!
    Anti-dandruff shampoo? Hmm. Most contain a selenium compound. Do you tone your prints?

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Yet another plus,..thankyou Peter.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    CAMERA SPECULATING IN THE digital era is the norm . Sell while you can get dollars before the new models come out. I just saw a canon insider selling his 1ds mk111 over at LL days after I sold mine. It made me wonder. I am sure the m9 will come out in a year or so. Am I selling my m8 no I can live without my 1ds mk111 as I have a 5d mk 11 and though not a camera for action the 5d compared to the 1ds I can make it work. As much as I have problems with the m8 I cannot live with out it. So I am keeping and will take a big hit at upgrade time.

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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Jono,youre a professional,its different for us poor amateurs who really have to make do with one system.
    Hi Neil
    I'm not professional . . . at least, not in the 'normal' sense of the word. I'm just fantastically wealthy, so I can afford what I want

    On the other hand, I don't play golf, I don't have boats, my car is three years old and I do work quite hard. Photography is my extravagance. I think someone around here defined the term 'gentleman photographer' . . . I'm not really a gentleman, but the principle fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Part of my insistence for using film is based around poverty and a good deal on anti-dandruff shampoo I got a few years ago.When it runs out Im game for anything!
    I didn't think people with hair like yours got dandruff? (I certainly don't, but I did get a job lot of foot cream a few years ago)

    Just this guy you know

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    nei1
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    Re: What's up with the M8/M8.2?

    Jono ,Im delighted youre wealthy,should happen to all the nice people.

    I was actually making an obtuse reference to the scratchy hair shirt with the shampoo being a slight help for its scratchiness but I do understand the mistake,my writing is terrible.Nothing wrong with a good head of celtic curls on anyone though,.........best to you,Neil.

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