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Thread: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering image

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    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering image

    I'm still testing my M8 using different settings in different lighting conditions, and tonight I've been using ISO 1250 and 2500 for low light shots. I notice in almost all my images, relatively faint horizontal banding covering the entire image. However, when the image is viewed at 100%, the faint horizontal banding diminishes, or becomes quite unnoticeable.

    Is this one of the the M8 problems, like the greenish banding, that Leica hasn't or can't correct yet (whatever)?

    Or is this an indicator that my M8 may require repair? Would someone help me understand what I'm noticing in my high ISO images?

    Your input is appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Daniel
    Last edited by Daniel; 30th November 2009 at 17:15.

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    If it disappears when you zoom in, it suggests to me that it is your monitor that produces moire on the noise of the image rather than the camera. I cannot check it here, as I am at my work on a grotty screen, but other members can have a look.
    Last edited by jaapv; 10th March 2008 at 01:10.
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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    Quote Originally Posted by thegrumpymonk View Post
    I'm still testing my M8 using different settings in different lighting conditions, and tonight I've been using ISO 1250 and 2500 for low light shots. I notice in almost all my images, relatively faint horizontal banding covering the entire image. However, when the image is viewed at 100%, the faint horizontal banding diminishes, or becomes quite unnoticeable.

    Is this one of the the M8 problems, like the greenish banding, that Leica hasn't or can't correct yet (whatever)?

    Or is this an indicator that my M8 may require repair? Would someone help me understand what I'm noticing in my high ISO images?

    Your input is appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Daniel
    Hi Daniel
    I must say, I can't see anything on those images (24" imac display). Of course, banding is a common problem with high ISO for all cameras, but I think I agree with jaap, it sounds like a combination of your monitor and the resolution (of course, if you're looking with photoshop that does funny things with some magnifications).

    Just this guy you know

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    hgmoore
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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    I can see the banding in the crop views.

    Doubt if it would be a problem in prints or normally sized web reductions.

    Harvey

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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    FWIW, I have found that 640 pushed one, two or even three stops is preferable noise-wise to the 1250 or 2500 setting itself. IOW, under expose 640 by 1, 2 (or even 3) stops, then push the file by that amount in the raw converter to gain back the ISO.

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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    Are the crops actual crops or screen captures of your 100% view? I would suggest that what you are seeing is the noise prior to your raw converter applying the noise correction. For example, hot pixels will appear at 100% in Lightroom and then it maps them out with the noise reduction when you convert the RAW to a tiff or Jpeg.

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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    I agree with Harvey and Jack. I have seen the same issues at those ISOs on my M8, viewing on a variety of monitors at different sizes and resolution. I think the banding is real. However, unless it is really obvious, most of it will not show up in print. Jack's suggestion to underexpose at a lower ISO seems to work for my stuff also. The M8 files seem to have a lot of latitude to handle underexposure, but also seem really prone to more artifacts and this sort of banding at higher ISO settings in-camera. I have not quite understood what is going on there, but I do see similar problems and workarounds.

    LJ

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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    FWIW, I have found that 640 pushed one, two or even three stops is preferable noise-wise to the 1250 or 2500 setting itself. IOW, under expose 640 by 1, 2 (or even 3) stops, then push the file by that amount in the raw converter to gain back the ISO.

    Best,
    That is symptomatic of amplifiers with inadequate signal to noise ratio. Sometimes this sort of thing can be related to even the noise level on the internal power supply. I wonder if the sensor feeds the amps with a differential output? That is a decent and traditional way of reducing noise.
    -bob

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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    I can only add another data point- I can't see any lines in the photos on my 17" MacBook Pro.

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    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: QUESTION: High ISO 1250 & 2500 images showing faint horizontal banding covering i

    i took these pictures in black and white jpeg, and the 100 percent crops were not screen captures.

    i moved these same images to my macbook (screen calibrated also), and i can't quite notice the horizontal banding unless i REALLY hunt for it. so, as suggested, this faint horizontal banding is a result of a combination of other factors – moire as a result of monitor resolution and different image display sizes (25, 33, 50, 100 percent).

    i made a few test prints last night, and, fortunately, there is not even a faint hint of banding. since its not manifested in the print i'm comfortable to consider this resolved, or a non-issue.

    thank you very much everyone for your input. you ALL were VERY helpful.

    kind regards,

    daniel
    Last edited by Daniel; 11th March 2008 at 07:37.

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