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Thread: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

  1. #51
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Shot at F4 Mark. I'm really consider selling my 90 cron though for the Summarit and i will tell you why , focusing. The cron is a beauty but I shoot lots of events with the 90 cron and main reason I have it but i miss sometimes and the 90 sum i don't miss at all. It has me wondering because here i can't afford to miss a shot
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Guy, why don't you set the Cron to f/2.4 and see how you get along? I cannot imagine that the lenses are different to focus; it is the same rangefinder! It must be the DOF.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Not so sure it is that , more in the focusing ring the Summarit just seems to snap in better. I have a trade in the works and just need to decide to pull the trigger. I have the 75 lux for the soft look the 90mm is a podium lens for me with events and here i just can't miss much.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #54
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    I bought a Sumarit yesterday LOLOLOL! Here is my initial reaction to the focus thing Guy is talking about --- it's real!

    What I believe is it's the focus throw. The Summarit has a shorter focus throw and this in turn means faster moving RF patches when focusing. Normally this equates to less granularity in fine focus which one would infer meant less precision. However in use, at least on the M8, the RF patch just snaps in and out more visibly with the Summarit and it's easier to get aligned. I shot mine last night in low light conditions wide open, comparing it to my 90 Cron at f2.5. This was low inside lighting, hand-held at between 1/45th and 1/60th, most subjects in the 2 to 5 meter range, the sweet spot where I personally use my 90 the most.

    Bottom line was I nailed every focus with the Summarit --- well not nailed, but at least every image was focused more than closely enough for that light level hand-held imaging purposes. By contrast, I missed focus on about 50% of the Cron shots by enough the images showed it at critical points.

    I am going to do more precise testing today off a tripod...
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  5. #55
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    LOL . See i was not pulling your leg. i am going to go for the trade and just do it today.I just have to have my 90 nail it every time for what i am using it mostly for. Client satisfaction decision. There is my business case. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Guy or Jack, do you have a photo which compares the size between the 90mm Summarit and 90mm Cron? The small size of the 75mm Summarit surprised me when I first opened the box. I immediately thought of the 50 Summilux in terms of size. If the 90mm Summarit is considerably smaller and lighter, then that would be a huge consideration for me. I only shoot my 90mm Cron at f2 when absolutely needed for low light. Otherwise, i shoot it at f2.8 to f4.0 just to give myself some margin of error (bigger DOF) in focusing.

    EDIT: By the way, the 75mm Summarit focus throw from minimum distance to infinity is slightly less than 90 degrees

  7. #57
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Mark I think there in the Ugly test thread the size comparisions
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Thanks Guy, you were correct. Somehow I missed the size comparison in the ugly test first time around. Looking at the comparison photo reminded me of another feature I liked about the 75 Summarit which is also on the 90 Summarit and that is the large wide focus ring.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    I just got a note from Christian on another matter than told him never to send me lenses again, i wind up buying them. ROTFLMAO

    I'm sure he is having a good laugh and my dollar expense. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Well a done deal . LOL anyone want to trade a 55 IR for a 46mm. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #61
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Thought I'd follow up with my 90 Summarit test results, comparing directly to my 90 Cron AA...

    First off, getting two identical images from each, both perfectly focused is almost impossible --- or at least requires more work than I'm willing to give it. LOL! However, I was able to get two very similar image where both lenses were in focus at similar enough points to generate a meaningful comparison. Here's my summary:

    Resolution and Contrast: Comparing the lenses at f2.5, the Cron clearly exhibits more contrast, though I wouldn't call the Summarit's contrast bad by any stretch, just lower. As respects resolution, the Cron may be a slight tad sharper in the center, though it's difficult to say for certain given it's higher contrast. But the fact is they are close. Similar results were seen at f2.8. By f3.5 the difference between the two lenses diminishes a bit, though follows the same trend. By f4 they are essentially identical in resolution, though the Cron maintains a slight contrast advantage.

    Ergonomics: This is mostly academic and will vary according to each individuals preferences. That said, here is what I think. The Summarit's size gives it an ergonomic advantage, and the focus ring and aperture ring are conveniently placed and spaced. By contrast, the Cron's aperture ring is maybe a bit too close to the focus ring for my fat fingers. The Summarit is lighter and more compact, but honestly not huge differences, noticeable for sure though. However, many will prefer the added weight of the Cron for increased inertia/stability while handholding at lower shutter speeds. Toss up here... Have to admit the rubber ring on the Summarit does feel "cheaper" than the knurled metal ring on the Cron, though it does provide a nice grip. Another toss-up IMO. Focus throw --- the Summarit's is much faster at about 90 degrees of focus ring twist to get from 1 meter to Infinity. With the Cron, you are about 150 degrees of twist to cover the same range. More twist equal finer granularity equal more fine precision in critical focus; faster twist equal faster focusing in action situations. Pay your money and take your choice.

    So to answer which one I am keeping, I need to qualify my reasoning. If I used the 90 focal length a lot, I would possibly keep both lenses. I like the imaging characteristics of the Cron and of course it is a phenomenal performer wide open at f2. F2 gives a paper-thin DoF, more so than f2.5, so for isolation's its tough to beat. Now let's discuss cost. The fact is a good used Cron AA is only a few hundred more than a new Summarit, and I would not expect to see many second hand Summarits at greatly reduced costs any time soon. So you get outstanding performance and an extra half stop for a couple hundred bucks. Makes the Cron tough to beat.

    On the other hand, I don't use the 90 that often, and when I do it is usually hand held, isolating something from the environment --- and I usually use at least f2.8 to insure the subject falls within the focused DoF. Which gets down to one more factor --- focus throw. For the way I use the 90, I simply prefer the shorter throw; I can focus faster with it and most of the time am within that limited DoF area with the Summarit. It's a tough call, but due to the smaller size, the Summarit is likely to be in my bag when I want it, so that's the one I've decided to keep.

    My Cron is for sale in the B&S section.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  12. #62
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    My reason is also the shorter throw that put me over the edge.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Two for two in keeping the lens. I find this result very interesting. Did you get the leica hood? Where does the hood screw into? Is there a simple way to store it in your bag? Lens cap with hood?

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Mutt and Jeff we both went down the river and bought the 90 Summarits. Terry there are no hoods yet and not sure what the heck they even look like. I may just use a metal screw in like the 28mm. BTW i have a extra one for you and the 28 if you need it, just found one in a box. I'm waiting to get more info on the hoods , if anyone can point me in that direction that would be handy but I know a 46mm will screw into the filter if all else fails.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Found this
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Guy, Here is some info on the hoods, last page:
    http://www.umbrastudio.net/html/assets/pdf/summarit.pdf

    Hood for the 35 & 50 Leica Order No. 12459
    Hood for the 75 & 90 Leica Order No. 12460

    Link for B&H Summarit 90 Hood (Out of Stock though):
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...arch&Q=*&bhs=t

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    LOL I just sent that to you while you were posting

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Mutt and Jeff we both went down the river
    Oh man Bud... Now we're never gonna live this one down

    ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Jack
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Two for two in keeping the lens. I find this result very interesting. Did you get the leica hood? Where does the hood screw into? Is there a simple way to store it in your bag? Lens cap with hood?
    Hi Terry!

    The lens is pretty sweet for what it is. Keep in mind both of us have the 75 Lux. Frankly, the 75 and 90 are really close in focal length even after the 1.3 crop --- 75 is like 100mm while the 90 is 120. Not a lot of difference when you get right down to it, so it made sense to opt for a smaller lighter version on one, and the Summarit only gives up a 1/2 stop to the Cron for the weight gain; stop and a half with the 75's...

    On the hood, I just ordered one of the HeavyStar metal screw ins off ebay. For as little as they cost, I like them a lot. I have one on my 21, 28 and 50, and store my lenses in my bag with the hoods mounted, no caps. The rigid metal hoods protect the front element so caps aren't really necessary --- plus the lenses are ready to shoot with quickly. A short blast of canned air every evening keeps the front elements free of scuz build-up.

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Jack in my searching for hoods i found you a hood for your 12mm and Terry I found you one for your 28 cron. Merry Christmas early.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    My decision was based on the 75 is my portrait lens and i simple don't miss focus ever with the 75mm lux don't ask me why i just don't , i could not say that for the 90 cron and i like the short throw of the 90 summarit and i just did not miss with it. These lenses are so close in focal length i would rather they be differnt styles and for event work the 75 is to close to the podium so the 90 is a must.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  22. #72
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    BTW i asked leica if they can send a 75 Summarit to me when one becomes available since I did not get a chance to try it the first time, hopefully that will be soon.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  23. #73
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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Does anyone know if there are any Summarit hoods available , i want one for the 90mm. More money down the black hole
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Guy, Although this would not meet the compact travel requirement, to be fair you should at least test the Elcan 90mm f/1.0 against the Summarit. After all, it is a Mandler design!

    Some links:
    http://www.arsenal-photo.hk/ge/produ...e=&sort=&dir=#

    http://auction.igavel.com/Bidding.ta...5DE9043CBE65A/

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    There goes the rangefinder view I don't understand exactly how anyone but the infinity or nothing folks would use that. Minimal depth of field, only one sharp distance (apart from infinity) and no way to know where it is...
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Summarit Series 35,50, 90 Sharpness Test

    Have to sell both cars for that one. WOW that has a price tag
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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